[Northern Monkey]

You have to remember,He grew up in the 40's and 50's,Using that word was perfectly acceptable in Britain back then when describing black people.There was even a colour called 'n****r brown',You would ask for items in shops in that colour such as cotton and furniture etc.The word is bad today,But Big Ron grew up with it as part of his vocabulary.He made a comment which today is seen as racist when he thought he was off air.Big Ron is NOT racist though.

So Ron is now the poster boy for whats bad about English men? That's laughable.

Football is a religion across many parts of the world, so that can be dismissed. Afraid of anything that isn't English? Well he went and lived and worked abroad. or White? He had black players in his team in an era when this wasn't normal.

Ron can be labeled many things, but it's way too simplistic to throw that around.

[chuff me dizzy]

Hes a lovely man ,nothing he has said in the past changes my views on him

[Kyle]

Also bear in mind football is the working class game, Ron Atkinson will have been brought up and experienced an environment where you would think nothing of throwing around comments like the n word, or ginger in the name of banter. it's not right by any stretch of the imagination and now for the most part we have moved on but a little context is required here.

[CaudleHalbard]

Maybe (just maybe) we should judge him on how he is as a housemate and not for an incident 9 years ago, over which he lost his job?

He certainly doesn't think he's racist. It will be interesting however to see if he shows any other signs of bigotry. If he does, that could be quite telling.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Maybe (just maybe) we should judge him on how he is as a housemate and not for an incident 9 years ago, over which he lost his job?

He certainly doesn't think he's racist. It will be interesting however to see if he shows any other signs of bigotry. If he does, that could be quite telling.

If he does then I will withdraw my support of him within a second I don't subscribe to blind loyalty, however football managers are canny guys and I'm sure he's learned his lesson from the last incident.

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Also bear in mind football is the working class game, Ron Atkinson will have been brought up and experienced an environment where you would think nothing of throwing around comments like the n word, or ginger in the name of banter. it's not right by any stretch of the imagination and now for the most part we have moved on but a little context is required here.

He didn't make these comments on 50's TV. He made the in the 00's. That's the context that people need to understand, not his upbringing. I'm sure many of our parents were brought up in times where racist language was in everyday use, but my parents would never use that.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

He didn't make these comments on 50's TV. He made the in the 00's. That's the context that people need to understand, not his upbringing. I'm sure many of our parents were brought up in times where racist language was in everyday use, but my parents would never use that.

His upbringing made him who he was. My Grandad went to the grave hating Germans even though the war was over years ago people of that generation are stuck in their ways. He made a gaff and he paid for it. He will have got with the times now that's for sure.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Lex

This is a fantastic post Miranda! ...I myself am 84 years of age in a few weeks, and can totally confirm your assessment of "Old Racism"....it wasn't right of course, and perhaps we are being a little liberal with ourselves in describing 'racism' in the distant past as 'not so bad' and 'in much better humour'....but I have to insist that old racism had scant little comparison with todays bile-ridden nastiness towards people of a different creed and colour!

To me....Big Ron is a pillock for saying what he said...but definitely not a racist by today's definition!

And that's really all I have to say on the subject! ...Thanks.

Oh I dunno about that. Boarding houses with 'No Dogs, no blacks, no Irish' signs, and some truly vile things said and shouted at people.

I saw a series of news voc pops in the wake of Windrush and my word, but that was some nasty stuff there. Ordinary, pleasant looking houswives with their faces contorted into expressions of hatred and revulsion as they discussed black and white mixed relationships. Talking about black people like they were animals.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

The truth is most of the older generations, people that lived in times where black stuck with blacks, and interacial mixing was throwned upon are not just going to magically stop having the views they grew up with. What I am trying to say is I am not surprised when a member of the older generation is racist. It's more believable then when people claim they have no prejudice. Of course I'm not saying it's acceptable, i'm just saying you can't be too surprised when a man like Ron has racist views and uses the words. He's going to be what he's going to be. Staying clear of people like him is best.

[GiRTh]

The comment he made was absolutely disgusting TBH and it was right for him to be fired and for people to make their accusation but IMO he's had plenty of chances to demonstrate true pure racism over the years and he hasnt. In fact he did the opposite. He promoted the black players at the expense of the white players.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Read my other post.

..I read it, I still don't understand why that doesn't just mean he's good at his job and knowing the better player though...it doesn't indicate his lack of racism, I'm not saying I definitely think he is because I'm not sure about that but I don't think that indicates anything at all...

[smudgie]

Actions speak louder than words.


He did make a racist remark, but he also pushed for black players in his squad.


