[IcantthinkofagoodUserName]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...allowance.html

Clean war memorials or lose your benefits: Long-term jobless ordered to do community work or be stripped of their jobseeker's allowance
Unemployed could be made to clean war memorials in return for benefits
They may also be offered work as gardeners or restoring historical sites
Plans announced by David Cameron as part of the Help to Work scheme
Claimants may be told to report for community and charity placements
People who refused to co-operate would lose all or part of their benefits

The unemployed could be made to clean war memorials in return for their benefits, David Cameron announced last night.
As part of a new drive to get those who have been jobless for more than six months back to work, claimants may be told to report for community and charity work.
They could be offered work as gardeners or told to help restore historical sites, giving them the skills to hold down a full-time job.
If they refuse to co-operate, they would lose all or part of their jobseeker’s allowance.
The plans are part of the Help to Work scheme, which comes into force today. It is targeted at those who have been out of work for months and are having no luck getting a job – or deemed not to be trying hard enough.
Job centre staff will be able to put people on the scheme and could force them to turn up every day to discuss what they have done to look for work.
Until now, these meetings have happened no more frequently than every two weeks.
Mr Cameron said: ‘A key part of our long-term economic plan is to move to full employment, making sure that everyone who can work is in work. We are seeing record levels of employment in Britain, as more and more people find a job, but we need to look at those who are persistently stuck on benefits.
'This scheme will provide more help than ever before, getting people into work and on the road to a more secure future.’

There are currently more than 600,000 job vacancies in the UK at any one time. The new measures are designed to ensure that as the economy improves, everyone with the ability to work has the support and the opportunity to do so.
Under the scheme, job centre advisors will tailor back-to-work plans for each claimant. Those put on Help to Work will have to turn up at the job centre every day for a meeting with their adviser to discuss their progress.
As part of the scheme, dole claimants who lack work experience could be
put on ‘community work placements’.

These would include a range of roles in the voluntary and community sector that will give them experience in the workplace – such as gardening projects, running community cafes or restoring war memorials.
The placements will be for up to six months for 30 hours a week. They will be backed by at least four hours of supported job searching each week to help turn them into full-time employment.
Other claimants could be given help with travel costs for turning up to interviews, or help to buy suitable interview clothes.

Iain Duncan Smith, the Work and Pensions Secretary, said: ‘Everyone with the ability to work should be given the support and opportunity to do so.
‘The previous system wrote too many people off, which was a huge waste of potential.
‘We are now seeing record numbers of people in jobs and the largest fall in long-term unemployment since 1998.
‘But there’s always more to do, which is why we are introducing this new scheme to provide additional support to the very small minority of claimants who have been unemployed for a number of years. In this way we will ensure that they too can benefit from the improving jobs market.’
Help to Work will be mandatory. Those who fail to participate could lose their jobseeker’s allowance for four weeks for a first failure and 13 weeks for a second.

Sounds like the new deal to me.I think all that are able to work should but this seem like a bad idea.Is it going to make people get jobs or is it taking paid work of the market as some of there work placement ie gardening are how some people make a living.

Anyway way over to you tibb members.

[Ninastar]

I think it's a good idea...

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

I think it's a good idea...

[Jack_]

Slave labour and treating the unemployed as akin to being a criminal by being given what is essentially community service is a fantastic idea.

We're all in this together lads

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Slave labour and treating the unemployed as akin to being a criminal by being given what is essentially community service is a fantastic idea.

We're all in this together lads

So true

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Slave labour and treating the unemployed as akin to being a criminal by being given what is essentially community service is a fantastic idea.

We're all in this together lads

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

I think it's a good idea...

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

In theory it's a good idea, but instead of these people being put out to volunteer vacancies that most need them they are sent to work for big companies like Tesco for example, saving them from actually paying someone for doing those jobs.

If places like that have jobs then they should be filling them with the many unemployed people out there as full time positions not just getting in as much workers as they can for free, as Jack said it's slave labour.

[IcantthinkofagoodUserName]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

I think it's a good idea...

That very interesting.Would you not changed anything?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Slave labour and treating the unemployed as akin to being a criminal by being given what is essentially community service is a fantastic idea.

