[waterhog]

Osborne hits the poorest hardest - is this gene-aside to clear off the poor ? 06.12.12

i do believe in pushing,
because the best you can inspire,
but this government is provoking,
they really are stoking a mass fire.
did they not learn,
have the "London riots" been forgotten,
because targeting people on benefits,
is discrimination and this act is rotten.
if you are in a job,
and the pay does not meet what is out going,
you are going to struggle,
and your anger will be growing.
its ok for all conservatives,
there is not a problem if the "Liberals" disagree,
because those that are squeezing,
really do have there own "MP" money tree.
after April you will see,
your money will get you less,
Edd Balls may have predicted this,
but Labor had there chance and it was no bless.
everyone needs to join,
we all need to protest because it is mass gen-aside,
i will lay my cards out,
come April, i predict a parent and young ones will do a family sue-aside.

( considering how tough things are getting, as of today and Osbornes new policy's 06.12.12 he and the conservatives have pushed through, i can only think things are going to get a whole lot worse. and i even predict a family doing a very desperate thing as of not being able to cope. this can not be right. and considering we are meant to one of the leading
nations and help other country's out that are struggling - i really feel we need a mass shake up - and yes this means getting the conservatives out as soon as possible but like i say in my poem - who can offer us what we need as we can all remember labor and there let down. have you got any suggestion on how to deal with the current financial worry's this
country is facing ? could you be the next PM ?)

if anyone gets my last poem mixed up with this i would like to remind you that this george poem is about the one in politics and not the single - so take that - i mean WHAM.

[Kizzy]

Another great topic joe, yep come april there will be mass panic up and down the country.
It's going to have a huge impact on society, it seems like you say they are hellbent on fragmenting the whole of the UK...

[joeysteele]

I largely agree with your stance on this one.

I really am fed up of seeing the sledgehammer being wielded against the weakest and poorest in society, even more so against the vulnerable too.
I am in favour of benefit reform and rooting out anyone claiming benefits fraudulently or not being entitled to some benefits they get but the way this Govt has gone about this is near obsessional and wrong as well as being costly too.

I personally agree with the 1% rise cap on benefit payments but I am totally opposed to things such as the so called 'bedroom tax' coming in.
It has to be totally wrong and unjustified to have given a secure tenancy to someone as to a house,who then in time finds themselves on a low income or too ill to work, who has been told the Govt decrees they must have something like £130/140 a week to live on and cover bills but in addition are entitled to full housing benefit and full council tax rebate.
For them to only then come along and say via a form of political and financial levering that to stay in that house, they are going to remove funds from their housing benefit and council tax rebate which they will then have to find from the funds they were told they had to have to live on and cover other bills.

That to me is a total disgrace and my fury at the Lib Dems for supporting these measures knows no bounds.
I have been as part of my Uni work, been involved with people on these issues who are going to suffer massively.
A man of 63, suffering from early dementia has lived in Council housing since he was born, actuallyin the house he still lives in but now living alone.
Because he has 2 bedrooms unoccupied by nobody living there with him, he will now have to find around £90 every month from April next year to stay in that house.He will also have deductions to his council tax rebate too.

In the UK in the 21st century to hear of that even being thought of by any Govt infuriates me. This bedroom tax likely will and I hope it does, become this Coalitions Govts 'poll tax'.

The more I learn as to this cowardly attack on the weakest,poorest and most vulnerable in society just makes me really dismayed and more angry at this Govt which actually seems to have a death wish as to the next election anyway as to both the parties in it.

In this all together they say, I see little evidence of that the more I find myself involved with those being savaged at the bottom end of the scale by this heartless Govt.

Their idea to reform welfare and benefits are right, the means they have used,in my opinion anyway, bring shame to any decency.

[Kizzy]

What an astute observation, It highlights one issue that the government is getting very wrong.
The social housing lists are creaking and families are crying out for homes, what can be done?
Would single vulnerable occupants of 2/3 bed houses consider an assisted move to local 1 bed ground floor sheltered accomodation?
low level prefabs could be constructed for those who are at present struggling alone, to me it would be an ideal way of protecting the vulnerable in our society...
It would free up affordable family properties and save money by focusing the building on much smaller properties.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

What an astute observation, It highlights one issue that the government is getting very wrong.
The social housing lists are creaking and families are crying out for homes, what can be done?
Would single vulnerable occupants of 2/3 bed houses consider an assisted move to local 1 bed ground floor sheltered accomodation?
low level prefabs could be constructed for those who are at present struggling alone, to me it would be an ideal way of protecting the vulnerable in our society...
It would free up affordable family properties and save money by focusing the building on much smaller properties.

