[Ammi]

..'gender neutral parenting'...thoughts..?...


Max Price is a happy, healthy one-year-old boy who spent yesterday morning playing with his vast collection of toy cars, planes, tractors, and dinosaurs.

Dressed in a red checked lumberjack shirt and rust-coloured jeans, he shouted ‘beep beep!’ and giggled with delight while pushing a plastic motorbike around the living room of his family home.

Then, after lunch, a strange transformation occurred.

Max scampered upstairs to his bedroom with his 23-year-old mother, Lisa, and re-emerged several minutes later wearing a dark blue, knee-length dress decorated with pink flamingos.

He swiftly grabbed a blonde-haired doll, sat her in a pink plastic pram, and took her on a short walk, stopping only when it was time to pretend to breastfeed her.

Later in the afternoon, the child collected several more dolls, found a selection of pink toy cups and saucers, and staged an impromptu tea party.

Max, who turns two later this month and lives in Walsall, is being raised according to a radical technique known as ‘gender-neutral parenting’.

It means Lisa and her husband, Martin, 34, encourage him to wear both boys’ and girls’ clothes, and to play with conventionally female – as well as male – toys.

Rather than being worried if he decides not to play football, and asks instead for someone to paint his fingernails with glittery polish, they instead see it as a form of cute self-expression.

‘If Max wants to wear a pink tutu and fairy wings, then he can wear it,’ says Lisa. ‘He’s just expressing himself. I don’t want to put him in a certain box and treat him that way. I want to teach him to be whatever he wants to be. He can pick his own clothes and, as long as they’re warm enough for the winter, I’ll get him whatever he wants.’

Lisa and Martin live with two elder children – Brandon, ten, and Mia, seven – from Martin’s previous relationship, who are raised along more traditional lines. They also share the terraced home with a hamster called Simon, two cats, Tigger and Pixie, and a German Shepherd called Roxy.

Visitors to the bustling home tend to be surprised, but ‘mostly supportive’, of their decision to pursue gender-neutral parenting.

‘You get the odd funny look, and a bit of hostility, but once we explain how we are bringing our son up, and why, people tend to understand,’ says Lisa

‘I hope that Max won’t get teased when he’s older. But part of what we are trying to do with Max is to instil such a sense of confidence, and a sense of who he is, that he won’t care what anyone else thinks.’


Lisa, a full-time housewife, took the decision to allow Max to identify as either a girl or a boy 12 months ago, after seeing high-profile rape cases being discussed on parenting websites. ‘Gender stereotypes can be so damaging


‘They teach little boys to be aggressive and dominant over women,’ she argues. ‘There’s research out there saying that the whole “boys will be boys” thing basically teaches lads that it’s OK to be a certain way, because it’s in their nature to be aggressive. It’s detrimental for them and for females.’

The decision was fully supported by Martin, an unemployed courier. ‘I think my husband is more of a feminist than I am,’ she says. ‘His biggest concern about the whole thing is usually “does Max have the right shoes to go with that dress!”’

Martin, for his part, adds: ‘My parents told me that I played with my sister’s dolls as a child and it doesn’t bother me. I can’t see why it would bother anyone.’

They are adamant that Max has thrived under the gender-neutral regime, pointing out that he is able to string three or four-word sentences together, and is ‘almost’ potty-trained.


The concept of gender-neutral parenting first became popular among feminists in America during the 1970s, when it inspired the actress Marlo Thomas to write a best-selling children’s book called Free To Be… You and Me. Recently, it has experienced a small revival

In 2011, a Canadian couple made headlines after refusing to reveal the gender of their new-born child Storm in what they called ‘a tribute to freedom and choice’.

The following year, a Cambridgeshire couple, Beck Laxton and Kieran Cooper, revealed they were raising their child Sasha as gender neutral to allow his or her ‘real personality’ to shine through.

In normal circumstances, Max would be required to start wearing gender-specific clothes when he starts at school. However Lisa and Martin have a contingency plan that will allow him to continue dressing as he pleases.

