[Kizzy]

'Man jailed for killing pedestrian with punch
Lewis Gill, 20, sentenced to four-and-a-half years for manslaughter after striking man in street'


'A man has been jailed for four-and-a-half years after killing a pedestrian with a punch to the head following a row with a cyclist about riding on the pavement.

Footage was released of the moment when Lewis Gill, 20, struck Andrew Young, who had become embroiled moments earlier in an argument with one of Gill's friends, Victor Ibitoye.

After Young argued with Ibitoye, telling him that cycling on the pavement was dangerous, Gill approached the pedestrian in broad daylight in a busy shopping area of Bournemouth and punched him in the face.

The CCTV footage showed Young, who was 40 years old, falling backwards following the sudden blow and striking his head on the road surface.

A number of passersby rushed to the aid of Young, who was rushed to hospital. He died the following day from his head injuries'

I cannot fathom how he only got 4yrs..... Unless it's because the victim had aspergers syndrome and was considered a second class citizen, what other explanation is there?



http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...led-kill-punch

[Livia]

The other explanation is this: He wasn't charged with murder he was charged with manslaughter. It wasn't premeditated, it was obviously a spur of the moment assault. Sentencing guidelines would be in force for the crime of manslaughter. The victim having Asberger's syndrome wouldn't have had any bearing on the sentencing, only precedent would. For instance:

Source: CPS
Single punch manslaughter cases:
R v Furby [2006] 2 Cr.App.R.(S.) 8 - guideline case
Appellant and deceased were good friends. For a reason that the court regarded as an explicable reaction, the appellant struck a single punch of moderate force to the right cheek, the deceased collapsed to the ground and died due to a subarachnoid haemorrhage. Appellant of good character. Sentence reduced to 12 months imprisonment. Case law cited confirms that if there are aggravating circumstances the sentence could be as high as four years.

[Lee.]

I don't understand why people feel the need to make their point with their fists, and risk a charge of manslaughter or attempted murder..

The same happened in a town near me; a silly wee pub argument after closing time became heated, one of them threw a punch causing the other to fall back and hit his head in the kerb and died later in hospital.. Imagine having to live with that?

[lostalex]

wow, 4 years (probably only 2) for killing a man. and the fact that it was "spur of the moment" doesn't make it any better, actually that makes it WORSE, cause if a person could do this Spur of the moment, basically he's a ticking time bomb ALWAYS.

he's a vicious animal and vicious animals belong in cages, forever.

what a pathetic excuse for "justice".

[arista]

yes should have got more than 4 years

[lostalex]

I wonder how much time the victim's dad would get if he has a "spur of the moment" incident with this guy when he gets out of jail?

[Livia]

The fact that he was a "vulnerable man" probably wasn't even registered by the man who threw the punch so I'm not sure that would have been relevant to the case at all. The court has to stick to the guidelines when it comes to sentencing. It's not a failsafe system but it's the best one we've got.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by arista

rebecca addlington got a nose job?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I will give you the reason why he hit him. Its quite simple. The victim was smaller and looked like he would not fight back. Its why most people whack people. if that chap had been 6 foot 2 and built the assault would not have occurred.

[user104658]

Unless it's accidental / through negligence (e.g. idiots causing death by dangerous driving because they were reading text messages...) then I think the manslaughter sentencing should be MUCH tougher. He didn't mean to kill him - but he did fully intend to punch him - and a possible consequence of deliberately punching someone in the head is that they will die. I personally don't actually consider this to be manslaughter. If he had stabbed him, he would probably have been up for murder.

You can stab someone and kill them. They usually don't. The same goes for throwing a punch at someone's head. The charge should be identical.

"Voluntary manslaughter" is a crock of **** as a charge. Manslaughter should mean involuntary manslaughter, and what is currently deemed voluntary manslaughter, should be considered murder.

[Josy]

4 years for taking another's life isn't enough.

I cannot fathom how he only got 4yrs..... Unless it's because the victim had aspergers syndrome and was considered a second class citizen, what other explanation is there?

That's a pretty absurd conclusion to come to imo.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

The other explanation is this: He wasn't charged with murder he was charged with manslaughter. It wasn't premeditated, it was obviously a spur of the moment assault. Sentencing guidelines would be in force for the crime of manslaughter. The victim having Asberger's syndrome wouldn't have had any bearing on the sentencing, only precedent would. For instance:

Source: CPS
Single punch manslaughter cases:
R v Furby [2006] 2 Cr.App.R.(S.) 8 - guideline case
Appellant and deceased were good friends. For a reason that the court regarded as an explicable reaction, the appellant struck a single punch of moderate force to the right cheek, the deceased collapsed to the ground and died due to a subarachnoid haemorrhage. Appellant of good character. Sentence reduced to 12 months imprisonment. Case law cited confirms that if there are aggravating circumstances the sentence could be as high as four years.

Good friends?.... my good friends don't punch me in the face.
It wasn't moderate force it was excessive in my opinion, he took a step back and threw his body weight behind the punch.
Was the force used proportional?....No.
Neither was it spur of the moment it clearly shows the cyclist speak with the victim for a short period before the attack.
What is an explicable reaction.... is everyone allowed to go about punching people now?
People of good character don't punch vulnerable people in the face.

There is a media campaign warning against the dangers of reacting like this, he murdered him... simple as, I hope there's an appeal.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

The fact that he was a "vulnerable man" probably wasn't even registered by the man who threw the punch so I'm not sure that would have been relevant to the case at all. The court has to stick to the guidelines when it comes to sentencing. It's not a failsafe system but it's the best one we've got.