Indeed,they are options,for some as there isn't enough available smaller housing to accommodate the people they want out of the homes they now occupy.

Of course a building programme as to building such housing as you suggest would help on many fronts, opening up larger housing to families and also helping with investment to the construction industry and create a fair few real jobs too.

However, my problem with things as they are is that there is not that other housing to move people to also I don't think they should be forced to move after being given secure tenancies.

The other side too is, the example I illustrated, involves someone with early dementia, it is better from a care angle to keep such people in known surroundings where they are safer while still able to manage in a fashion independently a fair bit of the time.

It is the ruthlessness and heartlessness of the policy that annoys me and which I find really disturbing if I am honest, that any Politician or Govt in the UK in this day and age could bring into being such an unfair and wrong policy.

I see you did say could single vulnerable people be asked to consider such a move to smaller housing if and when available, I have no problem with that and would agree to it and support it, as long as they are not being forced to move and/or financially discriminated against to do so either.

[Kizzy]

Agreed, although i'm sure there was several 'thinktanks' and numerous reports submitted prior to these welfare reforms.
To me it was money down the drain, as there appears to have been no consideration whatsoever for those who need the most care, and who obviously will be the most affected...
I understand the familiar surroundings aspect of dementia, however I feel that the benefits of low level housing, along with perhaps an estate warden or CCTV monitering?
I think there could be huge benefits for the social care of those groups who struggle and are targets for criminals in some communities.

[arista]

"Their idea to reform welfare and benefits are right, the means they have used,in my opinion anyway, bring shame to any decency."


But Joey
I want to Know what is Labours Stand on this
as before the then Temp PM Brown was doing the same
until his minister stepped down, saying Brown must go

I look Forward to Labour saying if they would reform or do they want another Greece

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

"Their idea to reform welfare and benefits are right, the means they have used,in my opinion anyway, bring shame to any decency."


But Joey
I want to Know what is Labours Stand on this
as before the then Temp PM Brown was doing the same
until his minister stepped down, saying Brown must go

I look Forward to Labour saying if they would reform or do they want another Greece

Therein lies the problem,you as ever make a good point as to Labours lack of foresight and leadership too.
Those who vote have little idea as to what Labour would do now in light of the welfare and benefit changes.
They really should have been making much more noise and opposition to things like this bedroom tax especially.

As I said,I agreed with welfare and benefit reform but my view is from all I have observed and learned from groups working in this field that real fraud and claiming of benefits not entitled to,is a minority not the massive number the media would have us believe there is.

I also agree with this Govts plan of only a 1% increase in benefit payments,it is the reforming and confusing,costly reforms which have led me to not support the measures put forward.
If I was an MP,I would have had to speak out against much of the benefit reforms in the form they have been legislated on.
As to Labour, they won't even say if they will support the 1% increase in benefits or not,they are going to have to start saying more and detailing their intentions soon definitiely.

Andy Burnham has said as to the NHS reforms being brought in, his first task if Labour win the next election will be to repeal as much of those reforms as is possible to do. That also to me is good because I cannot see how this Govt had any authority from the voters to do such a large top to bottom across the board reforming of the NHS either.
No plans for such were in either of the Coalition parties manifestos.

Of course I agree, this Govt came into a very bad situation,the deficit made so bad in part by Labours extra borrowing and measures to ease out of that then recession, I also realise though had Labour not gone down the path they did, then although the financial burden may have been better, likely unemployment would have gone the roof and there would have been more wasted lives and livelihoods for far longer, as to that much higher unemployment.

It is easy for me to criticise the Govt for this and that, largely I have supported what they have done so far,what they are doing to the NHS I don't though and also these changes to the benefits structure.
Targetting help to those at the lower end of the scale is right and also protecting the weakest,poorest and most vulnerable, these measures will do the exact opposite unfortunately.

