[Z]

Originally Posted by Withasnow

My only point was that it wouldn't make the buyer any less of an inconsiderate douche regardless of the policy or shop. Hence this whole story is only a problem for inconsiderate arseholes.

Why would you be an inconsiderate douche for going to a supermarket and queuing to pay for your chosen groceries? That's... what you do in supermarkets. Your posts don't make any sense - how are you supposed to know if someone won't serve you because of their religious beliefs? Unless M&S puts signs above the tills saying that someone won't serve you if you have pork or alcohol on you (which to me isn't all that different from making people wear coloured triangles but whatever) - you're having to queue and wait and see if you'll have to queue again somewhere else just in case your cashier has some issue with what you're buying. What happened to the customer is always right? Why does somebody else get to dictate what I want to buy from a shop? You don't have to be of a certain age to buy pork. The law states you have to be 18 to buy alcohol and you have to do it before 10pm, and you can be IDed if you look under 25. Nothing in there about being able to refuse to serve it to someone because you don't personally drink alcohol.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Withasnow

All you're saying is "do something you find morally wrong or be jobless."
All M&S is saying is "If you're morally offending an employee, you may have to wait an extra 5 minutes to be served"

Honestly, you're upset because inconsiderate arseholes MAY have to wait an extra 5 minutes to be served.

Walking into a shop to give them your money to buy a product THAT THE SHOP PUTS ON ITS SHELVES is inconsiderate?

Surely, if someone thinks it's against their religion/beliefs to be serving/touching certain produce then surely they shouldn't be working in a shop that sells those items to begin with.

[Z]

And why is the option "do something you find morally wrong or be jobless." You could work in another department of M&S, or you could work somewhere else. It isn't a case of touch pork or be unemployed, for the love of God

[Jords]

If I ever got refused I think I would laugh and call them an idiot to be quite honest.

Although my Muslim flatmate (who drinks alcohol...) once was looking through my Sainsburys bag, picked up my ham and quickly put it down with a look of disgust on his face. I said to him "are you an idiot? its in a packet" in a joke sort of fashion, and he just said that he "cant" so I do wonder if theres something about handling it?

Anyway still ridiculous, poor little piggies

[Z]

Originally Posted by Elf Ears

If I ever got refused I think I would laugh and call them an idiot to be quite honest.

Although my Muslim flatmate (who drinks alcohol...) once was looking through my Sainsburys bag, picked up my ham and quickly put it down with a look of disgust on his face. I said to him "are you an idiot? its in a packet" in a joke sort of fashion, and he just said that he "cant" so I do wonder if theres something about handling it?

Anyway still ridiculous, poor little piggies

I think Islam's the worst for causing conflicting problems for young people, followed very closely by Roman Catholicism. I know plenty of Muslims who get drunk, smoke weed etc and then get funny about certain things that Islam dictates that they shouldn't do... I'm not judging anyone but c'mon, if you're gonna break some of the rules, you might as well not care about the rest. This is why I'm so glad I wasn't brought up with a religion, I'd hate to feel like I was disobeying some higher power for just living how I want to live.

[Nedusa]

This is a frankly ridiculous news story , if M&S sell it then ALL their staff must be prepared to put these goods through the Checkout. The till checkout operator is not at liberty to refuse any items regardless of personal persuasion .

If they do they should be sacked immediately , if their Manager has allowed staff to excempt certain items on personal grounds then the Manager in question should be sacked .

If the Company has allowed this then a Nationwide boycott should be enforced .

Seems in this case the Manager was at fault , I see a new job vacancy opening up in this store....!!!!

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by The baby Zeesus

I think Islam's the worst for causing conflicting problems for young people, followed very closely by Roman Catholicism. I know plenty of Muslims who get drunk, smoke weed etc and then get funny about certain things that Islam dictates that they shouldn't do... I'm not judging anyone but c'mon, if you're gonna break some of the rules, you might as well not care about the rest. This is why I'm so glad I wasn't brought up with a religion, I'd hate to feel like I was disobeying some higher power for just living how I want to live.

Just like homosexual Christians. Confuses the hell out of me. Each to their own an all that but why would you want to be part of a religious institution that doesn't like your lifestyle.


