[Fenn]

Sorry about this massive waffle, and if I completely bore you

First of all, I would like to say that my opinions are purely based on what I've seen on Channel 5 and through Youtube and on the live stream. Obviously Im aware that this is heavily edited and mediated.

Though I feel that Daley's removal was correct and Hazels subsequent warning was just, I do feel that Daley's actions have been made out to be much more damaging than in fact they were. At least from the episode tonight, I feel that the two were, as Daley said, 'play fighting' and the situation was not physically aggressive on either side up to the point of spanking and pulling down shorts.

If the two had not been previously flirting, I would totally accept this to be completely out of order and unacceptable, however after the flirting 'saga' we saw between the two, I do feel that this was a drunken situation that was not meant to provoke and was somewhat light hearted.

The verbal aspect of the fight was were I feel the nail was hammered into the very much manipulated coffin of Daleys, when he spoke about 'respecting elders' and 'nutting' which of obviously unacceptable for the housemates and could offend viewers. What I would say about this however is that Hazel did seem somewhat unfazed about this up until the point when Daley was called to the diary room.

As correctly highlighted prior to this event by Dexter and Gina, Hazel does seem somewhat of a manipulative snake. Though I in no way condone Daleys actions, I do think that Hazel wanted to eventually invoke a reaction from Daley and use this to her advantage. In someways she's been successful in that sense, but perhaps has brought herself a little out of depth (as is evident from BOTS when they announce Daleys removal from the house).

Finally, we saw Daley in the diary room being evicted. We hear Daley call Hazel a manipulative liar, or at least something of that sort. I feel its something quite symbolic of Daleys journey in the house. Initially we saw him as a funny character we only saw occasionally farting. That we progressively see him being sucked in by Hazel. Then we see him flip and creates a further negative view on him (adding to the BOTS interview with his girlfriend which I've kind of missed out in this). And finally we see his realisation of who in fact Hazel is. Its almost like a circle.

Though I feel Daleys actions were wrong and that violence and physical or psychological threats are completely unacceptable, I do urge the viewing public not to give Hazel the sympathy vote. I now realise that she is totally playing a game that really will probably play into her hands as a result of tonights show.

Thanks for reading this! Sorry I babbled on!

[Johnnyuk123]

I felt sorry for Hazel during tonights show but i still want her out asap cos she does manipulate the guys.
Please note: No man has the right to do what Daley did no matter what to ANYONE. He did wrong and BB was 100% correct to evict him.

[GiRTh]

Excellent post but there is more to this say the LF viewers.

[Fenn]

Please reply, and tell me if you agree or disagree Thank you!!!!!

[RodHull]

I didnt see her as being unfazed by it at all. She was joking back at him to start with but from the point after the shorts thing onward you could see she was becoming more guarded. Her responses were becoming shorter and less jokey such as 'im not afraid of aggressive men' which kind of indicates she did feel threatened. When he had her pinned to the bed she froze, when he got off her she stayed in position for a few seconds as if stunned, then retreated to the other side of the room.

Dont get me wrong I hate Hazel and she deserves no sympathy at all. She teased and led on a man who she imo had no real interest in, but what he did was flat out wrong on every level. Even drunk that sort of anger and behaviour doesnt come from nowhere, he clearly has issues and she just misjudged who she was manipulating.

[cookiemonster]

Daley was aggressive, simple as. you don't get like that. i don't care what anyone says, it wasn't 'play' fighting. he was scary, and abusive. you don't get in someones face like that and say you're going to 'nut' them. and put your hands round their throat.

and this is when cameras were there. god knows what he'd do if they weren't. just glad big brother was there to stop it

stuff like this happens every day behind closed doors. day in, day out. i don't care what anyone says, it's not acceptable and it was DEFINITELY not play fighting

[Marsh.]

People keep bringing up Hazel's reaction to BB's announcement as though it means anything.

When a housemate is warned, they don't announce it to the house and explain the details, that housemate is warned and that is the end of it.

Hazel was warned, sent back to the house. Daley was called to the diary room, guessing they were both presuming he was being warned too. But he was removed for going way too far.

BB then announces he's been removed from the house, news to Hazel and the housemates.

How did people want her to react? She was in shock as they were.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Fenn

Sorry about this massive waffle, and if I completely bore you

First of all, I would like to say that my opinions are purely based on what I've seen on Channel 5 and through Youtube and on the live stream. Obviously Im aware that this is heavily edited and mediated.