Also,Ministers being allowed to demonise those on benefits too are a total disgrace in my view and all they do is fuel the media's witchhunt of fraudsters as to benefit.
Odd we hear of so few really despite them always looking for those stories.
I get mad at the likes of George Osborne, Chancellor. An important man in a responsible important post.
Harping on about people going to work and seeing curtains closed as to the houses of those on benefits.
What a disgraceful and likely inaccurate comment, I am a student, 4 of us are in this house, when we go to Uni or go out, we always close the curtains and blinds.
The couple in the next house to us, both work, they are out all day, they close all their blinds too when they are out.
I really get angry when Politicians say daft things just to get applause or think they are funny.
The Govt is failing as to all its targets, certain people in the UK,looked down on by some of the elite in Govt should not be made scapegoats though for this Govt and the previous ones failures.

Those are my issues with this Govt. Also Merry Kizzmas, I agree that in principle people with dementia are perhaps better with overseeing care such as warden controlled accommodation or other sheltered housing but it is the case that removing someone from an environment they have known all their lives is more likely to hasten the illness rather than help it.

If people can function independently,then the best means of care is to support them doing that in familiar surroundings with things they know and people and places they know and people who know them.
Financially penalising them to get them to be forced to make a decision to move elsewhere is not only wrong in my view, it is also inhuman.

[Kizzy]

Do you have a link to the proposals made by Brown arista?
I would have hoped the savings made now these huge companies are paying the correct tax would offset the pressure placed on the most vulnerable welfare dependants?
I understand joey, thats why these changes have to be voluntary to not place undue stress on the tenants affected.
I was thinking of this as I recently applied for a position in the social care sector as a telecare operator.
As you highlighted there are more dementia sufferers staying within their homes for longer, before they are found to require long term residential care.
Telecare is designed to aid them to do this.
The behavior of this govt, the over reliance of questionable 'assessment' bodies such as ATOS and the attitude shown by George Osborne shows that we have indeed gone back over 100yrs in how we approach the issue of the poor/ vulnerable/ disabled in society.
The conservatives sending a clear message that this section of society is to be cut adrift.
A kind of laissez-faire hatchet job, and they must sink or swim.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

Do you have a link to the proposals made by Brown arista?
I would have hoped the savings made now these huge companies are paying the correct tax would offset the pressure placed on the most vulnerable welfare dependants?
I understand joey, thats why these changes have to be voluntary to not place undue stress on the tenants affected.
I was thinking of this as I recently applied for a position in the social care sector as a telecare operator.
As you highlighted there are more dementia sufferers staying within their homes for longer, before they are found to require long term residential care.
Telecare is designed to aid them to do this.The behavior of this govt, the over reliance of questionable 'assessment' bodies such as ATOS and the attitude shown by George Osborne shows that we have indeed gone back over 100yrs in how we approach the issue of the poor/ vulnerable/ disabled in society.
The conservatives sending a clear message that this section of society is to be cut adrift.
A kind of laissez-faire hatchet job, and they must sink or swim.

Absolutely right, as to the keeping of sufferers of dementia,even in the early stages, in their safe and known surroundings.
The added large financial burden on them though will mean after this detestable bedroom tax comes in at the levels it has been set at,that people like the person I outlined will no way be able to have that choice as financially it will be near impossible to be able to pay the extra being lost as to housing benefit and council tax rebate.

In his case, he and others like him, will see their funds to live on,through no fault of their own fall by over 10% at least,already on the lower end of the scale due to them being on benefits, they even though they are clearly vulnerable, will find no compassion from this policy whatsoever.
To me, that is unforgiveable really. A rotten policy and a totally unjust one.

This Govt has backed down and done u turns on many policies since coming to power, if ever there was a clear candidate as a policy for a full u turn then this bedroom tax is by far,in my view the front runner.

[the truth]

at least theyve frozen the pensions and disabled benefits

[Kizzy]

Have you read anything recently relating to social care un the UK?
Councils are slicing budgets for preventative care and home care services. This means the vulnerable and elderly have effectively been abandoned..Left to fend for themselves.
The benefits system restructuring means 1000's of those previously classed as unfit for work have had their benefits removed, people with serious debilitating conditions....
The only thing thats frozen is the hearts and minds of those who can't see what is really going on here.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

Have you read anything recently relating to social care un the UK?
Councils are slicing budgets for preventative care and home care services. This means the vulnerable and elderly have effectively been abandoned..Left to fend for themselves.
The benefits system restructuring means 1000's of those previously classed as unfit for work have had their benefits removed, people with serious debilitating conditions....
The only thing thats frozen is the hearts and minds of those who can't see what is really going on here.