We're all in this together lads

Just about sums up my thoughts on this

6 months and you are made to do community service? DO they realise how bloody hard it is to get a job when 100+ people are applying for the same few? Longer term unemployed possibly, but 6 months is taking the piss. Still it will please the tory voters who have the unemployed down as lazy scum so nevermind

Also LOL at there being 600k jobs at any given time..what a load of BS. Most of them are duplicate jobs, 0 hour contracts, commision only work, or like...4 hours per week. Those arent 'jobs'.

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Josy

In theory it's a good idea, but instead of these people being put out to volunteer vacancies that most need them they are sent to work for big companies like Tesco for example, saving them from actually paying someone for doing those jobs.

If places like that have jobs then they should be filling them with the many unemployed people out there as full time positions not just getting in as much workers as they can for free, as Jack said it's slave labour.

That's the thing, it is a good idea. I'm sure even the people who have gotten used to getting benefits and no longer have the motivation or courage to go out and get a job, will feel a lot better after doing a bit of volunteer work. Things like cleaning a beach is not work for criminals, or cleaning a war memorial is not a punishment or the work of slaves.

I think taking money from the government and having to do nothing for that, I think that does more damage to a person than having them do a bit of work.

Now I don't think people should lose their jobs and a corporation should be allowed to hire people on benefits to do the previous job at no cost to the company. That is wrong.

There are countries without a benefit system, I think if the ones here on benefits lived in one of those countries, they would be working, they wouldn't just stave to death. So there is something wrong with our system.

The benefits should be like a security net, they shouldn't be some type of lifestyle choice.

[Kate!]

Lol at this.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

The benefits should be like a security net, they shouldn't be some type of lifestyle choice.

They are for the majority. A couple of people abuse the system yeah, but there is abuse in ALL systems. I really don't get the need to punish the majority for the actions of the minority tbh. Which is what making the 'long term' (6 months...really?) unemployed do community service is really...

[Josy]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

That's the thing, it is a good idea. I'm sure even the people who have gotten used to getting benefits and no longer have the motivation or courage to go out and get a job, will feel a lot better after doing a bit of volunteer work. Things like cleaning a beach is not work for criminals, or cleaning a war memorial is not a punishment or the work of slaves.

I think taking money from the government and having to do nothing for that, I think that does more damage to a person than having them do a bit of work.

Now I don't think people should lose their jobs and a corporation should be allowed to hire people on benefits to do the previous job at no cost to the company. That is wrong.

There are countries without a benefit system, I think if the ones here on benefits lived in one of those countries, they would be working, they wouldn't just stave to death. So there is something wrong with our system.

The benefits should be like a security net, they shouldn't be some type of lifestyle choice.

There is no jobs for people though so it's through no fault of their own that they cant get one, okay there is some that takes advantage of the system but that's always happened, to treat jobseekers as criminals for not being able to find employment within 6 months is just ridiculous, Community Service has always dealt with cleaning graffiti, painting council properties etc now they want to send jobseekers out to do it, what are the real criminals going to be doing?

And saying that jobseekers are 'taking money from the government for doing nothing' is pretty offensive to those on benefits imo, it's called benefit for a reason and is there to help people between jobs, a large majority of these people have worked and paid stamps all of their lives and now because there's no work they are treated as criminals and or scroungers? absolutely ridiculous.

And how are these people supposed to search for a real job if they are out doing this community service?

[BigSister]

Like Vicky said there are some people who abuse the system. But there is some people the minority who dont. ATM I am currently doing jobseekers but its the only way I can get some money due to either not getting a job because once every four weeks i have to have eye injections and app I dont qualify for being on the sick either. I am not on jobseekers because I am lazy I am looking for work every chance I get. I suppose volunteer work I would do but because I have dyspraxia I cant clean war memorials. So basically my rant is like Vicky said some people are being tarred with the same brush just because some people do scrounge.

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

They are for the majority. A couple of people abuse the system yeah, but there is abuse in ALL systems. I really don't get the need to punish the majority for the actions of the minority tbh. Which is what making the 'long term' (6 months...really?) unemployed do community service is really...

But I don't think it's a punishment. It's an idea to get people back into work.

Originally Posted by Josy

There is no jobs for people though so it's through no fault of their own that they cant get one, okay there is some that takes advantage of the system but that's always happened, to treat jobseekers as criminals for not being able to find employment within 6 months is just ridiculous, Community Service has always dealt with cleaning graffiti, painting council properties etc now they want to send jobseekers out to do it, what are the real criminals going to be doing?

