[waterhog]

what part of the NHS will they cut to pay for training and to teach doctors what CARE means ? 26.03.13

this is a red haring,
being imposed by a fake balloon,
the same will happen like Boris sharing,
his out burst is proof of the inner buffoon.
you don't care prime-minister,
just like your benefit and housing cap,
when hardship hits it wont be the ward sister,
the less well off will trap.
yet more video footage,
of old people being battered,
getting old has no advantage,
unless you are rich and "conservative party" flattered.
to implement change,
i do welcome the idea for the nurse,
spending 1 year on the ward with compassion range,
will for sure lead to a drop in calling the hearse.
we are all getting old,
this country makes me sad for how we treat,
David Camron needs to be told,
but this "nurse" idea is correct and bitter sweet.

( i do understand you can not trust the Conservative party and they would cut everything for the less well off if they could. with this new idea that the nurse has had to work on the ward for at least 1 year before they can move up, i do feel can only help the NHS improve its standards, the problem is - which part of the NHS is the conservative party going to cut to pay for this to be implemented?)

[Livia]

Apart from your usual semi-coherent anti-government rant, I can't work out what point you're trying to make... if any.

[Kizzy]

If you can't make it out how do you know it is anti government?....
The footage is most likely of private 'hursing' homes that funnily enough are not staffed by nurses joe, or anyone with any clinical training whatsoever in the main.
I do feel the poor trainee nurses are being handed the ****ty end of the stick here, they do spend time on wards, more 'hands on' would be better than the observation they do for the most part.
Know what would improve standards? funding...The royal college needs to speak up a bit louder here, and those who speak out not blacklisted as whistleblowers....
Make sure that the message is as loud, clear and coherent so the whole of westminster hears it.
That is a change that could be implamented and it would be long overdue!

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Livia

Apart from your usual semi-coherent anti-government rant, I can't work out what point you're trying to make... if any.

.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Apart from your usual semi-coherent anti-government rant, I can't work out what point you're trying to make... if any.

.

[Kizzy]

Thats why the NHS is failing, there are too many ignorant to the facts and too lazy to look beyond the 'statistics' to the root of the rot.
Cause and effect, no money + overworked staff = Deaths

[joeysteele]

I don't understand this, the NHS is hammered left right and centre, how can it not be as near being as perfect as it can be by now.

In the last 50 years,Labour have governed for 24 years and the Conservatives 26, it is time to stop using the NHS as a political football and get full concensus on the future of the NHS.
When Andy Burnham was Health secretary in the last years of the Labour Govt to 2010, he tried to get concensus politics going with the Lib Dems and the Conservatives.
Andrew Lansley, possibly the worse ever Shadow then actual Health secretary, would have none of it and walked away from such dealings.

It was another reason I couldn't vote for the Conservatives in 2010, I didn't trust them then as to the NHS and I definitely don't now especially after David Cameron gave his word there would be no full reform of the NHS but then did it, despite not winning an overall majority in 2010
Shame again on the Lib Dems for ever allowing him to get any major reforms through so I wouldn't trust them either because they would be so hypocritical they would, if likely needed, back Labours plans to repeal the reforms they supported if it helped keep them in some power base after the next election.

As to teaching NHS staff to care, well that should have been the norm anyway, I actually think Jeremy Hunt is right to have the standards of care and basic care looked at again and new training to be included where necessary.

For me again, I throw my frustration and anger at the trust management who put undue pressures on the staff and who are a good number of people in every hospital who actually don't do one single thing as to contributing to hands on care for patients.

Politicians need to stop the blame game though as to the NHS and try to create concensus as to its future, although I do hope if Labour win the 2015 election that Andy Burnham does set out to repeal as much of the disastrous reforms this coalition Govt has put in place which will likely make matters a great deal worse.
That will have my support and if he is the new Health secretary after 2015, I really hope he does that and then moves on hopefully with some concensus politics in mind for the future after that.

There will always be times of some hospitals, care homes etc failing and there will be times where things overall don't run as smoothly as they should but basic care should be a right and those providing care should be well trained and more to the point willing to carry that out.

[Vicky.]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...NHS-boobs.html

They need to cut crap like this. Absolutely ridiculous.

WANNABE glamour model Josie Cunningham shows off her new 36DD boobs — served up on the NHS.

Josie, 22, had a £4,800 breast op funded by the taxpayer after telling her GP that being flat-chested was causing emotional distress.

No way should the taxpayer be funding cosmetic surgery for silly little girls who aspire to be glamour models.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...NHS-boobs.html

They need to cut crap like this. Absolutely ridiculous.