Thats incorrect. Firstly disabled and pensions are frozen, fact.
Secondly councils have run enormous deficits for decades, their waste has been utterly scandalous for decades. This cannot be blamed on this government. The way they operate is a disgrace. Not just corrupt prctice in some cases, but also the fact less that 1 person is employed per 1000 employees to deal with corruption, malpractice and incompetence. The council system simply rewards waste and failure. Waste all your money this year so youre sure to get the same or more funding next year. the system itself is a disgarce from the top down and endless governments have failed to grasp this massive issue. success and prudent spedning must be rewarded and failure must be punished. very few councils actually send money back to the treasury, those that do face punishment with smaller grants the following year. its just crazy anti-economics.
thirdly, the social services are a disaster. its NOT purely down to money its also down to the way they're structured and down to their total failure to listen to people and their actual needs,not to what they want to hear nor to offer prducts and services that these people simply do not want. we need to hear less from social workers and more from the people themselves. why in 2012 is there absolutley no service outside of 9 to 5pm, barely anyone to call in emergency situations either. with tens of billions at their disposal, why is there no flexibility in their system.

in the end theres way too many holes in our civil service. it becomes a game of squeezing as much money out of the government as possible and with so few checks and balances in place, the failure to follow due process is rife at every council in the UK. whats worse is the people who do waste or worse fiddle at councils know the chances of exposure are less than 1000 to 1 as thats how manypeople they employ to investigate complaints, 1 in 1000....anyone who does make a complaint against a staff member will of course be blackballed and may lose their career....this is why this corruption is endlessly uncovered years later.

[Vicky.]

Disablity benefits may well be frozen, but the targets still exist for how many people need to be shifted onto JSA and/or lose their DLA regardless of how their disability affects them. The official stance seems to be to get ATOS to give out their miracle cure for all sorts of illnesses (including terminal in some cases) to help the DWP reduce the amount of people on sickness benefits so they can save like £20 per person per week by sticking them on JSA when they are unable to work. Then sanctioning them (thus saving more money) for being too ill to work.

And of course pensions are frozen. Pensioners make up the majority of voters, pensions will never be touched

[Kizzy]

It is correct, the facts have been reported in the guardian today and the independant for the past week.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Disablity benefits may well be frozen, but the targets still exist for how many people need to be shifted onto JSA and/or lose their DLA regardless of how their disability affects them. The official stance seems to be to get ATOS to give out their miracle cure for all sorts of illnesses (including terminal in some cases) to help the DWP reduce the amount of people on sickness benefits so they can save like £20 per person per week by sticking them on JSA when they are unable to work. Then sanctioning them (thus saving more money) for being too ill to work.

And of course pensions are frozen. Pensioners make up the majority of voters, pensions will never be touched

do you have any evidence to back that up please? Id be interested to read it.

I would add regaridng disability, the labour government brought in a law that means every time a disabled person bought a nornal car they firstly had to put in an automatic or semi automatic system and hand controls...but labour then introduced another law that meant disabled people were outlawed from transferring this system across to future vehicles...? that means every time a disabled person if he or she wants to buy a car must spend at least £2000 per vehicle more than an able bodied person....so if you buy a £500 old banger of a vectra that same car costs a disabled person £2500, then when it goes bang in a year, theres another £2000 adaption again and again....typical new labour all style no substance, all headlines and no content, all cliches and in practicality they oversaw a proud nation go bankrupt morally and financially....I suspect this lot wont be much better.

[Vicky.]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19963608

New PIP system (replacing DLA) designed to lower existing disability payments

http://www.carersuk.org/help-and-adv...swered?start=4

Whilst the Government has said that they intend to keep the rates of the new benefit (how much claimants get each week) similar to the DLA levels, when they first announced that they would be changing DLA, they said that they would be cutting the whole DLA budget by around 20%.