Though I feel that Daley's removal was correct and Hazels subsequent warning was just, I do feel that Daley's actions have been made out to be much more damaging than in fact they were. At least from the episode tonight, I feel that the two were, as Daley said, 'play fighting' and the situation was not physically aggressive on either side up to the point of spanking and pulling down shorts.

If the two had not been previously flirting, I would totally accept this to be completely out of order and unacceptable, however after the flirting 'saga' we saw between the two, I do feel that this was a drunken situation that was not meant to provoke and was somewhat light hearted.

The verbal aspect of the fight was were I feel the nail was hammered into the very much manipulated coffin of Daleys, when he spoke about 'respecting elders' and 'nutting' which of obviously unacceptable for the housemates and could offend viewers. What I would say about this however is that Hazel did seem somewhat unfazed about this up until the point when Daley was called to the diary room.

As correctly highlighted prior to this event by Dexter and Gina, Hazel does seem somewhat of a manipulative snake. Though I in no way condone Daleys actions, I do think that Hazel wanted to eventually invoke a reaction from Daley and use this to her advantage. In someways she's been successful in that sense, but perhaps has brought herself a little out of depth (as is evident from BOTS when they announce Daleys removal from the house).

Finally, we saw Daley in the diary room being evicted. We hear Daley call Hazel a manipulative liar, or at least something of that sort. I feel its something quite symbolic of Daleys journey in the house. Initially we saw him as a funny character we only saw occasionally farting. That we progressively see him being sucked in by Hazel. Then we see him flip and creates a further negative view on him (adding to the BOTS interview with his girlfriend which I've kind of missed out in this). And finally we see his realisation of who in fact Hazel is. Its almost like a circle.

Though I feel Daleys actions were wrong and that violence and physical or psychological threats are completely unacceptable, I do urge the viewing public not to give Hazel the sympathy vote. I now realise that she is totally playing a game that really will probably play into her hands as a result of tonights show.

Thanks for reading this! Sorry I babbled on!

I totally agree with you. Hazel is not blameless and as far as I can see given the HMs totally disbelief at his departure, they spent the remainder of the night together in the safe house, which seems a bit odd . I think she played for the sympathy vote in the DR and got a little bit more than she expected with his expulsion.

[Marsh.]

I don't think she played for the sympathy vote, she was honest.

His sudden serious tone took her by surprise, and the fact they were completely alone in that room left her a little confused and shocked.

[south12345]

It was simple role play and play fighting taken to extreme. She said she wanted to see him mad, and that she could handle aggressive men...he was playing that role. She gave back as good as she got.....

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

I don't think she played for the sympathy vote, she was honest.

His sudden serious tone took her by surprise, and the fact they were completely alone in that room left her a little confused and shocked.

Im talking about when she was in the DR and she said she had never seen him like that before. If she was that worried would she have spent the night with him in the safe house??

[Fenn]

I kind of think they are both as bad as each other, but I am fully aware and do totally agree that Daley should no way have done what he did

[Toy Soldier]

I've actually just watched the main show, and I feel like it's quite a complex issue now, more than from the brief bits I'd heard before, and more than you can see from the text transcript of events.

It all started out as a bit of slightly rough foreplay, basically. I actually think they both forgot where they were... most of the banter was this, and even the butt-slap although she was mad that it was so hard. You could tell it was essentially a sex game at that point. It was really awkward to watch.

Then it gets complicated. Because Daley took it to far - he grabbed her neck and started being more aggressive in what he was saying, and she was suddenly out of her depth. But, I'm positive from the footage that from HIS perspective, it was still just "rough foreplay". Some people are into that sort of thing - and I don't think he realised that he had taken it too far beyond what she was comfortable with. *I* didn't even realise until Big Brother called him off and she immediately scarpered across the room looking shocked / scared... that look wasn't fake, it's one of the first genuine expressions I've seen Hazel make.

She was never at risk, he was never going to hurt her, he was just in full sex role play mode (ugh), had forgotten where they were, and mistakenly thought she was up for it. She was up for it at first but he didn't "take the hint" when it had gone too far. The "hint to stop" was when she said "let's be sensible and have a cuddle instead" or something along those lines. She was basically asking to stop the game and he didn't listen.


