[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Ok, I'll bite.

Setting aside the fact that neither of these two young women represent the youth of their country in any real sense: I think Courtney is more worrying than Charlotte.

I like her. She is very sweet. But she plays to the 'little girl' sweetness. The thing with the bunny, the artificially high pitched voice.

I see in her a kind of infantilised sexuality.

Charlotte is coarse. Though much of what she talks about (getting so drunk she pisses herself, or vomits) is not much different to a kind of 'laddishness'. With lads, we roll our eyes and say they'll grow out of it. Boys being boys. It is more shocking when it comes from a young lady.

Now, I see a kind of innocence in Charlotte. More so in some ways than with Courtney, who seems to have a very clear idea of how to use every head tilt, leg lift and giggle to her advantage. But Charlotte is not infantilised, she is just young. And her body is a natural body, over which she has absolute control. Her sexuality is one of self-empowerment, it is not hidden behind pink princess naivety.

Of the two, to me, Courtney seems to represent a form of femininity that is deeply damaging to society. An unnatural physical shape achievable only through radical surgery; a sexuality founded in childlike helplessness.

Great post again Dana, I agree, eventhough I quite like Courtney, I do think it's awful that she felt the need to do what she's done to her body at such a young age and also her marrying so young to an old man, with, preumably her parents consent? It's quite sad

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

I maybe wrong, but are you suggesting that she is pandering to paedophilic ideals that are upheld by the male race?

Incidentally, I think this points to a fairly fundamental misunderstanding of what is meant by the term patriarchy.

Men do not create the world for women. We, men and women, create the world for ourselves and each other. We are also created by that world. It is not a case of what men to do to women. But what we do to ourselves.

[Kazanne]

It's probably stories like this that has fuelled some speculation,it's bliddy Louies fault for saying "She's so porn" lol
http://new-magazine.co.uk/posts/view...-X-rated-past-

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Great post again Dana, I agree, eventhough I quite like Courtney, I do think it's awful that she felt the need to do what she's done to her body at such a young age and also her marrying so young to an old man, with, preumably her parents consent? It's quite sad

I feel bad for her. I think she is another example of the price of fame. Her and her parents. You can't get married here intill you are 18 unless your parents okay it. No matter what she may have felt at the time, you can't make a decision like that at 16 IMO.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by thediaryroomchair

Some of the youth in Britain today behave appallingly and have no respect for themselves and for their elders. I have a younger sister and she is an absolute credit, she worked hard in her GCSEs and BTEC and does not answer back and is very career minded. Unlike some I see in my local town who insult me for the team I support using four letter expletives to boot.

And so it has always been. yea, even unto the middle ages. And further back in fact.

For as long as people have written down their thoughts on the world, there have been people writing complaints about the 'youth of today'.

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”

Socrates [469BC-399BC]

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Incidentally, I think this points to a fairly fundamental misunderstanding of what is meant by the term patriarchy.

Men do not create the world for women. We, men and women, create the world for ourselves and each other. We are also created by that world. It is not a case of what men to do to women. But what we do to ourselves.

I'm not quite sure what that has to do with anything I have said, but ok. I took issue with your use of the word infantilised. Which to me, is you suggesting that anybody who doesnt like the kind of woman Charlotte is, is mentally damaged in such a way that they can only be around women who they can feel superior to.

[DanaC]

No, that's really not what I meant, CH.



The tradition of infantilised female sexuality is a very long one. In Christian cultures we have a strange dichotomy of respect for motherhood and disdain for female sexuality: Mary is both a mother (good) and a virgin (good). She is innocence and motherhood combined.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

I feel bad for her. I think she is another example of the price of fame. Her and her parents. You can't get married here intill you are 18 unless your parents okay it. No matter what she may have felt at the time, you can't make a decision like that at 16 IMO.

absolutely agree, what kind of parents think A - It's a good idea for their 16 year old to get married at all but B- to a 50 year old man?? That's pretty sickening if you ask me

[MachoPoodle]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

I maybe wrong, but are you suggesting that she is pandering to paedophilic ideals that are upheld by the male race?

Male race? What is that supposed to mean?

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by DanaC

No, that's really not what I meant, CH.



The tradition of infantilised female sexuality is a very long one. In Christian cultures we have a strange dichotomy of respect for motherhood and disdain for female sexuality: Mary is both a mother (good) and a virgin (good). She is innocence and motherhood combined.

No problem, Dana. I completely respect your viewpoints and the way you are able to put them across, which is a rarity on here. Thank you for clarifying.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by MachoPoodle

Male race? What is that supposed to mean?

Haha!We Males are the master race!lol

[Roy Mars III]

I find Charlotte's personality and manners disgusting, but I would think the same if she was a man. There is no need to talk like that in a civilized society. I do not even want to hear the word pee mentioned ever. Her manners are appalling, and I am almost sick even thinking about them.