No way should the taxpayer be funding cosmetic surgery for silly little girls who aspire to be glamour models.

absolutely, its a disgrace.....now that nonsense is all labours fault as under labour there was no moral line drawn on anything i.e. plastic boobs became as important as cancer treatment, where convicted criminals got more compassion and attention and money spent on them than sick, elde or disabled people

the nhs care factor has been missing for years, the nursing union is a disgrace and has covered up tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths down to neglect and abuse.

the introduction of enormous management structure and trusts has been a total disaster.

the hospitals are also still stinking

finally its way way way way way way way too hard gto get simple scans , exrays etc to simply find out whats wrong with the patient and then to give them the correct medication to attempt to cure or alleviate the problem

instead weve seen people wait months or years for scans and they suffer in agony, take endless unnecessayr medication , often the wrong medication as no one knows whats wrong with them as they havent had the correct scans, painkillers and bed blocking etc

[Kizzy]

The NHS is all about managers an less about clinical knowledge now, my sis is a specialist nurse, she recently had an interview and was shocked at the business related questions asked.
NOTHING in the NHS is anything to do with care now.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The NHS is all about managers an less about clinical knowledge now, my sis is a specialist nurse, she recently had an interview and was shocked at the business related questions asked.
NOTHING in the NHS is anything to do with care now.

care? they dont even empty the bins in our local hospital.....everyone tells lies all day every day, big lies about matters of life and death....at least the stafford report has exposed what is imho the biggets cover up in british history....innocent people just being killed off DNRs are rife too, 25000 dead from blood clots picked up in a hospitals through nursing neglect, mrsa levels 70 times higher than nations like sweden, listn to the recent victims, the matron tells and old man he must walk to the toilet? the man cant walk? he stands up, falls flat on his face and dies within 48 hours.....this is NOT about money this is about a total collapse in nursing values

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The NHS is all about managers an less about clinical knowledge now, my sis is a specialist nurse, she recently had an interview and was shocked at the business related questions asked.
NOTHING in the NHS is anything to do with care now.

Yes and 13 stupid years of New Labour
increased the the amount of managers
to a toxic level.

So getting Labour back in power
will not help, kizzy

[the truth]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes and 13 stupid years of New Labour
increased the the amount of managers
to a toxic level.

So getting Labour back in power
will not help, kizzy

labour had twice as much money but under them the NHS got worse, much worse, in fact it reached the stage where NO ONE was ever accountable....Id never vote labour ever again, they took us into illegal wars on a pack of lies, detsroyed the nhs, sold us out to rupert murdoch, backed the dreadful european unionj expnasion, too many civil servants and waste and corruption, energy bills through the roof, the gap betwene rich and poor bigger than for 100 years? we also had cash for questions and peerages and of course the expenses scandals oh and they bankrupted the country.......and their achievements? they banned fox hunting? whoopeee FFFing doo

[Kizzy]

Rupert Murock worked for the conservatives, the cash for questions scandal was another conservative problem, the conservatives reduced the feed-in tarriff so the big six could remain squeezing the nads of the country. That is not the issue here though...
There have been errors in government in both camps that's a given, however to blame the workers is wrong. As is being seen now, the current government want section 75 through... THATS why they are running services on a shoestring, they WANT services put out to private tender.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/health...e-NHS-takeover

[arista]

Originally Posted by the truth

labour had twice as much money but under them the NHS got worse, much worse, in fact it reached the stage where NO ONE was ever accountable....Id never vote labour ever again, they took us into illegal wars on a pack of lies, detsroyed the nhs, sold us out to rupert murdoch, backed the dreadful european unionj expnasion, too many civil servants and waste and corruption, energy bills through the roof, the gap betwene rich and poor bigger than for 100 years? we also had cash for questions and peerages and of course the expenses scandals oh and they bankrupted the country.......and their achievements? they banned fox hunting? whoopeee FFFing doo

You Are Most Wise

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Rupert Murock worked for the conservatives, the cash for questions scandal was another conservative problem, the conservatives reduced the feed-in tarriff so the big six could remain squeezing the nads of the country. That is not the issue here though...
There have been errors in government in both camps that's a given, however to blame the workers is wrong. As is being seen now, the current government want section 75 through... THATS why they are running services on a shoestring, they WANT services put out to private tender.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/health...e-NHS-takeover

Yes I agree its a Mess
but as money has gone
changes will happen under Labour or Conservative

[joeysteele]

I don't agree one bit at all that under Labour the NHS got worse, they invested in it and got more Nurses employed again too, wards that had been closed due to undermanning were again in use and the NHS improved considerably from the near crippled state it was brought to by 1997 by the Govt of the 80s and early 90s.
John Major did try to turn things around a bit but by 1997, the NHS was in a shocking state.

For instance, in the 80s and 90s,I have been told by people who had this done, that a cataract operation took from diagnosis almost 6 months or more before it was done,for an elderly person with bad cataracts that is a long time to have to suffer that problem.