What a mess, really. I do think it was right for him to go, because he completely forgot himself "in the moment" and that can lead to things going to far like they did. He really needs to watch what happened and learn to see himself better. Hazel needs to learn her limits and how to be clear when they've been reached... because she let herself get scared to the point where she felt powerless, when she could have ended it before it escalated. I've said before and I'll say again; she's just a silly young girl.

I feel sort of bad for both of them. He's been made out to be a monster when really he wouldn't have actually hurt her and wasn't threatening her... he thought he was being "sexy" and that she was enjoying it too. It was a "misunderstanding"... but a potentially dangerous one.

[cookiemonster]

so is this how people get away with abuse nowadays then? label it as 'role play' what a bunch of crap. the only role he was playing was the wife beater

[Fenn]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I've actually just watched the main show, and I feel like it's quite a complex issue now, more than from the brief bits I'd heard before, and more than you can see from the text transcript of events.

It all started out as a bit of slightly rough foreplay, basically. I actually think they both forgot where they were... most of the banter was this, and even the butt-slap although she was mad that it was so hard. You could tell it was essentially a sex game at that point. It was really awkward to watch.

Then it gets complicated. Because Daley took it to far - he grabbed her neck and started being more aggressive in what he was saying, and she was suddenly out of her depth. But, I'm positive from the footage that from HIS perspective, it was still just "rough foreplay". Some people are into that sort of thing - and I don't think he realised that he had taken it too far beyond what she was comfortable with. *I* didn't even realise until Big Brother called him off and she immediately scarpered across the room looking shocked / scared... that look wasn't fake, it's one of the first genuine expressions I've seen Hazel make.

She was never at risk, he was never going to hurt her, he was just in full sex role play mode (ugh), had forgotten where they were, and mistakenly thought she was up for it. She was up for it at first but he didn't "take the hint" when it had gone too far. The "hint to stop" was when she said "let's be sensible and have a cuddle instead" or something along those lines. She was basically asking to stop the game and he didn't listen.


What a mess, really. I do think it was right for him to go, because he completely forgot himself "in the moment" and that can lead to things going to far like they did. He really needs to watch what happened and learn to see himself better. Hazel needs to learn her limits and how to be clear when they've been reached... because she let herself get scared to the point where she felt powerless, when she could have ended it before it escalated. I've said before and I'll say again; she's just a silly young girl.

I feel sort of bad for both of them. He's been made out to be a monster when really he wouldn't have actually hurt her and wasn't threatening her... he thought he was being "sexy" and that she was enjoying it too. It was a "misunderstanding"... but a potentially dangerous one.

^ This

[Fenn]

I might also add that I hope that the housemates don't all form opinions on the situation and therefore feel obliged to not nominate hazel, as a result of only hearing Hazels side of the story.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by cookiemonster

so is this how people get away with abuse nowadays then? label it as 'role play' what a bunch of crap. the only role he was playing was the wife beater

She was playing too at first, quite obviously. Like I said, the point where she was saying "game over" / "this is too dark for me, lets lighten the tone" was when she said they should be sensible and have a hug. The problem was that he wasn't listening by that point and carried on. That IS a problem, obviously, and not to be extreme but... it's often how rape within a couple can occur without the person doing it realising that they have. Not that I'm calling him a rapist now - just that it's concerning that he didn't read the signals well and that he believed she was still enjoying it past the point where she was comfortable.

If she genuinely HAD been up for it then, honestly, there's nothing wrong with the things that were being done / said between two consenting adults.

Why do you think it went on for so long before big brother stopped it? They thought it was mutual and might result in a bit of cover-twitching action. Then someone clocked that she was getting scared and felt trapped, and a stuttering Big Brother desperately called him off. Big Brother let it go too far, too. They should have called him in and cooled him down at the slap on the butt. Hazel wasn't upset then, he could have had a warning and that would have been it, but they wanted to see on-screen sex so they let it progress. Oops.

[CaudleHalbard]

The truth will out somehow. Especially as Hazel was given a formal warning.

Dan will dig and dig in his usual way. Gina will think it's Hazel's fault automatically. Dexter is devastated Daley has gone.

I think there's a fair chance they will all turn on Hazel.

[cookiemonster]

he didn't think Hazel was enjoying it Toy Soldier, that wasn't what he was thinking. he wanted to exert power over her and 'teach' her not to take his duvet etc again

it has nothing to do with her enjoying it, it's to do with power. that's what all abuse is about

[joeysteele]

It is right he went in my view, his actions were inappropriate and in poor taste.
I have little sympathy for Hazel though, she was provoking the situation not calming it down.

