[arista]

http://news.sky.com/story/1035220/go...pping-benefits


This is all because New Labour
left the UK with the Biggest Ever Debt
Fact

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

http://news.sky.com/story/1035220/go...pping-benefits


This is all because New Labour
left the UK with the Biggest Ever Debt
Fact

How many times ...IT WAS A WORLDWIDE RECESSION!!!!

Why can some not grasp that concept?...

This government is racing through all kinds of reforms before they have been fully impact assessed...How democratic is that?
There has been much written lately about the demonisation of the poor/disabled by ministers, what is happening is nothing short of social cleansing!
Look at the real statistics for proof as to how many long term unemployed there are...how prevelent benefit fraud is.
Don't listen to the conservatives inciting hatred of the most vulnerable in our communities.

[Marcus.]

oh boy

[arista]

"IT WAS A WORLDWIDE RECESSION!!!!"


Yes Kizzy - I am aware
but in the UK New Labour Sold our Gold
and Put us in the Biggest ever Debt.

[joeysteele]

I can understand the reasons for limiting benefit increases to 1% for a period,that on its own I would have supported and agreed with, however all the other hammering at those on benefits,sick and disabled too,things like the bedroom tax, the loss of part of council tax rebate too are just too much and not only wrong but unjust too in my opinion.

For me it doesn't matter who left what mess, had Labour not left a financial problem to deal with, then it would have had to leave a human cost problem with massive unemployment.
Just as the Conservatives did in the 80s to get out of their ecomonic problems, I understand a Minister actually said in so many words that unemployment was a price worth paying then.

This Govt is nowhere near hitting anything like its targets as to the economy by 2015 and so it takes a further hammer out to use against those at the lowest end of the scale,the poorest, weakest and vulnerable.

Total shame as to the Lib Dems on this one, how the vast majority of them could, in light of all the past severe actions against the weakest, troop in to voting this through is beyond understanding for me.
Had they not been needed to form a coalition, they would be screaming from every rooftop at the injustice of this policy.

The deficit of course needs sorting, the welfare bill needs to be cut, of course that's right, but first before that can be done reasonably is to create new jobs and as near permanent ones as you can first and then get people off benefits that can be.

The deficit cutting is now not going to be done as to the target this coalition set by 2015,they are now going to have to admit failure because they fiddle about rather than get the funds needed from those who can shoulder the burden more easily.

The Conservatives and Lib Dems derided Labour for their plans to halve the deficit in 4 years but not starting to inflict cuts until the 2nd year of office and also to make 20% less cuts too.
However that to a great many people now is starting to look like the fairer, more compassionate way to have gone about things.
The derision bellowed at Labour of only planning 20% less cuts as nothing also seems out of place as to the economic situation now.
20% less cuts as to multi billions of pounds of cuts would mean a fair few services could have been saved, less jobs lost.
I say less jobs lost because although unemployment is falling slowly, all over Companies are slicing 1 to 3 hours off their workers working week, also there are now more part time jobs than likely ever before.
Which means people are worse off and those with only part time jobs will be hammered by this 1% cap as to certain benefits,in addition too as to their likely losses of council tax rebate and housing benefit cuts too.

So speaking personally,if I had been an MP today, I could not have supported this cap.It is time to pull back from the bashing of those at the very lowest end of the scale and that includes the genuinely sick disabled and also terminally ill too,who are also suffering under these unfair and heartless measures no matter what Duncan Smith says to the contrary.

[michael21]

Originally Posted by arista

http://news.sky.com/story/1035220/go...pping-benefits


This is all because New Labour
left the UK with the Biggest Ever Debt
Fact

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How many times ...IT WAS A WORLDWIDE RECESSION!!!!

Why can some not grasp that concept?...

This government is racing through all kinds of reforms before they have been fully impact assessed...How democratic is that?
There has been much written lately about the demonisation of the poor/disabled by ministers, what is happening is nothing short of social cleansing!
Look at the real statistics for proof as to how many long term unemployed there are...how prevelent benefit fraud is.
Don't listen to the conservatives inciting hatred of the most vulnerable in our communities.

look you two all big decision that go thought parliament are voted by both party so let stop this one party better then the other one if you seen PMQ you can see that most of the MP are asleep and the other are acting like kids trying to point score as for Debt and the RECESSION this will not be sorted out in our live time well at least not the next 200 years this is all

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How many times ...IT WAS A WORLDWIDE RECESSION!!!!

Why can some not grasp that concept?...

This government is racing through all kinds of reforms before they have been fully impact assessed...How democratic is that?
There has been much written lately about the demonisation of the poor/disabled by ministers, what is happening is nothing short of social cleansing!
Look at the real statistics for proof as to how many long term unemployed there are...how prevelent benefit fraud is.
Don't listen to the conservatives inciting hatred of the most vulnerable in our communities.

arent disabled benefits exempt from this? I thought they were?

Yes. The poor have had it too easy for too long in this country. Everyone knows the world wide financial collapse was down to working class people getting too greedy with their investment portfolio's.

Finally a party has had the balls to tackle this head on.

They are lazy

They feel the force.

Heating and food
Greedy
pick one.

