[arista]

China can not stop Japan back in 1937
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

1941 early morning attack on Americans relaxing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_attacks


So its No Wonder America used them
For Atomic Bombs Tests (to stay in front of the weapons race)
they were so pleased they
bombed them again for good measure


Sign Of The Times

[Z]

I find it interesting reading about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I can't remember which one it was but one of the two of them wasn't the original planned target for the bomb, it was due to bad weather that it was dropped where it was, there were clouds obscuring the view of whichever city it was that was meant to be bombed... Such an awe inspiring awful thing to do, saddens me that there are countries with nuclear arsenals today and that they're still used as a tool to threaten others.

[Roy Mars III]

Hiroshima and Nagasaki had less to do with Japan surrendering than people say. While the destruction was terrible, it was pretty much the same as the fire bombing the US had been doing for a while(if you look at pics of Hiroshima and the earlier bombing of Tokyo they are very similar). It just happened much faster with nukes. Japan would have surrendered soon even with out the bombs. They were too far gone at that point, plus the threat of full on war with the U.S. and Russia

Apparently pearl harbour happened on a really cold day. There was a real nip in the air.

[Kyle]

Been reading up on Japan's use of 'comfort women' during the war with China and WWII. Some very harrowing stuff.

[Livia]

Have a read about Japanese prisoner of war camps and their treatment of prisoners. I think that says more about the Japanese than anything else.

[smeagol]

china still hasn't forgiven them for what they did. what did they did to the people was disgusting.
if you watch the christian bale movie the flowers of war. it gives a small insight

What i find interesting is the future. with korea determined to cause ww3 and china allies to them and japan against both. if it came down to it i wonder where they would really stand. hopefully on the right side with us.

wars are so pointless, all that suffering for what.

[arista]

Originally Posted by smeagol

china still hasn't forgiven them for what they did. what did they did to the people was disgusting.
if you watch the christian bale movie the flowers of war. it gives a small insight

What i find interesting is the future. with korea determined to cause ww3 and china allies to them and japan against both. if it came down to it i wonder where they would really stand. hopefully on the right side with us.

wars are so pointless, all that suffering for what.

But in the First World War
the Fecking Germans started taking over Europe and Russia
so war had to start.


Blame the Fecking Germans

[Livia]

Originally Posted by arista

But in the First World War
the Fecking Germans started taking over Europe and Russia
so war had to start.


Blame the Fecking Germans

And now they've accomplished it, haven't they. They had their country and their economy built back up for them by the allies after WW2, despite the UK being on its knees, penniless and heavily in debt (we only paid our war debt off to the USA in December 2006), and now the Germans run Europe. Just like they wanted. But I digress... Back to the other dangerous, warring nation with some kind of strange cruelty built into their DNA... Japan.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

And now they've accomplished it, haven't they. They had their country and their economy built back up for them by the allies after WW2, despite the UK being on its knees, penniless and heavily in debt (we only paid our war debt off to the USA in December 2006), and now the Germans run Europe. Just like they wanted. But I digress... Back to the other dangerous, warring nation with some kind of strange cruelty built into their DNA... Japan.

Yes but not in a Stable Way
The €uro can still impload
due to France , Greece and Spain

[Livia]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes but not in a Stable Way
The €uro can stil impload
due to France , Greece and Spain

Fingers crossed.

[Z]

Let's hope not, if the Euro crashes, there are going to be an awful lot of people east of Germany wanting answers and they're going to turn to Mother Russia if they don't get them.

Time to leave these petty squabbles in the past.

Spoiler:

I would forgive the s**t out of her.

[Kizzy]

No nation has cruelty built into their DNA, it's corrupt governments that cause war and commandeer innocent men to commit atrocious acts in the name of patriotism...

[smeagol]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No nation has cruelty built into their DNA, it's corrupt governments that cause war and commandeer innocent men to commit atrocious acts in the name of patriotism...

every country is the same. your right its those who lead and the sheep that follow is why there is war and suffering. but every country is guilty of unspeakable acts. england were ruthless once upon a time.and still are no saints.

its good to see all the countries get a long and have moved on like it is now.
so much progress.

[Livia]

I wasn't being literal, I didn't think I needed to explain that. I have German blood myself.

[Nedusa]

I agree the Japanese have a particularly strange way of treating their fellow man in a warring scenario . The Second World War showed the cruel and heartless nature of most Japanese soldiers and you would have to assume this trait is hard wired into the Japanese DNA .

They inflicted the most inhuman treatment on prisoners of war you could imagine , treating them worse than animals . They like the Nazis experimented on Allied soldiers and seaman for fun.

Whilst I do not agree with the events of Hiroshima and Nagasaki I do not think it could have happened to a more deserving nation.

[lostalex]

If America just wanted to be evil, we could have built more bombs and bombed russia and china and any other potential threat before they ever got the bomb. There was a period right after ww2 where only WE had the bomb, and if we WANTED to use it to destroy all potential enemies, we could and would have.

America showed incredible restraint and logic in it's use of the ultimate weapon when we were the only nation in the world to have it. We showed incredibly restraint BEFORE other countries had it, and Mutually Assured Destruction became a reality.