‘We’re planning on home educating Max,’ says Lisa, who was herself home-schooled. ‘However, if he does eventually choose to go to school, and wants to wear a girl’s uniform, I certainly won’t stop him.’

She adds: ‘It doesn’t matter if he’s homosexual, bisexual, transsexual or asexual as far as I’m concerned. I didn’t give birth to him to say “I’m only going to love you if you’re this way”. I love him for who he is.’





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ggressive.html

[Ammi]

Youtube video

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

Youtube video

Why are they doing it



It Stinks

I think Arista was raised under gender neutral parenting. That's why he's so effeminate.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by arista

Why are they doing it



It Stinks

..I think somehow they have good intentions but I personally think that their focus is all wrong...

[Jords]

fgs

[lostalex]

there's no such thing as boys clothes and girls clothes, or boys toys and girls toys.

It sounds like a fascinating experiment. It can't be any more damaging than "traditional" parenting, which already leads to the violence, rape, and murder rates we have in society now.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by lostalex

there's no such thing as boys clothes and girls clothes, or boys toys and girls toys.

It sounds like a fascinating experiment. It can't be any more damaging than "traditional" parenting, which already leads to the violence, rape, and murder rates we have in society now.

What about the "traditional parenting" that leads to none of the above, can we have a round of applause for that?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Cherie

[/B]

What about the "traditional parenting" that leads to none of the above, can we have a round of applause for that?

I don't think we should congratulate people just for NOT doing horrible things.

That's like saying we should give a round of applause to a man just for NOT beating his wife. You don't deserve praise for just being a decent human being.

Maybe i deserve a round of applause for brushing my teeth this morning. lol

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by lostalex

there's no such thing as boys clothes and girls clothes, or boys toys and girls toys.

It sounds like a fascinating experiment. It can't be any more damaging than "traditional" parenting, which already leads to the violence, rape, and murder rates we have in society now.

As weird as I find this story I agree with you.

[AnnieK]

I'm not sure about this...surely it will lead to more confusion in the child? I can get allowing him to play with "girls" toys but I'm not sure about dressing him in girls clothes. Children need to determine their own identity and self awareness. The sentiment is good I think, most parents love their children unconditionally regardless of sex, future sexual orientation etc.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I'm not sure about this...surely it will lead to more confusion in the child? I can get allowing him to play with "girls" toys but I'm not sure about dressing him in girls clothes. Children need to determine their own identity and self awareness. The sentiment is good I think, most parents love their children unconditionally regardless of sex, future sexual orientation etc.

in many parts of the world wearing a dress or skirt is not masculine or feminine...scotland, africa, asia, the middle east, the pacific... they all have traditional male clothes that we'd consider a dress or skirt.

[Z]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I'm not sure about this...surely it will lead to more confusion in the child? I can get allowing him to play with "girls" toys but I'm not sure about dressing him in girls clothes. Children need to determine their own identity and self awareness. The sentiment is good I think, most parents love their children unconditionally regardless of sex, future sexual orientation etc.

But do you not think that by letting him dress up and play with all these different things, they're actually allowing him to determine his own identity? If they were just raising him like most other people raise their kids, he would have an identity imposed upon him that he would accept as his own once he reached a certain age, for example: you like football, you spike your hair up, you play with toy cars...

Once you get past the unusual nature of what they're doing, I actually think it's a really wonderful thing. They're teaching him that he can be whoever he wants to be without fear of judgment from them from birth. Isn't that what all children want to hear from their parents? They won't judge him if he turns out to be any different from anyone else because they're encouraging him to be whoever he wants to be. I mean it's not like this is so isolated; Sweden not long ago introduced a gender neutral pronoun that people can use instead of he/she/him/her so that if people want to be ambiguous about gender and not discriminate in any way, they now have the vocabulary for that.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Zee