[the truth]

thats right and one of the few people who give the poor comfort and spiritual strength to fight the rich oppressors , namely Jesus, you choose to try and destroy. makes absolutely no sense as always. meanwhile you leave all the despots , murderers, rapists and butchers alone. absurd

[arista]

Originally Posted by the truth

thats right and one of the few people who give the poor comfort and spiritual strength to fight the rich oppressors , namely Jesus, you choose to try and destroy. makes absolutely no sense as always. meanwhile you leave all the despots , murderers, rapists and butchers alone. absurd

You are off again
Going Off Topic.

There is still an unanswered question on your wall if you wish to enter into a debate with me. You can of course, continue to pick and choose your snidey little comments, but it would be nice if you had the bollocks to do it properly.

What's the matter, Daniel? Afraid to enter the Lions den?

It's all so terribly tiresome.

[Nedusa]

The Welfare state was set up after the war to help people get back on their feet, it was never intended to provide life long benefits for fat,lazy,stupid,workshy people. And it was never meant to become a lifestyle choice for whole families and generations of families. They are responsible for stealing countless millions of pounds from normal hard working taxpayers.

Enough is Enough.....lets have a COMPLETE overhaul of the whole system, everything from top to bottom. bring it on and not before time...!!!!

Originally Posted by Nedusa

The Welfare state was set up after the war to help people get back on their feet, it was never intended to provide life long benefits for fat,lazy,stupid,workshy people. And it was never meant to become a lifestyle choice for whole families and generations of families. They are responsible for stealing countless millions of pounds from normal hard working taxpayers.

Enough is Enough.....lets have a COMPLETE overhaul of the whole system, everything from top to bottom. bring it on and not before time...!!!!

I'm a normal hard working tax payer. Why does your opinion carry more weight than mine, when I don't feel I'm being stolen from?

In fact, I know that the rich in society continue to steal from us, collapse the banking system, and pay for it on the backs of the poor. How anyone can have a problem with people being provided for by government in these times?

The government has an obligation to provide health care, and a minimum standard of living to everyone in society. If we fail to do so, then crime rates will go through the roof, areas will become further ghetto-ised. You don't balance the books on the back of the people that have least. It's not moral, ethical or just.

[Livia]

Some of the rich are also investors, donators and employers. It's not a case of All Poor People = Good/All Rich People = Bad.

Yeah, and a lot of those same investors continue to "streamline" their workforces, whilst sitting on record profits. That's their right as private investors, but who picks up the slack?

Investors never invest to create jobs, they are looking to create growth and profits. In order to do that requires expansion.

I know it's way too simplistic to pit rich against poor, but when things like this happen, then it needs to be continually highlighted exactly what is happening in plain sight.

We don't have a deficit problem, we have a growth problem, and you can't increase growth by reducing the amount of money that flows into the economy.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Yeah, and a lot of those same investors continue to "streamline" their workforces, whilst sitting on record profits. That's their right as private investors, but who picks up the slack?

Investors never invest to create jobs, they are looking to create growth and profits. In order to do that requires expansion.

I know it's way too simplistic to pit rich against poor, but when things like this happen, then it needs to be continually highlighted exactly what is happening in plain sight.

We don't have a deficit problem, we have a growth problem, and you can't increase growth by reducing the amount of money that flows into the economy.

I agree with all that,even more so the last bit. Well said.

[Nedusa]

I agree the system is stacked in favour of the rich but my earlier point still stands, the Welfare system in this country is subject to long term chronic abuse by generations of families who consider it their right to have money,benefits and housing given to them for nothing in return.

In fact the system is so open to abuse it is abused by people who are not even from this country but come here specifically to obtain benefits including medical benefits.The mindset has become so entrenched to the hand-out society we live in its gonna take the best part of a generation to change and re-educate people that they have no automatic entitlement to anything.

That the country is wealthy enough and cares enough to provide benefits to those who really need them is to the well and good...!!!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Yeah, and a lot of those same investors continue to "streamline" their workforces, whilst sitting on record profits. That's their right as private investors, but who picks up the slack?

Investors never invest to create jobs, they are looking to create growth and profits. In order to do that requires expansion.

I know it's way too simplistic to pit rich against poor, but when things like this happen, then it needs to be continually highlighted exactly what is happening in plain sight.

We don't have a deficit problem, we have a growth problem, and you can't increase growth by reducing the amount of money that flows into the economy.

Ohhhh... bugger off and stop making sense.

[Nedusa]

I think one of the problems the country has is that more and more companies trading and making "record profits" in this country are not based in this country or more to point their shareholders are not based in this country. As such the shareholders profits are not spent in this country so the money never finds its way back into the high street so traders are not getting this money and so more shops go out of business.

A global trading Village may sound a good idea but the UK is a small country and is in a deep recession, without consumer spending then the profit is spent abroad and this results in less corporation tax, less VAT etc... but still the country needs to find money to pay its huge Welfare bills so it borrows more... and more and gets deeper into recession.

It really is quite serious now, the state we are in and I for one fear for the future...!!!

[Kizzy]

I would say it is becoming that simplistic.
Venture capitalists don't give a damn about employment rights,
or the wants and needs of sociey, just profits...
The big 6 energy suppliers, they don't care about their customers, just profits.
The banks, they don't care about how they gamble billions as they can request a bailout fron the taxpayer.
Government can strip down and sell off all public services and the NHS... because they can.
There is no industry,no growth, and no work.
How can any of that be blamed on the poor?
The poor are a product of the state of ressesion the country is in, NOT the cause of it.