[Vicky.]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...ght-first-time

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigat...ailing-in.html

This system is NOT working at all IMO

Having had dealings with ATOS myself in the past, and having a few friends who had the exact same problem...I think its about time they started to do their jobs right.

The Government has boasted that more than half of new *claimants are found "fit to work" - failing to mention that over 300,000 have appealed the decision and almost 40% have won.

From the second link.

This part is absolutely shocking to me. Obviously they would always have a margin of error, but you would think it would be MUCH lower, maybe around 5% of people who appeal the decision having it awarded in their favour. The 40% wont include those who struggle on JSA/nothing for 3 months and then sign straight back to ESA/IB (under their GPs consent of course, you cant get on those benefits without sick notes) either. My friend wasnt even aware that you could appeal the decision, so god knows how many would pass if everyone was aware that you could go to tribunal.

ATOS are meant to give a medical assessment...however they didnt do that with me at all...and it seems they dont with others either. The main problem is, their 'medical professionals' range from ex-GPs to retired midwives. Now seriously...how is a retired midwife fit to diagnose anything besides pregnancy related problems?

At my medical a few years back, the person who 'examined' me asked a series of questions, and that was it. Took about half an hour. How on earth that is more reliable to the DWP than an actual GPs report, or a report from the mental health people I was seeing is beyond me.

I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety attacks. I could not actually leave the house on my own, and sometimes I couldnt leave the house even with someone else. I had many thoughts of suicide and self harm, and started to become quite violent also. I had next to no concentration, got really panicky if the phone rang or someone knocked at the door, couldnt cook for myself as I would foget the cooker was on etc. and some days I couldnt even get out of bed. I cancelled my first medical because I couldnt bare to leave the house at all that whole week...my condition was quite strange, sometimes I would feel relatively normal, other times I thought I should actually be sectioned. I went to a medical a week or so later instead. The person who asked my questions LIED completely. She said that I had said I went alone to the shop everyday to buy bread, milk and a bottle of wine for myself. I had stated many times that I never went out alone, I never mentioned bread or milk, and I certainly didnt mention wine, as I didnt even drink it.

The more stories come out about ATOS, the more I am convinced they are paid simply to find people fit for work, rather than to assess them in an honest and fair way. I think that if you do not have an obvious physical disability that they cant brush under the carpet then you are pretty much screwed.

You would think that the DWP/government would realise that having ATOS overruled 40% of the time by REAL medical professionals (tribunal is made of 4 people..including one an actual GP. I was lucky enough to have a GP who specialised in mental health on mine, so I obviously passed pretty much immediately) shows that they are not doing their jobs right. This is, of course, assuming that they are contracted to actually assess people rather than get people off ESA/IB

What do you think?

[Vicky.]

I'm actually quite tempted to use that 'freedom of information' thing that got posted and ask if ATOS staff get bonuses for each person they fail....that would make a lot of sense.

May also ask why they are so against anyone taking a recording of the assessment...to the point where if they find out you are recording they will stop your medical immediately

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...ght-first-time

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigat...ailing-in.html

This system is NOT working at all IMO

Having had dealings with ATOS myself in the past, and having a few friends who had the exact same problem...I think its about time they started to do their jobs right.

From the second link.

This part is absolutely shocking to me. Obviously they would always have a margin of error, but you would think it would be MUCH lower, maybe around 5% of people who appeal the decision having it awarded in their favour. The 40% wont include those who struggle on JSA/nothing for 3 months and then sign straight back to ESA/IB (under their GPs consent of course, you cant get on those benefits without sick notes) either. My friend wasnt even aware that you could appeal the decision, so god knows how many would pass if everyone was aware that you could go to tribunal.

ATOS are meant to give a medical assessment...however they didnt do that with me at all...and it seems they dont with others either. The main problem is, their 'medical professionals' range from ex-GPs to retired midwives. Now seriously...how is a retired midwife fit to diagnose anything besides pregnancy related problems?

At my medical a few years back, the person who 'examined' me asked a series of questions, and that was it. Took about half an hour. How on earth that is more reliable to the DWP than an actual GPs report, or a report from the mental health people I was seeing is beyond me.

I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety attacks. I could not actually leave the house on my own, and sometimes I couldnt leave the house even with someone else. I had many thoughts of suicide and self harm, and started to become quite violent also. I had next to no concentration, got really panicky if the phone rang or someone knocked at the door, couldnt cook for myself as I would foget the cooker was on etc. and some days I couldnt even get out of bed. I cancelled my first medical because I couldnt bare to leave the house at all that whole week...my condition was quite strange, sometimes I would feel relatively normal, other times I thought I should actually be sectioned. I went to a medical a week or so later instead. The person who asked my questions LIED completely. She said that I had said I went alone to the shop everyday to buy bread, milk and a bottle of wine for myself. I had stated many times that I never went out alone, I never mentioned bread or milk, and I certainly didnt mention wine, as I didnt even drink it.