However by 2002 the time of waiting for that operation was down to under 3 months max on average.
Of course there are problems at times, there will always be with an organisation as massive as the NHS and so many hospitals which is why it needs to stop being used by Politicians like a football,kicked around all different ways by whichever is in power.

I have to also say, I personally have never come across bins not being emptied on wards and rooms,certainly not in the hospitals I go to and I visit hospitals a lot with a friend of mine who is regularly in hospital.

I will though never accept that Labour ruined the NHS, They have absolutely no reason to want it harmed and Andy Burnham was in my view a really good Health secretary.
It is the massive under investement of the Conservatives through the 80s and the early 90s that near ruined the NHS and from all I have seen from this Coalition, they are heading down that road again.

I will not trust David Cameron now or these present leading Conservatives with the NHS. I hoped that David Cameron would keep his word not to do any full reform of it, well, he lied as to that and he will lie again likely as to his intentions as to the NHS at the next election too.

I only hope that if Labour win the election in 2015, I won't end up being disappointed again with politicians and that Andy Burnham will in fact, if health secretary, repeal as much as he can of this Govts disastrous reforms that very few indeed in the NHS even understand never mind even want at all.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I don't agree one bit at all that under Labour the NHS got worse, they invested in it and got more Nurses employed again too, wards that had been closed due to undermanning were again in use and the NHS improved considerably from the near crippled state it was brought to by 1997 by the Govt of the 80s and early 90s.
John Major did try to turn things around a bit but by 1997, the NHS was in a shocking state.

For instance, in the 80s and 90s,I have been told by people who had this done, that a cataract operation took from diagnosis almost 6 months or more before it was done,for an elderly person with bad cataracts that is a long time to have to suffer that problem.

However by 2002 the time of waiting for that operation was down to under 3 months max on average.
Of course there are problems at times, there will always be with an organisation as massive as the NHS and so many hospitals which is why it needs to stop being used by Politicians like a football,kicked around all different ways by whichever is in power.

I have to also say, I personally have never come across bins not being emptied on wards and rooms,certainly not in the hospitals I go to and I visit hospitals a lot with a friend of mine who is regularly in hospital.

I will though never accept that Labour ruined the NHS, They have absolutely no reason to want it harmed and Andy Burnham was in my view a really good Health secretary.
It is the massive under investement of the Conservatives through the 80s and the early 90s that near ruined the NHS and from all I have seen from this Coalition, they are heading down that road again.

I will not trust David Cameron now or these present leading Conservatives with the NHS. I hoped that David Cameron would keep his word not to do any full reform of it, well, he lied as to that and he will lie again likely as to his intentions as to the NHS at the next election too.

I only hope that if Labour win the election in 2015, I won't end up being disappointed again with politicians and that Andy Burnham will in fact, if health secretary, repeal as much as he can of this Govts disastrous reforms that very few indeed in the NHS even understand never mind even want at all.

No I am not saying that
but why in the blue hell
did Gordon Brown set up PPI loans
for hospitals.

a Utter fool
who kept saying no more boom and bust


Joey if you stick up for New Labour
then you are wrong.

[Kizzy]

Yes, at least conservatives are consistant all you ever get with them is bust... Oh except bankers, payday loan operators, energy suppliers, venture capitalists and MP's obv

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

No I am not saying that
but why in the blue hell
did Gordon Brown set up PPI loans
for hospitals.

a Utter fool
who kept saying no more boom and bust


Joey if you stick up for New Labour
then you are wrong.

arista,I have just about travelled the whole political line as to who I can see the right in, at 16,I was Conservative in a soft way not a firm level of support, in 2010 at 18, I was concerned as to tuition fees and also savage cuts in the first year and the NHS, learning more as to the near total run down of the NHS during the 1980s and early 90s.
I then voted Lib Dem, believing that was like an insurance policy of cortrol of policies as to whichever of the main 2 parties got the most seats.
How wrong I was.

Having welcomed this coalition at first, I am now massively disappointed with it,for its total heartlessness and lack of understanding or compassion.
It is failing on almost everything it has done,this thread is about the NHS and for me all I have had shown to me from the Conservatives and now the Lib Dems too is that in fact, neither of them can be trusted, with these leaders, with the NHS.
David Cameron's word means nothing at all.

So for me on that issue alone, I will defend Labour, they are the only main party I would trust with the NHS now after these reforms done by this coalition govt.
I am also pretty sure that those who were worried last time about the NHS but believed David Cameron when he said there would ne no full reform of the NHS by his govt so then gave him their votes, will for certain not be giving him them in 2015.

Every govt makes mistakes and bad judgements, I accept that and Labour didn't get everything right as to the NHS but on all you read as to the NHS through the 80s to the present,and from my own experiences of it, they left the NHS in a far stronger and better position after their 13 years in power than the Conservatives did after 18 years in power to 1997.
The NHS was near crippled in 1997, it was Labour who then improved and modernised it with good investment into it and ensuring better staffing levels too.
I also accept like all places, there are good and not so good staff too,that is the case everywhere,I myself have found the majority of staff in the NHS to be really good at their jobs and near all they do.