Anyway looks like M & S are taking the easy way out and saying it's their fault for not putting her in the right department. Though why you would work for a company like that if you refuse to handle certain meat items is beyond me.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by The baby Zeesus

I think Islam's the worst for causing conflicting problems for young people, followed very closely by Roman Catholicism. I know plenty of Muslims who get drunk, smoke weed etc and then get funny about certain things that Islam dictates that they shouldn't do... I'm not judging anyone but c'mon, if you're gonna break some of the rules, you might as well not care about the rest. This is why I'm so glad I wasn't brought up with a religion, I'd hate to feel like I was disobeying some higher power for just living how I want to live.

how would that make sense? everyone sins, it's about doing as little unlawful things as you can and doing more good deeds than bad. no one is perfect so why would they want to worsen themselves?

Originally Posted by ChristMASS EFFECT

Just like homosexual Christians. Confuses the hell out of me. Each to their own an all that but why would you want to be part of a religious institution that doesn't like your lifestyle.

do you really think it's that simple? these people are probably brought up as Christians and once it becomes such a huge part of your life it's hard to turn away. also homosexuality being a sin is just. an. intepretation. some people don't believe it's an issue, and some branches of Christianity are more accepting. and if they do believe it's an issue, then like I said to zee, everyone sins and they'd obviously try and lessen any other sinning they do

wow are you people new to religion or something?

[Kyle]

By brought up you obviously mean indoctrinated and as for interpretation it's the biggest get out of jail free card going.

Oh dear that part of the bible looks difficult to implement I'll just disregard it...

[Marcus.]

she was stuck bettew a rock and a hard place

[Z]

Originally Posted by Salman!

how would that make sense? everyone sins, it's about doing as little unlawful things as you can and doing more good deeds than bad. no one is perfect so why would they want to worsen themselves

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear - if you're happy to disregard certain rules dictated by your particular religion, e.g. drinking alcohol, then why would you kick up a fuss about e.g. not having sex before marriage? Adhering to the rules of your religion is fine, but there's this bizarre defensive logic that comes with people who are happy to disregard some aspects of their religion - so they overcompensate by being militant about other aspects. I went to school with a boy who smoked weed all the time and then he would be condescending about people getting drunk. Why not just accept that your relationship with your religion is yours and yours alone? Going off on a bit of a tangent now but my point wasn't "oh if you're going to break one rule then you might as well break all of them", it was "if you're going to break one rule then you might as well stop pretending to care about the rules and just live your life."

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by ShiningStar

she was stuck bettew a rock and a hard place

Or a P45.

Sorry chaps I can't ethically do my job.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by ChristMASS EFFECT

By brought up you obviously mean indoctrinated and as for interpretation it's the biggest get out of jail free card going.

Oh dear that part of the bible looks difficult to implement I'll just disregard it...

You do realise how ignorant you sound? Why are atheists so critical and insulting all the time? It's so easy for you to just sit back and laugh isn't it

You have no place judging someone on their beliefs, especially when they know more about it than you do. I bet you don't even know what the verses regarding homosexuality in the bible are

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by The baby Zeesus

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear - if you're happy to disregard certain rules dictated by your particular religion, e.g. drinking alcohol, then why would you kick up a fuss about e.g. not having sex before marriage? Adhering to the rules of your religion is fine, but there's this bizarre defensive logic that comes with people who are happy to disregard some aspects of their religion - so they overcompensate by being militant about other aspects. I went to school with a boy who smoked weed all the time and then he would be condescending about people getting drunk. Why not just accept that your relationship with your religion is yours and yours alone? Going off on a bit of a tangent now but my point wasn't "oh if you're going to break one rule then you might as well break all of them", it was "if you're going to break one rule then you might as well stop pretending to care about the rules and just live your life."

oh I kinda understand what you're saying now, i dunno i guess it just makes them feel better, but yeah it's stupid and hypocritical, I haven't come across people like that though. and yeah anyone who is critical of how other people live their lives needs to mind their own business, Islam does teach to not be judgemental

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Salman!

You do realise how ignorant you sound? Why are atheists so critical and insulting all the time? It's so easy for you to just sit back and laugh isn't it

You have no place judging someone on their beliefs, especially when they know more about it than you do. I bet you don't even know what the verses regarding homosexuality in the bible are

I've see them, and it's pretty clear it considers men having sex with one another an 'abomination'.

And so you aren't allowed an opinion on organised religion unless you belong to it?

Or maybe it's cos I disagree with you and you don't like it.