Courtney is immature, but I can totally understand her. She grew up in a small town Christian American town and was homeschooled part of her life. She grew up differently than anyone else in there. She has never really grew up or had a chance too. She got married at 16, she never had a chance to fend for herself

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by MachoPoodle

Male race? What is that supposed to mean?

Case in point.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

So by your assumption all adults that are into toys, games, comics, anime etc are weird, right? Ok

Doesn't make it wrong. She is harming nobody.

I have seen nothing that suggests she is calculating in any way. Drawing that conclusion says more about you than it does her.


Two pennies short of a sixpence? She is 18 years old and a millionaire.

You seem to be contradicting yourself - one minute she is 'innocent' and childlike - the next your comments about her age and financial status - by marriage - suggest she is calculating and knows exactly what she is doing, which is what the majority of people have thought all along.

She is simply conforming to an image that many men seem to find attractive and got her a very wealthy hubby. A sexy body together with an innocent and obedient mind seems to wreak havoc with male hormones. Many are intimidated by strong, intelligent women - hardly rocket science.

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

You seem to be contradicting yourself - one minute she is 'innocent' and childlike - the next your comments about her age and financial status - by marriage - suggest she is calculating and knows exactly what she is doing, which is what the majority of people have thought all along.

She is simply conforming to an image that many men seem to find attractive and got her a very wealthy hubby. A sexy body together with an innocent and obedient mind seems to wreak havoc with male hormones. Many are intimidated by strong, intelligent women - hardly rocket science.

It does not suggest she is calculating, it suggests she is intelligent. A person can be both innocent and intelligent.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

No idea, using what she has to earn a living is not a crime. There are men out there stupid enough to line her pockets, so good luck to her.

That is completely at odds with you comments of her being 'innocent'. So now porn stars are innocent. I don't think our definitions of 'innocent' are in tune.

[Ammi]

..I really don't see any comparison between Charlotte and Courtney to say that one is a 'good person' and one is a 'bad person' because neither or 'typical' representatives of young people in general but in a completely different way...

..I would be devastated if my daughter used language/behaved like Charlotte did but I would be equally devastated if she was married at 16yrs to a guy almost three times her age and had surgery to her body by 18yrs when she was a totally beautiful girl in the first place..I do see in Charlotte a nice person as well though, as I do with Courtney...what she does/how she behaves doesn't hurt society, it only hurts herself in what people think of her because of it...

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

That is completely at odds with you comments of her being 'innocent'. So now porn stars are innocent. I don't think our definitions of 'innocent' are in tune.

She is not a porn star. Yet more assumptions.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

It does not suggest she is calculating, it suggests she is intelligent. A person can be both innocent and intelligent.

Your argument is all over the place and makes no sense. If as you suggest she is intelligent enough to pick a wealthy husband - that is calculating. Innocent people marry for love, not money.

[MachoPoodle]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

Case in point.

How, exactly?

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Your argument is all over the place and makes no sense. If as you suggest she is intelligent enough to pick a wealthy husband - that is calculating. Innocent people marry for love, not money.

How do you know she didn't marry for love? Were you there?

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

How do you know she didn't marry for love? Were you there?

How predictable was that comment - evidence of your meandering arguments.

You were the one who said she was intelligent enough to be a millionaire at 18 - implying she knew exactly what she was doing. Bearing in mind the way she achieved that millionare status was by marrying a very wealthy man old enough to be her father- your words speak for themselves.

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

How predictable was that comment - evidence of your meandering arguments.

You were the one who said she was intelligent enough to be a millionaire at 18 - implying she knew exactly what she was doing. Bearing in mind the way she achieved that millionare status was by marrying a very wealthy man old enough to be her father- your words speak for themselves.

How do you know the way she acquired her wealth was purely through her husband?

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by CynicalHermit

How do you know the way she acquired her wealth was purely through her husband?

Unless her family were wealthy or she had some kind of high profile 'career' (please enlighten) - then she married into money. Not complicated. If she did have a 'career' at 16 - what was it - glamour modelling or porn? Very innocent.

You can't have it both ways - all the evidence points to her either being very calculating or as thick as a brick.

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Unless her family were wealthy or she had some kind of high profile 'career' (please enlighten) - then she married into money. Not complicated. If she did have a 'career' at 16 - what was it - glamour modelling or porn? Very innocent.

You can't have it both ways - all the evidence points to her either being very calculating or as thick as a brick.

Your entire argument for the past 3 or 4 posts has been nothing but assumptions.

She married for love, it happened to be to a millionaire. In order to be socialising in those kinds of circles her family must also be wealthy. She can't help being born into it.

Christians take the institution of marriage very seriously. I doubt very much she is as fickle as you would like her to be.

Please, show me 'all this evidence'