Had Labour had the courage with their big majorities to clear out the trust management of the NHS Hospitals then that would have been another feather in their cap as to the NHS. however they didn't and that surprises me.

I lay a lot of the blame for what goes wrong in the NHS hospitals with the trust managers, who rarely visit wards anyway,(unless a celebrity or v.i.p. is visiting the hospital).
It is also likely though some of them wouldn't have a clue how to get a ward never mind visit it.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes, at least conservatives are consistant all you ever get with them is bust... Oh except bankers, payday loan operators, energy suppliers, venture capitalists and MP's obv

and what did we get from labour? all of the above plus...trebling student fees, collapsed economy, massive wars based on lies, mega government and local government waste anc rorruption, .unemployement trillions in debt, higher taxes for the poor, did nothing for industry at all, 10 million workshy chavs living off the state, record teen abortions/pregnancies, giving all our rights to the useless corrupt wasteful european project, broken homes, fatherless families, collapse of any moral structure especially in the NHS, boobs jobs on the nhs but more delay for cancer treatment? waste waste lies, spin and at the end of 13 years, the gap between rich and poor the biggest for 100+ years

the tories are useless but since theyve been in at least we have 600,000 fewer unemplyed and over 500,000 new jobs, lower taxes for the poorer, debts slightly falling, means testing millions of lazy workless chavs who simply breed to make money, standing up to europe at least a little bit

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

and what did we get from labour? all of the above plus...trebling student fees, collapsed economy, massive wars based on lies, mega government and local government waste anc rorruption, .unemployement trillions in debt, higher taxes for the poor, did nothing for industry at all, 10 million workshy chavs living off the state, record teen abortions/pregnancies, giving all our rights to the useless corrupt wasteful european project, broken homes, fatherless families, collapse of any moral structure especially in the NHS, boobs jobs on the nhs but more delay for cancer treatment? waste waste lies, spin and at the end of 13 years, the gap between rich and poor the biggest for 100+ years

the tories are useless but since theyve been in at least we have 600,000 fewer unemplyed and over 500,000 new jobs, lower taxes for the poorer, debts slightly falling, means testing millions of lazy workless chavs who simply breed to make money, standing up to europe at least a little bit

What is this a sociological offensive from the new right?

The reduction in unemployment is down to the 'work (un) fare scheme. So not a true representation. Just fiddling with figures.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

and what did we get from labour? all of the above plus...trebling student fees, collapsed economy, massive wars based on lies, mega government and local government waste anc rorruption, .unemployement trillions in debt, higher taxes for the poor, did nothing for industry at all, 10 million workshy chavs living off the state, record teen abortions/pregnancies, giving all our rights to the useless corrupt wasteful european project, broken homes, fatherless families, collapse of any moral structure especially in the NHS, boobs jobs on the nhs but more delay for cancer treatment? waste waste lies, spin and at the end of 13 years, the gap between rich and poor the biggest for 100+ years

the tories are useless but since theyve been in at least we have 600,000 fewer unemplyed and over 500,000 new jobs, lower taxes for the poorer, debts slightly falling, means testing millions of lazy workless chavs who simply breed to make money, standing up to europe at least a little bit

The Truth, you do usually have a base to your arguments but where on earth did Labour treble tuition fees?
They introduced them but trebling them up to a max of £9,000 per year from £3,000 was done by this Coalition Govt,not Labour,they had no plans to increase Tuition fees.
I know because I voted for the Lib Dems to stop that happening,again how wrong I was to trust them and I knew the Conservatives were certainly going to at least double them anyway.

I think the post you made above actually sounds more like life and the situation after the last Conservative Govt after 18 years in power to be frank,in my view.
I would say if you cannot get things sorted and fair and right after 18 years of unbroken power then that has to be failure on a grand scale.
No Party in Govt has had that unbroken time in power with good majorities post 1900.
While I defend your right to say it, I also disagree very strongly strongly with your generalisation of so called lazy,workshy chavs too.

The odd thing is that all independent sources state that by 2015 people will be worse off than they were in 2010, doesn't sound like Labour made such a great mess to me then,until the global recession hit and the banking crisis occurred.
However,whoever had been in power in 2008, would have left a massive mess to sort out after that happening.
This Govt though, seems to blame the poorest and weakest in society for that not the powerful bankers who failed miserably and were the large part of the crisis anyway.

I know you have issues with the NHS, possibly personal ones,that is your feleings and your obversations of the NHS,however I see it differently.
I doubt I and others ever could likely convince you that we don't see what you see on the scale you say you have seen it.
I have seen some of it, and read about it but I haven't found it to be the norm as to the NHS, far from it in fact.