We now know what this means for on disabled people. By 2015/16 there will be 500,000 fewer people getting Personal Independence Payment than would have received DLA if these changes had not taken place. This amounts to a cut of 23% (almost 1 in 4) in the number of people who would be entitled to DLA.

Targets.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...nts-fines-work

Sanctions for those who cant return to work after being found 'fit' by ATOS (which doesnt mean they are actually fit, as 40% of ATOS decisions are wrong)



As for ESA/ATOS in general, there are a lot of links in the ATOS tread showing exactly what they are doing. Declaring someone who has the mental age of a 7 year old as 'fit for work' (thus trying to shift her onto JSA) speaks for itself really...

[Kizzy]

What is this, some bizarre retrospective?
Let's look forward not back eh?
This thread relates to what is happening currently up and down the country.
Switch on the news, read any paper everyday there are reports of cuts which affect every section of sociey...
Why should vicky provide you with evidence of it?
If you choose to ignore the facts or manipulate them to fit your own perception of what is happening within the UK today that is your issue.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19963608

New PIP system (replacing DLA) designed to lower existing disability payments

http://www.carersuk.org/help-and-adv...swered?start=4



Targets.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...nts-fines-work

Sanctions for those who cant return to work after being found 'fit' by ATOS (which doesnt mean they are actually fit, as 40% of ATOS decisions are wrong)



As for ESA/ATOS in general, there are a lot of links in the ATOS tread showing exactly what they are doing. Declaring someone who has the mental age of a 7 year old as 'fit for work' (thus trying to shift her onto JSA) speaks for itself really...

thanks for that.

I attended a dla meeting with my cousin in a wheelchair to appeal the fact he had been declined the benefit about 10 years ago....every person I met there (approximately 20 people)did not have a disability as I see it. They were all over weight some used wlaking sticks and breathed heavily. My cousin has multiple schlerosis. to me the line between disability and ill health has been blurred in the past 10 years or so....

the dla is for mobility and care. if a person has a disability from birth or from accident, he she should surely get the dla and probably for mobility and care and this person will need to pay more for mobility and care issues.

however if a persons ill health is created themselves by poor diet, poor living and eating and drink smoking and drugs? should these people be treated the same as those who inherit a disability or suffer an accident. the problem it seems is 1) this government are rushing this dla reform and hurting innocent people and 2) the last governments failed to draw the line between the disabled and the unhealthy. one can help themselves the other cannot. this left the door open for people to effectively become more unhealthy and benefit financially from doing so. thats wrong.

i shall read up on these issues more and return in a few days

Originally Posted by the truth

thanks for that.

I attended a dla meeting with my cousin in a wheelchair to appeal the fact he had been declined the benefit about 10 years ago....every person I met there (approximately 20 people)did not have a disability as I see it. They were all over weight some used wlaking sticks and breathed heavily. My cousin has multiple schlerosis. to me the line between disability and ill health has been blurred in the past 10 years or so....

the dla is for mobility and care. if a person has a disability from birth or from accident, he she should surely get the dla and probably for mobility and care and this person will need to pay more for mobility and care issues.

however if a persons ill health is created themselves by poor diet, poor living and eating and drink smoking and drugs? should these people be treated the same as those who inherit a disability or suffer an accident. the problem it seems is 1) this government are rushing this dla reform and hurting innocent people and 2) the last governments failed to draw the line between the disabled and the unhealthy. one can help themselves the other cannot. this left the door open for people to effectively become more unhealthy and benefit financially from doing so. thats wrong.

i shall read up on these issues more and return in a few days

Why did you go in a wheelchair?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Why did you go in a wheelchair?

i didnt... my cousin did.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

thanks for that.

I attended a dla meeting with my cousin in a wheelchair to appeal the fact he had been declined the benefit about 10 years ago....every person I met there (approximately 20 people)did not have a disability as I see it. They were all over weight some used wlaking sticks and breathed heavily. My cousin has multiple schlerosis. to me the line between disability and ill health has been blurred in the past 10 years or so....

the dla is for mobility and care. if a person has a disability from birth or from accident, he she should surely get the dla and probably for mobility and care and this person will need to pay more for mobility and care issues.

however if a persons ill health is created themselves by poor diet, poor living and eating and drink smoking and drugs? should these people be treated the same as those who inherit a disability or suffer an accident. the problem it seems is 1) this government are rushing this dla reform and hurting innocent people and 2) the last governments failed to draw the line between the disabled and the unhealthy. one can help themselves the other cannot. this left the door open for people to effectively become more unhealthy and benefit financially from doing so. thats wrong.

i shall read up on these issues more and return in a few days

I look forward to it....