The more stories come out about ATOS, the more I am convinced they are paid simply to find people fit for work, rather than to assess them in an honest and fair way. I think that if you do not have an obvious physical disability that they cant brush under the carpet then you are pretty much screwed.

You would think that the DWP/government would realise that having ATOS overruled 40% of the time by REAL medical professionals (tribunal is made of 4 people..including one an actual GP. I was lucky enough to have a GP who specialised in mental health on mine, so I obviously passed pretty much immediately) shows that they are not doing their jobs right. This is, of course, assuming that they are contracted to actually assess people rather than get people off ESA/IB

What do you think?

That is exactly the case in my mind. They obviously have targets to meet, and they are trained in ways to get people off ESA etc. I think it goes by some points system. Amazing that doctors/consultants etc can deem someone unfit to work, but their "trained" staff can overthrow such a decision after a half hour verbal interview with no physical examination at all. They just want the numbers down.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I'm actually quite tempted to use that 'freedom of information' thing that got posted and ask if ATOS staff get bonuses for each person they fail....that would make a lot of sense.

May also ask why they are so against anyone taking a recording of the assessment...to the point where if they find out you are recording they will stop your medical immediately

Do it vicky, it's your right...Ask as many question as you like they have a legal obligation to disclose any information they have on you.
Rather odd that, makes you think they dont want a record of the convo or something...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva

That is exactly the case in my mind. They obviously have targets to meet, and they are trained in ways to get people off ESA etc. I think it goes by some points system. Amazing that doctors/consultants etc can deem someone unfit to work, but their "trained" staff can overthrow such a decision after a half hour verbal interview with no physical examination at all. They just want the numbers down.

It does. At my medical I was given 0 points. You need 15 to pass. It seems the majority who are failed are failed with '0 points' too...seems quite strange to me. You would think that some would pick up a few points if these medicals were fair...especially given that the tribunal awards points also, so clearly they award at least 15 in 40% of the cases. 0 to 15 is quite a jump

[Vicky.]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17590426

Another.

Good to see unions are catching on though, though whether they get anywhere or not is anyones guess. The government (whoevers in power) generally seem to be experts at sticking their heads in the sand about important stuff

[Kizzy]

Have a look through this,
http://dwpexamination.wordpress.com/atos-checklist/

I took this comment from a debate in parliament..
http://www.publications.parliament.u...20201h0001.htm

The Atos half-yearly report for 2011 was very upbeat. It noted that operating margins had increased year on year to €166 million—an 11% increase from the first half of 2010. Its operating margin in the UK in 2011 was a healthy €34 million. The outlook for the second half of 2011 was similarly rosy: Atos expected profits to increase by 6.2%. I say all that not to congratulate Atos and marvel at how successful it has been, but to preface my next remarks.

The figures for PROFIT are in euros as it is a french company, not sure how you make a profit from the sick and disabled though....

[Vicky.]

Last December, Citizens Advice published a damning report on the work capability assessment. One of its recommendations was that financial sanctions should be imposed on Atos for the number of incorrect assessments that it makes. As we all know, the taxpayer forks out millions of pounds on the appeals process, to clear up the incorrect decisions initially made by Atos.

--

Cant see that ever happening unfortunately even though its total common sense, but that would solve a LOT of the current problems I think

[Kizzy]

Just stop outsourcing! its not working.. It ends up costing the government more to investigate the company responsible.
Either that or its a clever rouse to make those in the most need wait months and months for reassessment in the hope they will be dead! Wouldn't surprise me at all...

[InOne]

mmmm at first I had a pretty bad time with them. And then I sent them some mad letter and showed them I'd been in Hospital so they got off my back then and I didn't have to send in sick notes. But still, every 3 months I have to go in, explain everything ALL over again (for some reason they don't record stuff) luckily I got a nice Irish woman last time. It's worse when you get someone who's German or something, they just seem to have no empathy at all. All in all the system is very flawed, they call it the 'revolving door'. Go see them, fail the medical, appeal, win the appeal, 3 months later get seen again and fail again. So it just goes on and on like that for some people, the worst thing of all it's not an actual doctor that makes the final decision.

[Vicky.]

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index/right_first_time

CAB investigation, also worth a read

(getting really into researching them now )

[joeysteele]

I have been to one of these assessments with a friend who is disabled, I went into the assessment with him too.
I won't say all that went on but all I will say is had he not had someone with him, he likely may have been deemed able to do something,it seems all they do is tick boxes really.

I found the whole thing cold and a massive lack of any compassion was evident. I am all for finding scroungers but these tests are wrong, they should be completely looked at again as to content and format,it would also help if they showed a bit of respect to the people who had took the time to go along with someone for these tests/assessments and not treat them like 2nd class citizens.