Stupid and insensitive remark, but I don't think he is an out and out racist.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Also bear in mind football is the working class game, Ron Atkinson will have been brought up and experienced an environment where you would think nothing of throwing around comments like the n word, or ginger in the name of banter. it's not right by any stretch of the imagination and now for the most part we have moved on but a little context is required here.

..yeah, I think I understand that, which is why I'm undecided about this one now and listening to other people and perhaps people who know more about him than I do..but my context would be to think about my opinions of him, which wouldn't make me go the other way and like or support him either because the remark wasn't said 'generations' ago, it was only 10 years and I don't know anyone in my own friends/family or anyone I know either his age or older who would have ever used that terminology in my lifetime and not know it wasn't wrong and completely derogatory...

[Cherie]

For me I will judge him as to how he is in the house end of. Everyone makes mistakes in life. Hopefully he has learned from his.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I read it, I still don't understand why that doesn't just mean he's good at his job and knowing the better player though...it doesn't indicate his lack of racism, I'm not saying I definitely think he is because I'm not sure about that but I don't think that indicates anything at all...

I don't get how you don't get it. Racism is a straight up choice between a black person and a white person the white person is picked every time no matter how good the black person is no matter how garbage the white person is. Its clear that Ron doesn't respect this philosophy and back in a time when there would have been little fuss he decided to put prejudices to one side and pick the best person for the job.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Also bear in mind football is the working class game, Ron Atkinson will have been brought up and experienced an environment where you would think nothing of throwing around comments like the n word, or ginger in the name of banter. it's not right by any stretch of the imagination and now for the most part we have moved on but a little context is required here.

Coming from one of the poorest, most culturally diverse areas of London, I resent that remark. Since I moved to the country I've heard more blatant racism from the affluent middle classes that I ever heard from the working class.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Livia

Coming from one of the poorest, most culturally diverse areas of London, I resent that remark. Since I moved to the country I've heard more blatant racism from the affluent middle classes that I ever heard from the working class.

Resent it all you want I have still been to football games and heard people say things like "pass it to the black lad" or "watch the darkie". Thankfully it's rare now but it still happens.

I don't hang around with middle class people because I am WORKING CLASS but I have no doubt they can be guilty of racism too, though my main gripe with them is elitism but then again I'm white.

[lime]

It was certainly a racist comment but I don't know enough about him to call him a racist.

I do however question why he felt the need to bring colour into his judgement of the player.As an Afrikaner it reminds me of South Africa were if a white did something stupid they were dumb ,but if a black did the same thing they would be a dumb Kaffer.

[Black Dagger]

I don't think he's a racist... just a moron.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Resent it all you want I have still been to football games and heard people say things like "pass it to the black lad" or "watch the darkie". Thankfully it's rare now but it still happens.

I don't hang around with middle class people because I am WORKING CLASS but I have no doubt they can be guilty of racism too, though my main gripe with them is elitism but then again I'm white.

I'm a West Ham fan, I know what they sing. You get racists everywhere although I'm not sure what's particularly racist about "pass it to the black lad"?

You post asked us to consider poor Ron being born into a working class background, intimating we should make exceptions for him because of that. Erm... no.

[Verbal]

He is no more of a racist than anybody else of his generation. During the 60s & 70s racism was prevalent on family tv shows like love thy neighbour, in sickness and in health, and dozens more. Go onto youtube and watch a couple of episodes of various comedy shows that were shown early evening in the 70s, they are by todays standards very, very shocking.

They also grew up at a very different time, when homosexuality was illegal and racism was part and parcel of everyday life.

If he was in his mid 30s and said what he did it would be justified to vilify him, but a 78 year old man made a naive and silly comment.

Lets be honest, if you go into any workingmans club even now, you will hear such things bandied about like they're going out of fashion, by older men who just plain do not grasp how offensive these words are deemed these days. But every single one of them would not think twice to help someone of colour who was in physical danger. They just see it as a throwaway remark that when they were in their 20s and 30s was seen very differently.

I've heard my own mother, who is 60 years old, about 9 stone and would neither be capable or want to harm a fly say things like 'you look like a n****r' when a fried has come back off holiday. On hearing her say this before I looked at her and said 'you cant say that' and she looked at me daft.

Its a generational thing

He slipped up

Its wrong and he has apologised for it over and over.

Get over it.

[Livia]

LOL "Get over it". Funny how easily that's said when the issue doesn't affect you.

[Black Dagger]

Oh yes I'm sure Marcel should just bloody get over being called a lazy ******.

[GiRTh]

The only time he apologised was on the Wife swap show and that was when his wife told him to.