If we wanted to conquer the world after ww2, we could have. but we didn't. Instead we empowered the world, and even our enemies. We empowered our enemies (japan/italy/germany) just as much as we empowered our allies (UK/France/all of western europe) after the war. We gave generously and without prejudice.

If America had any hatred in it's heart, we could have put all the Japanese-Americans into gas chambers, instead of the internment camps. We could have dropped the atomic bomb on Tokyo, Berlin, and Milan.

America has proven itself to be trustworthy of having this technology.

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I agree the Japanese have a particularly strange way of treating their fellow man in a warring scenario . The Second World War showed the cruel and heartless nature of most Japanese soldiers and you would have to assume this trait is hard wired into the Japanese DNA .

They inflicted the most inhuman treatment on prisoners of war you could imagine , treating them worse than animals . They like the Nazis experimented on Allied soldiers and seaman for fun.

Whilst I do not agree with the events of Hiroshima and Nagasaki I do not think it could have happened to a more deserving nation.

It's a human condition, not a Japanese condition. We are programmed to follow hierarchy. That Stanford prison experiment highlights this better than anything.

Youtube video

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

It's a human condition, not a Japanese condition. We are programmed to follow hierarchy. That Stanford prison experiment highlights this better than anything.

Youtube video

but Stanford just proved how an institutional environment can encourage people to be evil, not that people are inherently evil....

It shows that the Japanese had institutionalized evil. The Japanese government, institution, promoted evil. Just like Stanford encouraged the Prison Guards to be evil.

It's true than any institution can make people do evil things if that's their intention. It was definitely the Japanese government's intention to treat prisoners in an evil way. Japan has to account for that. They purposefully did evil.

Originally Posted by lostalex

but Stanford just proved how an institutional environment can encourage people to be evil, not that people are inherently evil....

It shows that the Japanese had institutionalized evil. The Japanese government, institution, promoted evil. Just like Stanford encouraged the Prison Guards to be evil.

It's true than any institution can make people do evil things if that's their intention. It was definitely the Japanese government's intention to treat prisoners in an evil way. Japan has to account for that. They purposefully did evil.

Not sure I follow what you're saying. I don't think any nation is or could ever be dismissed as inherently evil. Humans are programmed to follow authority - it's in our evolutionary past, and it is the way that governments and monarchies are automatically set up.

The Japanese government set out to treat other people really inhumanely, but the Japanese guards/army etc, that administered the orders of their superiors, are not evil people, they are just human with human weaknesses.

It's in no way fair to say it is the make up or DNA of a country.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Not sure I follow what you're saying. I don't think any nation is or could ever be dismissed as inherently evil. Humans are programmed to follow authority - it's in our evolutionary past, and it is the way that governments and monarchies are automatically set up.

The Japanese government set out to treat other people really inhumanely, but the Japanese guards/army etc, that administered the orders of their superiors, are not evil people, they are just human with human weaknesses.

It's in no way fair to say it is the make up or DNA of a country.

What is a country then? maybe it is the language that is dividing us. What is a country and what do you understand the "DNA" of a country to mean?

I would say the "DNA" of a country is judged by it's actions and it's intentions. I would say that Japan could accurately be described as evil on both scores.

So what is your disagreement? spell it out for me.

Originally Posted by lostalex

What is a country then? maybe it is the language that is dividing us. What is a country and what do you understand the "DNA" of a country to mean?

I would say the "DNA" of a country is judged by it's actions and it's intentions. I would say that Japan could accurately be described as evil on both scores.

So what is your disagreement? spell it out for me.

If you go back to Nedusa's post which led to my reply, where he said the following:

The Second World War showed the cruel and heartless nature of most Japanese soldiers and you would have to assume this trait is hard wired into the Japanese DNA .

I fundamentally disagree that any kind of cruel or heartless trait exists to begin with, or if it did, could ever be hard-wired into a whole nation. People are just people.

A country to me, is just a collection of people who live in a humanly defined piece of land.

There are times in history, when lots of countries could have been classed as inherently evil. England for most of it to be honest, and now we're the biggest bunch of pussies on the planet.

Americans for wiping out the indigenous people, or forcing the Chinese to build their railways and the associated crimes involved there.

We change and we learn.

[lostalex]

I don't think power was as centralized back then as you think it was. It was a fundamental racist Japanese philosophy against outsiders which led to their brutality. It was a racist ideology which they held in their hearts. It was not just a few brutal Japanese leaders forcing people do do what they did, it was a fundamental belief system.

You are trying to make it sound like superiors were standing over them forcing the Japanese people and soldiers to act brutally. It was the fundamental ideology of the Japanese people that was evil, not just the leadership.

There can be no storm without the rain.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

If you go back to Nedusa's post which led to my reply, where he said the following:



I fundamentally disagree that any kind of cruel or heartless trait exists to begin with, or if it did, could ever be hard-wired into a whole nation. People are just people.

A country to me, is just a collection of people who live in a humanly defined piece of land.

There are times in history, when lots of countries could have been classed as inherently evil. England for most of it to be honest, and now we're the biggest bunch of pussies on the planet.

Americans for wiping out the indigenous people, or forcing the Chinese to build their railways and the associated crimes involved there.

We change and we learn.

You mean European colonists wiped out the indigenous people of the Americas.

It is Americans that atone for and try to rectify the crimes of the Europeans against the natives.