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

thanks for that.

I attended a dla meeting with my cousin in a wheelchair to appeal the fact he had been declined the benefit about 10 years ago....every person I met there (approximately 20 people)did not have a disability as I see it. They were all over weight some used wlaking sticks and breathed heavily. My cousin has multiple schlerosis. to me the line between disability and ill health has been blurred in the past 10 years or so....

the dla is for mobility and care. if a person has a disability from birth or from accident, he she should surely get the dla and probably for mobility and care and this person will need to pay more for mobility and care issues.

however if a persons ill health is created themselves by poor diet, poor living and eating and drink smoking and drugs? should these people be treated the same as those who inherit a disability or suffer an accident. the problem it seems is 1) this government are rushing this dla reform and hurting innocent people and 2) the last governments failed to draw the line between the disabled and the unhealthy. one can help themselves the other cannot. this left the door open for people to effectively become more unhealthy and benefit financially from doing so. thats wrong.

i shall read up on these issues more and return in a few days

The thing is, some disabilities can cause obesity, rather than the other way round. Things like severe artritus for example, would mean a person cant move around very much and would likely end up piling on the weight because of this. Its easy to say it doesnt look like people have a disability, but some arent just physical either...

Personally I do not see the need for ATOS at all. The government pay them huge amounts of money and they get it wrong nearly half of the time(going on the level of sucessful appeals). I do not understand how someone with 2 days training can overrule hospital consultants etc who have years of experience and qualifications under their belts. The fraud rate of DLA is something ridiculously tiny like 0.2% though I dont know the exact figure. I see no justification for spending 400m a year on a private company to weed out such a small number of fraudulent claims, as the costs far outweight the savings. But ATOS are not there to get rid of the frauds, they are there to reduce the benefits bill. And they arent even managing that now that people realise they can fight the ridiculous decisions they make.

I do however agree that people with disabilities from birth or an accident, and are unlikely/certain to not get any better should definitely get DLA. I also do not think they should be reassesed every 6 months or so when it it obvious that the condition will not go away in that time. However people with progressive illnesses that will only ever get worse, not better, are still routinely called for these 'medicals' and usually failed with 0 points...and end up having to appeal again and again. The system is an absolute mess.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The thing is, some disabilities can cause obesity, rather than the other way round. Things like severe artritus for example, would mean a person cant move around very much and would likely end up piling on the weight because of this. Its easy to say it doesnt look like people have a disability, but some arent just physical either...

Personally I do not see the need for ATOS at all. The government pay them huge amounts of money and they get it wrong nearly half of the time(going on the level of sucessful appeals). I do not understand how someone with 2 days training can overrule hospital consultants etc who have years of experience and qualifications under their belts. The fraud rate of DLA is something ridiculously tiny like 0.2% though I dont know the exact figure. I see no justification for spending 400m a year on a private company to weed out such a small number of fraudulent claims, as the costs far outweight the savings. But ATOS are not there to get rid of the frauds, they are there to reduce the benefits bill. And they arent even managing that now that people realise they can fight the ridiculous decisions they make.

I do however agree that people with disabilities from birth or an accident, and are unlikely/certain to not get any better should definitely get DLA. I also do not think they should be reassesed every 6 months or so when it it obvious that the condition will not go away in that time. However people with progressive illnesses that will only ever get worse, not better, are still routinely called for these 'medicals' and usually failed with 0 points...and end up having to appeal again and again. The system is an absolute mess.

why has it become a mess? because new politicians invented a word called diversity and decided everyone who wasnt a white man was part of the diversity, so they threw in everyone from cultural minorities, ethnicities, to the mentally and physically disabled to blind people to women....they also threw in alcoholics, drug abusers, mental health, all under 1 enormous roof of diversity. then they tried to managed all these groups with the same set of blanket rules

in the end we got into a situation where more money was being spend per head on prisoners than on sick old people? where overseas students were more valued than british students because of the extra funding, where alcoholics were often getting disability benefits and people who had a lifetime of disability they were born with lost their benefits. where murdered were taken from prison on day trips to the mountains to go kayaking...on over 1500 occasions these convicts actually committed serious crimes on these day releases....wheres the day trips for the sick , the poor, the elderly and the disabled adults?

the line was blurred so much it wasnt even there anymore

Ive met police officers who show more sympathy for the perpetrators of crime than the victims of it. I know one poor guy with 1 leg through diabetes who was broken into, they found the culprit and the stolen equipment smashed up. the cops did nothing for him. its the moral questions that we are failing to really address. who deserves the money?