What I find the most aggravating and annoying thing about these updated tests/assessments is that they have the support too of the Liberal Democrats who if they were to ever bother going and sitting in on some of them may get a real eye opener as to how degrading and awful they are.
What they must cost to carry out too is another element that must be extremely high.However what the subsequent appeals must also cost is another very major factor to be taken into consideration.
As Vicky said, most of the appeals are upheld fully or benefits are re-instated again until further assessments are done,showing they were still very wrong to remove the benefits are declare the individuals fit for work.

There have been many warnings from MPs and other Groups saying these assessments are unfair and wrong,hopefully some compassion and reason is going to come forward on this.

I was talking to people with family who have dementia and others who have mental illness, as they rightly point out, it can take ages to persuade someone with those complaints to even go and see a Doctor, never mind trust one.
To then be forced to go through these emotionless clinical assessments is only going to do more harm than good.

They are wrong and Vicky is right,I just wish people who thought they were a good idea actually tried to go along with someone to one or more of them. It is claimed you are seen by a Doctor but that the decisions are made by others,as InOne said, however it is the original assessment done by the person you see that the person making the decision as being fit for any work bases their decision on, thereby what boxes are in effect ticked or crossed.

[Vicky.]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...echnical-chaos



More news on this farce of a system we have in place at the moment.

Now we have a right to have the 'medical' recorded, but theres only 1 machine per 1000 people who get interviewed? What a ****ing joke.

I'm having hell on at the moment with my mother in law. Shes been on long term IB for severe anxiety and bad nerves...is virtually housebound, plus really bad asthma (has 3 or 4 bad attacks a day). Now IB is being scrapped, she has to move onto ESA. So she is going to have one of these 'medicals' in a few months time, which Im almost sure she will get 0 points(as this is standard) and have to go to tribunal. so I expect to have to deal with the system AGAIN quite soon. I expect to be fed a load of lies and bull about the machines not working and so on.

ATOS are clearly ****ting themselves because they cant just lie their way to finding someone fit like they usually do...if theres audio recordings to back up the claimant. Hence the crappy excuses they are coming out with.

Oh dear, not so many bonuses for meeting their targets this year eh?

[Vicky.]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/o...w-8084799.html

Tara Flood, a former Paralympic gold medal-winning swimmer, said: "Atos must think that by sponsoring the Paralympics they will convince everyone that they are only here to support disabled people rather than what they actual do, which is destroy people's lives."

Too bloody true.

[Vicky.]

I feel like Im the only one bothered about this anymore, but I will post this anyway

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...m-8084638.html

Found it ****ing hilarious and so spot on

[Livia]

You're not the only one bothered, Vicky. ATOS are a complete disgrace.

[Kizzy]

Was just looking for a link I posted in relation to this in shauns slow news day thread, where the BBC's websites main story was on birds attending funerals.... on the day that protesters stormed into ATOS offices. Can't find it though now

[Kizzy]

Found it...
The media do seem to be trying to hush it up somewhat to not detract from the paralympics though.
http://www.channel4.com/news/disabil...ic-sponsors-hq

[Vicky.]

Yeah I was reading about the protests yesterday. Apparently the police have broke some guy in a wheelchairs shoulder this time :S

Its seriously got to end. I'm hoping that the paralympics is bringing it all to more peoples attention...as some of the athletes are hiding their atos sponsoprship clothes and that apparently. Everyone needs to know what this horrible company are doing to our disabled tbh...and hopefully it gets sorted, but I really doubt it.

Since Cameron and Osbourne got booed too...Im hoping when they mention ATOS at the closing ceremony the whole place shakes with the amunt of boos. This will show me that the message IS getting out there

[arista]

Vicky there is a new Health Sec. today
its J.H.

He will change Atos to better policy.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

Vicky there is a new Health Sec. today
its J.H.

He will change Atos to better policy.

I very much doubt it, but we can hope.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I very much doubt it, but we can hope.

Thats the Spirit

[Kizzy]

Jeremy Hunt!! are you serious he is as bent as a £9 note!
Murdoch had him in his pocket and so will ATOS...

[Kizzy]

This link seems more apt here...
http://www.socialworkfuture.org/inde...elfare-reforms
QUOTE:
''Due to the growing public outrage the government finally offered a token gesture in the form of an Emeritus Professor, Professor Malcolm Harrington, and his annual report recommendations are the only recommendations that the government reluctantly accept. Yet, twelve months following the Professor’s initial report, there has been no improvement in the unacceptable experiences of patients who must tolerate an assessment by this private company that remains totally free from all public scrutiny, by either the General Medical Council (GMC) or the Care Quality Commission. The only redress for the victims of this government imposed medical tyranny is to personally report a named doctor to the GMC, who will only accept complaints against Atos medical staff if the assessment decision has been overturned at Appeal…''

[arista]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Jeremy Hunt!! are you serious he is as bent as a £9 note!
Murdoch had him in his pocket and so will ATOS...

We will see