But do you not think that by letting him dress up and play with all these different things, they're actually allowing him to determine his own identity? If they were just raising him like most other people raise their kids, he would have an identity imposed upon him that he would accept as his own once he reached a certain age, for example: you like football, you spike your hair up, you play with toy cars...
Once you get past the unusual nature of what they're doing, I actually think it's a really wonderful thing. They're teaching him that he can be whoever he wants to be without fear of judgment from them from birth. Isn't that what all children want to hear from their parents? They won't judge him if he turns out to be any different from anyone else because they're encouraging him to be whoever he wants to be. I mean it's not like this is so isolated; Sweden not long ago introduced a gender neutral pronoun that people can use instead of he/she/him/her so that if people want to be ambiguous about gender and not discriminate in any way, they now have the vocabulary for that.

..I don't see that what they're doing does the same thing though...my boys didn't always play with stereotypical 'boy' toys, I don't think that really matters but I think with this, the method they're using..judgement from others will be exactly what he gets...

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Zee

But do you not think that by letting him dress up and play with all these different things, they're actually allowing him to determine his own identity? If they were just raising him like most other people raise their kids, he would have an identity imposed upon him that he would accept as his own once he reached a certain age, for example: you like football, you spike your hair up, you play with toy cars...

Once you get past the unusual nature of what they're doing, I actually think it's a really wonderful thing. They're teaching him that he can be whoever he wants to be without fear of judgment from them from birth. Isn't that what all children want to hear from their parents? They won't judge him if he turns out to be any different from anyone else because they're encouraging him to be whoever he wants to be. I mean it's not like this is so isolated; Sweden not long ago introduced a gender neutral pronoun that people can use instead of he/she/him/her so that if people want to be ambiguous about gender and not discriminate in any way, they now have the vocabulary for that.

Yeah I agree conceptually its a great idea. I did post later that I think they are enforcing the stereotypes further though by having morning as a boy and allowing him to play with boys toys and afternoons as a girl playing with dolls. Why not allowing him to play with what he wants to play with?

I think the majority of parents teach their children then can be what they want to be. I have gender neutral toys, when my son visits his grandparents or nursery there are both gender toys and he is not forced to play with gender specific and does in fact play with both but I don't feel I am judging him by dressing him as a boy when that is, in fact what he is.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Zee

But do you not think that by letting him dress up and play with all these different things, they're actually allowing him to determine his own identity? If they were just raising him like most other people raise their kids, he would have an identity imposed upon him that he would accept as his own once he reached a certain age, for example: you like football, you spike your hair up, you play with toy cars...

Once you get past the unusual nature of what they're doing, I actually think it's a really wonderful thing. They're teaching him that he can be whoever he wants to be without fear of judgment from them from birth. Isn't that what all children want to hear from their parents? They won't judge him if he turns out to be any different from anyone else because they're encouraging him to be whoever he wants to be. I mean it's not like this is so isolated; Sweden not long ago introduced a gender neutral pronoun that people can use instead of he/she/him/her so that if people want to be ambiguous about gender and not discriminate in any way, they now have the vocabulary for that.

I get your point Zee but I honestly think these parents are pushing their own opinions onto this child, if he wants to play with dolls and prams fair enough and if he wants to play with trucks and dinosaurs that's also fair enough, but why does he have to wait until he's in a dress to play with dolls and then dressed as a boy to play with trucks? that's not gender neutralising at all, let him play with what he wants when he wants without dressing him up in a certain way, what she is doing is still stereotyping.

His mother also says this

‘They teach little boys to be aggressive and dominant over women,’ she argues. ‘There’s research out there saying that the whole “boys will be boys” thing basically teaches lads that it’s OK to be a certain way, because it’s in their nature to be aggressive. It’s detrimental for them and for females.’

That is extremely insulting to anyone that has brought up their children in a more traditional way, it's also stereotyping again, something that she claims damages kids.

The parents are making it into a big issue when they should be concentrating on teaching him manners and respect for other people then when he's older he can make decisions for himself.

[Nedusa]

This kid isn't going to be mixed up or confused as to his/her sexuality at all. Hopefully the presence of genitals may help this child decide what gender he/she is..