I thought they were friends? he admitted guilt to manslaughter thats why.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Good friends?.... my good friends don't punch me in the face.
It wasn't moderate force it was excessive in my opinion, he took a step back and threw his body weight behind the punch.
Was the force used proportional?....No.
Neither was it spur of the moment it clearly shows the cyclist speak with the victim for a short period before the attack.
What is an explicable reaction.... is everyone allowed to go about punching people now?
People of good character don't punch vulnerable people in the face.

There is a media campaign warning against the dangers of reacting like this, he murdered him... simple as, I hope there's an appeal.

I was using that as a "for instance" for a "one punch sentence" as I think you know. You don't know whether the force used was proportional, nor whether it was a spur of the moment action, nor what the man who was punched said... in fact, you know as little about the case as I do. All you do know is what you've read today. The legal teams on both sides would have had access to all kinds of information that you're just guessing at.

I agree decent people don't go around punching people, but I am telling you what the law says. There's no point in arguing with me over that. Like I said before, the legal system isn't perfect but it's the best we've got.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I thought they were friends? he admitted guilt to manslaughter thats why.

You thought who was friends?

The example I used from the CPS was an example to show you a precent for sentencing of a one punch case. It didn't refer to the case you quoted at all.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I was using that as a "for instance" for a "one punch sentence" as I think you know. You don't know whether the force used was proportional, nor whether it was a spur of the moment action, nor what the man who was punched said... in fact, you know as little about the case as I do. All you do know is what you've read today. The legal teams on both sides would have had access to all kinds of information that you're just guessing at.

I agree decent people don't go around punching people, but I am telling you what the law says. There's no point in arguing with me over that. Like I said before, the legal system isn't perfect but it's the best we've got.

We do know it was not proportional because we can see it clear as day on the CCTV.
Of course I don't livia what a silly thing to say I'm just commenting on this as unusually we can actually see the attack as it happened, I'm just passing comment on the event as I see it ok?
In my opinion as a member of the public I don't agree with the explanation as given for this case is all.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Murderers can be released into society with less than 4 years prison sentence

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

We do know it was not proportional because we can see it clear as day on the CCTV.
Of course I don't livia what a silly thing to say I'm just commenting on this as unusually we can actually see the attack as it happened, I'm just passing comment on the event as I see it ok?
In my opinion as a member of the public I don't agree with the explanation as given for this case is all.

A bit of CCTV out of context does not make you a good witness.

Actually, nothing I've said is "silly", so that was unnecessary and quite provocative. Some things never change. What's actually silly is asking whether the man only got four years because the victim was an Asberger's sufferer and therefore a second class citizen, and asking, what other explanation is there?

Anyway... you've had my informed legal opinion, I'm not going round in circles with this, and that will happen unless I withdraw. So I am withdrawing and leaving the stage clear for your inevitable "last word".

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI

Murderers can be released into society with less than 4 years prison sentence

He was convicted of manslaughter, not murder. There is a big difference.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

A bit of CCTV out of context does not make you a good witness.

Actually, nothing I've said is "silly", so that was unnecessary and quite provocative. Some things never change. What's actually silly is asking whether the man only got four years because the victim was an Asberger's sufferer and therefore a second class citizen, and asking, what other explanation is there?

Anyway... you've had my informed legal opinion, I'm not going round in circles with this, and that will happen unless I withdraw. So I am withdrawing and leaving the stage clear for your inevitable "last word".

I don't care for your legal opinion... it's the legal opinion I'm opposed to so why you think I would accept yours is silly.
Why you suggest it's out of context I don't know, as you said you know as much as me
I'm basing my view on the CCTV evidence which shows the man hit hard in the face.
I still feel that due to the fact the victim was a vulnerable adult and the appelant was sober and initially only a witness and not directly involved the charge was wrong.

[Tom4784]

I understand the reaction but I can't see how he can be tried for murder, the death wasn't premeditated or intended so it doesn't qualify as a murder.

I think the idea that the judge was lenient because the victim had Asperger's is completely ridiculous, he was simply following guidelines and such, nothing more, nothing less.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I understand the reaction but I can't see how he can be tried for murder, the death wasn't premeditated or intended so it doesn't qualify as a murder.

I think the idea that the judge was lenient because the victim had Asperger's is completely ridiculous, he was simply following guidelines and such, nothing more, nothing less.

Nicely and concisely put. Post of the thread.

[Drew.]

An England fan punched and killed a Welsh fan outside Wembley stadium a few years ago with 1 single punch and only got 3 years for it. It doesn't feel long ago that it was on the news and he'll be released this year. Seems ridiculously short for taking someone's life.

[Kizzy]

I thought the sentence may be different as he was a vulnerable adult is that so ridiculous?

[Nedusa]

I think throwing the punch was assault and he would ordinarily been convicted of this with probably a fine or suspended sentence....however the man in question unfortunately died as a direct result of this punch so the charge is now involuntary manslaughter as he did not reasonably expect the man to die after one punch.

So as the man has died a life has been taken and the law can only offer a custodial sentence of up to 6 years or less for this charge.

these types of stories where one person is punched or struck and falls and hits head and dies or has a pre-existing medical condition and as a consequence of the attack dies...these stories are not too uncommon and always result in this type of headline.

The law is there to protect some people who through ill judgement or alcohol punch someone and end up in this terrible situation even though they may be of normal good character but saw "red"

I dont know if there is anything else that can be done, the attacker in this case will eventually be released and will probably attack someone else but this time they may be the one who ends up on the ground.

I don't see how we can stop stories of this type.