I know one guy who told me he had to get so stupidly drunk one night because he was being tested for a benefits increase the next day and he needed more alcohol in his blood stream in order to get him this increase. was this 100% accurate I dont know but this is what he told me and frankly it sounded plausible judging but his other actions

theres millions claiming this dla...Id bet a vast number do not have disabilities just poor health and poor diets...Id also bet a huge number are heavy drinkers and smokers. I dont want tax payers money and benefits to fund this unhealthy lifestyle at the expense of sick, elderly, disabled or terminally ill people. I draw a line and I make a moral choice at that point. the same with prisoners. let them be rehabilitated IN prison. not on the streets endanering innocent people

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

why has it become a mess? because new politicians invented a word called diversity and decided everyone who wasnt a white man was part of the diversity, so they threw in everyone from cultural minorities, ethnicities, to the mentally and physically disabled to blind people to women....they also threw in alcoholics, drug abusers, mental health, all under 1 enormous roof of diversity. then they tried to managed all these groups with the same set of blanket rules

in the end we got into a situation where more money was being spend per head on prisoners than on sick old people? where overseas students were more valued than british students because of the extra funding, where alcoholics were often getting disability benefits and people who had a lifetime of disability they were born with lost their benefits. where murdered were taken from prison on day trips to the mountains to go kayaking...on over 1500 occasions these convicts actually committed serious crimes on these day releases....wheres the day trips for the sick , the poor, the elderly and the disabled adults?

the line was blurred so much it wasnt even there anymore

Ive met police officers who show more sympathy for the perpetrators of crime than the victims of it. I know one poor guy with 1 leg through diabetes who was broken into, they found the culprit and the stolen equipment smashed up. the cops did nothing for him. its the moral questions that we are failing to really address. who deserves the money?

I know one guy who told me he had to get so stupidly drunk one night because he was being tested for a benefits increase the next day and he needed more alcohol in his blood stream in order to get him this increase. was this 100% accurate I dont know but this is what he told me and frankly it sounded plausible judging but his other actions

theres millions claiming this dla...Id bet a vast number do not have disabilities just poor health and poor diets...Id also bet a huge number are heavy drinkers and smokers. I dont want tax payers money and benefits to fund this unhealthy lifestyle at the expense of sick, elderly, disabled or terminally ill people. I draw a line and I make a moral choice at that point. the same with prisoners. let them be rehabilitated IN prison. not on the streets endanering innocent people

The benefits increase thing would be untrue...mainly because in the 'medicals' they dont actually examine you as they arent qualified to do so. So the level of alcohol in his blood would make no difference at all. However, if he was playing the system and got obviously drunk on the DAY of his medical it would help him to pass. Unfortunately, as with everything, there will always be a small level of fraud, such as the man you describe. The current system of guilty until proven innocent is not doing good at all though, as the fraudsters KNOW how to pass these tests (for example if you search on google for 'point descriptors ATOS medical' there are pages that tell you exactly what you can get points for, so people who are playing the system know what to say...whereas a genuine disabled person wouldnt even think to check things like that as they would expect they would pass anyway) so the only people being hurt by ATOS are actual ill people who assume that the 'tests' are fair when they are not.

I am of the opinion that addicts and alcoholics should not get disability benefits too. I dont think throwing more money at them to fund their habits helps matters at all. The money should be spent on those who are ill through no fault of their own. Unfortunately the government/DWP appear to disagree and class alcoholism and drug addiction as a disability. I actually know someone who is on the higher rate of ESA for being an alchie. It really annoys me when others I know have been denied their disability benefits and had to appeal to win their rightful award...when this man passes no problem just by going in pissed.