[Me. I Am Salman]

well that tells me you haven't because it is definitely not as simple as that, you should probably read this http://christianteens.about.com/od/w...Homosexual.htm

You're not giving your opinion on religion, you're giving an opinion on the relationship people have with it, like saying Christian gays are using a get out jail card when you have no clue what their reasoning is. Can you not see how that can offend some people?

And what do you mean you disagree with me and 'I don't like it'? I'm not a Christian, this has nothing to personally do with me, I'm just not a judgemental ignorant person.

[Donovan.]

Originally Posted by The baby Zeesus

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear - if you're happy to disregard certain rules dictated by your particular religion, e.g. drinking alcohol, then why would you kick up a fuss about e.g. not having sex before marriage? Adhering to the rules of your religion is fine, but there's this bizarre defensive logic that comes with people who are happy to disregard some aspects of their religion - so they overcompensate by being militant about other aspects. I went to school with a boy who smoked weed all the time and then he would be condescending about people getting drunk. Why not just accept that your relationship with your religion is yours and yours alone? Going off on a bit of a tangent now but my point wasn't "oh if you're going to break one rule then you might as well break all of them", it was "if you're going to break one rule then you might as well stop pretending to care about the rules and just live your life."

Yeah, I'm definitely not the best catholic, but I don't know. Growing up I was told certain 'rules' every day and those are the things that I wouldn't even think of breaking even today. Then there are sins that I feel nothing about, not scared or worried or disappointed. It probably just comes down to which 'rules' my family was comfortable enforcing.

And yes I agree so much that religion should everybody's own personal experience and beliefs. It loses it's entire meaning if your just following a certain set of rules, because you have to, instead of actually believing in it.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Salman!

well that tells me you haven't because it is definitely not as simple as that, you should probably read this http://christianteens.about.com/od/w...Homosexual.htm

You're not giving your opinion on religion, you're giving an opinion on the relationship people have with it, like saying Christian gays are using a get out jail card when you have no clue what their reasoning is. Can you not see how that can offend some people?

And what do you mean you disagree with me and 'I don't like it'? I'm not a Christian, this has nothing to personally do with me, I'm just not a judgemental ignorant person.

Your the first person to jump in when people criticise organised religion like your on some sort of 'crusade' to clear it's name.

You just have to face it that some people don't have a very high opinion of organised religion and if that offends anybody then good.

But don't worry you'll get the last laugh because your religion is the right one I'm sure

[Me. I Am Salman]

Why are you ignoring my post? You clearly weren't talking about religion on it's own. Or maybe you realise you were wrong and are too immature to admit so you're getting personal like a child

And yes I do because there's so much ignorance and misguided judgements on here. The point of a forum is to make discussion. If you have a problem with it deal with it cuz I'm not gonna stop

[Me. I Am Salman]

Oh and it's you're*

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Salman!

Why are you ignoring my post? You clearly weren't talking about religion on it's own. Or maybe you realise you were wrong and are too immature to admit so you're getting personal like a child

And yes I do because there's so much ignorance and misguided judgements on here. The point of a forum is to make discussion. If you have a problem with it deal with it cuz I'm not gonna stop

Because I can't be assed to read a load of Christian speculation about twisting words in scripture to suit an agenda and don't accuse me of getting personal like a child considering you and some of your buddies kept your heads down over some of the sh*t said in the last major scandal and let another take all the rap.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Then you are in no place to make any sort of judgement. Goodbye

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by ChristMASS EFFECT

don't accuse me of getting personal like a child considering you and some of your buddies kept your heads down over some of the sh*t said in the last major scandal and let another take all the rap.

what? why don't you expand

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by ChristMASS EFFECT

and as for interpretation it's the biggest get out of jail free card going.

Oh dear that part of the bible looks difficult to implement I'll just disregard it...

That's not what it means.

It means the bible doesn't outright refer to certain things and different denominations of the church interpret something differently. Especially when it comes to the modern way of life.

How else do you think Christianity has branches off into different paths?

It's not disregarding anything it's one religion thinking something is fine and another thinking otherwise. No different to this forum where we all watch the same episode of Big Brother and come out with 100 different opinions and interpretations on it.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Salman!

Oh and it's you're*

Sentences usually end with a full stop, too. If you're going to talk up the game, sit down and play the damn thing.