I wish parents like this would stop experimenting with their children for their own personal ends. This child could be permanently emotionally damaged due this ridiculous PC nonsense

Whatever next...???

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

This kid isn't going to be mixed up or confused as to his/her sexuality at all. Hopefully the presence of genitals may help this child decide what gender he/she is..

I wish parents like this would stop experimenting with their children for their own personal ends. This child could be permanently emotionally damaged due this ridiculous PC nonsense

Whatever next...???

what evidence do you have for your conclusions? or are you just reacting based on stereotypes?

There are plenty of emotionally damaged people who grew up being forced to play with certain toys and forced to wear certain clothes, so how is it any different?

I think the parents saying to the child that what toys you play with and what clothes you wear are NOT important is a much better message to teach a child than the parents who force a child to only play with certain toys or wear certain clothes based on a bigoted society's norms.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what evidence do you have for your conclusions? or are you just reacting based on stereotypes?

There are plenty of emotionally damaged people who grew up being forced to play with certain toys and forced to wear certain clothes, so how is it any different?

I think the parents saying to the child that what toys you play with and what clothes you wear are NOT important is a much better message to teach a child than the parents who force a child to only play with certain toys or wear certain clothes based on a bigoted society's norms.

what evidence do you have to support your belief that "traditional parenting" turns people into murderers and rapists, if you look into the backgrounds of some serial killers it is sometimes the case that their upbringing has been far from traditional! so bang goes that theory. There are good and bad people in the world, some bad parents will end up turning out fantastic adults and some good parents will have offspring who turn out to be evil bastards.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Cherie

what evidence do you have to support your belief that "traditional parenting" turns people into murderers and rapists, if you look into the backgrounds of some serial killers it is sometimes the case that their upbringing has been far from traditional! so bang goes that theory. There are good and bad people in the world, some bad parents will end up turning out fantastic adults and some good parents will have offspring who turn out to be evil bastards.

i never claimed to have evidence, that's why all i said was, it can't be any worse than what parents do now...

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what evidence do you have for your conclusions? or are you just reacting based on stereotypes?

There are plenty of emotionally damaged people who grew up being forced to play with certain toys and forced to wear certain clothes, so how is it any different?

I think the parents saying to the child that what toys you play with and what clothes you wear are NOT important is a much better message to teach a child than the parents who force a child to only play with certain toys or wear certain clothes based on a bigoted society's norms.

Oh please...... Gender identity is important to a child , it was a thousand years ago and still will be in a thousand years time.

If he is a boy then please do not try and treat him like a girl and vice versa...

We have no right to mess with children's heads like this.. It is thoughtless and irresponsible....

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Oh please...... Gender identity is important to a child , it was a thousand years ago and still will be in a thousand years time.

If he is a boy then please do not try and treat him like a girl and vice versa...

We have no right to mess with children's heads like this.. It is thoughtless and irresponsible....

but boys and girls, especially at the ages BEFORE puberty, have no differences. it is all influence. And don't you think it can be damaging to teach boys that they SHOULD be aggressive and violent. Telling boys that being aggressive is part of being a boy, and if you are not aggressive you aren't a "real man".... You don't see how that can be damaging? really?

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by lostalex

but boys and girls, especially at the ages BEFORE puberty, have no differences. it is all influence. And don't you think it can be damaging to teach boys that they SHOULD be aggressive and violent. Telling boys that being aggressive is part of being a boy, and if you are not aggressive you aren't a "real man".... You don't see how that can be damaging? really?

Who is teaching their male children to be aggressive and violent? Were you raised in a gladiator arena or something?

[lostalex]

I think all the people criticizing these parents should watch the movie Billy Elliot.

[Benjamin]

I don't see the big issue here. Everybody has different ways of parenting, and that is their choice; whether people believe it to be incorrect or not their opinion really doesn't mean too much, especially considering how often the "best" ways to raise your children change all the time (half the time contradicting the "best" ways in time gone by).