BB had no choice to remove him from the house I think but what astounds me is that the house isn't questioning Hazel more as to it, thinking Daley would be back ven with Hazel sitting with a face like thunder.
They really cannot work out that something has happened bad between the 2 of them.
They really are a dull bunch to put it politely.

Brilliant OP though on this thread and a really interesting read too.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

The truth will out somehow. Especially as Hazel was given a formal warning.

Dan will dig and dig in his usual way. Gina will think it's Hazel's fault automatically. Dexter is devastated Daley has gone.

I think there's a fair chance they will all turn on Hazel.

Hmmm... Dan will think there's more to it but it's Hazel so he'll let it slide. Anyone else and he would want to get to the truth but he constantly gives her a free pass.

Gina and Dexter will probably suspect there's more to it because they saw how their flirting escalated on screen when they were in the safe house, so might have a good idea of the "lead up" to the incident. Still... I don't think anyone will want to be seen as condoning something that lead to him being kicked out. Even if they have their suspicions, they'll know that Big Bro must have their reasons for removing only Daley.

[Marsh.]

I don't think there'll be any side taking. Daleys 's gone, she's told Dan. We don't know if the other HMs will be given any full information about it.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Im talking about when she was in the DR and she said she had never seen him like that before. If she was that worried would she have spent the night with him in the safe house??

Exactly!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Im talking about when she was in the DR and she said she had never seen him like that before. If she was that worried would she have spent the night with him in the safe house??

In that moment on the bed he got too serious and scared her, she'd never seen him like that and said so. From the moment BB comes on and onwards he changes back to normal, so they obviously made up afterwards when he went back to joking and playing around/cuddling etc.

But in that moment she was scared, and said so.

I do think people's dislike of Hazel is clouding their judgement. That and the dodgy editing.

[snail69]

Originally Posted by Fenn

Sorry about this massive waffle, and if I completely bore you

First of all, I would like to say that my opinions are purely based on what I've seen on Channel 5 and through Youtube and on the live stream. Obviously Im aware that this is heavily edited and mediated.

Though I feel that Daley's removal was correct and Hazels subsequent warning was just, I do feel that Daley's actions have been made out to be much more damaging than in fact they were. At least from the episode tonight, I feel that the two were, as Daley said, 'play fighting' and the situation was not physically aggressive on either side up to the point of spanking and pulling down shorts.

If the two had not been previously flirting, I would totally accept this to be completely out of order and unacceptable, however after the flirting 'saga' we saw between the two, I do feel that this was a drunken situation that was not meant to provoke and was somewhat light hearted.

The verbal aspect of the fight was were I feel the nail was hammered into the very much manipulated coffin of Daleys, when he spoke about 'respecting elders' and 'nutting' which of obviously unacceptable for the housemates and could offend viewers. What I would say about this however is that Hazel did seem somewhat unfazed about this up until the point when Daley was called to the diary room.

As correctly highlighted prior to this event by Dexter and Gina, Hazel does seem somewhat of a manipulative snake. Though I in no way condone Daleys actions, I do think that Hazel wanted to eventually invoke a reaction from Daley and use this to her advantage. In someways she's been successful in that sense, but perhaps has brought herself a little out of depth (as is evident from BOTS when they announce Daleys removal from the house).

Finally, we saw Daley in the diary room being evicted. We hear Daley call Hazel a manipulative liar, or at least something of that sort. I feel its something quite symbolic of Daleys journey in the house. Initially we saw him as a funny character we only saw occasionally farting. That we progressively see him being sucked in by Hazel. Then we see him flip and creates a further negative view on him (adding to the BOTS interview with his girlfriend which I've kind of missed out in this). And finally we see his realisation of who in fact Hazel is. Its almost like a circle.

Though I feel Daleys actions were wrong and that violence and physical or psychological threats are completely unacceptable, I do urge the viewing public not to give Hazel the sympathy vote. I now realise that she is totally playing a game that really will probably play into her hands as a result of tonights show.

Thanks for reading this! Sorry I babbled on!

Clap! Clap! Clap!

Excellent post. Well thought out and structured well, which matters a lot when you have a lot to say.

Couldn't have put it any better myself.