And saying that jobseekers are 'taking money from the government for doing nothing' is pretty offensive to those on benefits imo, it's called benefit for a reason and is there to help people between jobs, a large majority of these people have worked and paid stamps all of their lives and now because there's no work they are treated as criminals and or scroungers? absolutely ridiculous.

And how are these people supposed to search for a real job if they are out doing this community service?

I don't think this is for the people who are between jobs. This is for people who have been long term unemployed.

And I don't see things like tiding up your community as the work of criminals. But if y'all see that as the work of criminals then there's nothing to debate on that point.

Having people do lets say a weeks work, even 20 hours a week picking up the litter on a beach. If we look at the good this could do, it would catch out the people who are actually working and collecting benefits, as they couldn't keep their cash-in-hand job while doing this. People appalled by the idea might go take a different job rather than do work for their benefits.

Those actually looking for a job could be helped and exempt from doing this.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

I don't think this is for the people who are between jobs. This is for people who have been long term unemployed.

6 months in the current job climate is not long term unemployed.

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

And I don't see things like tiding up your community as the work of criminals. But if y'all see that as the work of criminals then there's nothing to debate on that point.

But it is? Thats what community service currently is...

Along with some paid positions doing the same thing of course, which would go under this scheme.

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Having people do lets say a weeks work, even 20 hours a week picking up the litter on a beach. If we look at the good this could do, it would catch out the people who are actually working and collecting benefits, as they couldn't keep their cash-in-hand job while doing this. People appalled by the idea might go take a different job rather than do work for their benefits.

It wouldn't though, the 'professional' claimants for want of better words, will find a way around it. Also the amount of people doing this is ridiculously tiny, so again its punishing the majority for the actions of the minority.

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Those actually looking for a job could be helped and exempt from doing this.

But they wont be....

[Josy]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

But I don't think it's a punishment. It's an idea to get people back into work.



I don't think this is for the people who are between jobs. This is for people who have been long term unemployed.

And I don't see things like tiding up your community as the work of criminals. But if y'all see that as the work of criminals then there's nothing to debate on that point.

Having people do lets say a weeks work, even 20 hours a week picking up the litter on a beach. If we look at the good this could do, it would catch out the people who are actually working and collecting benefits, as they couldn't keep their cash-in-hand job while doing this. People appalled by the idea might go take a different job rather than do work for their benefits.

Those actually looking for a job could be helped and exempt from doing this.

Yes they say it's for the long term unemployed but then say in the article anyone claiming jobseekers allowance over 6 months, 6 months is not long term tbh especially with the way things are atm..

If someone goes out and cleans a beach or whatever for 20 hours per week, that means they are doing at least £120 of work per week and they will only receive less than half of that per week (the benefit amount)

I think? (if I have worked it out right in my head) that means they are working for less than half the minimum wage per hour, we have a minimum wage for a reason, making people work for half of it is out of order.

Also when this goes ahead the government will be laughing up their sleeves because they can then twist the statistics and make it look like these people aren't unemployed during this time so unemployment has reduced during that period etc when it's all lies.

[Vicky.]

As for an idea to get people back into work..let me give you my recent experience with this kind of thing.

Work dried up so me and Gav were having to claim JSA on weeks when we had no work..whilst Gavin looked for a steadier position. We were on JSA for around 2 months or so. During this time it was deemed that Gavin was long term unemployed (LOL..2 months unemployed since leaving school...) and would be 'helped' by attending the work program. The plan was for him to spend 35 hours a week in their stuffy little centre, sharing an old computer with someone else, taking turns to look or vacancies..much help yes? He found a job before his first work program appointment.

But to this day the work program are STILL hounding him for his employment details..so that they can claim their 5k or so bonus for getting him back into work, despite him never attending their centre, and finding the job off his own back. I told him under no circumstances give them his details..and he hasn't. Now they keep trying to arrange appointments with him to pressure him into signing a declaration to say THEY found him the job.

Now, people claim the work program helps people into employment...from this^ what help do they give? Besides collecting a bonus for doing nothing. Infact the governments own figures say that being on the work program actually hinders jobsearching...so whats the need in it if not to punish people for not having a job?

I know the work program is different to this new thing they have come up with, but I saw the 'helping people into work' excuse for that too, when I know for a fact its not about that,

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

That's the thing, it is a good idea. I'm sure even the people who have gotten used to getting benefits and no longer have the motivation or courage to go out and get a job, will feel a lot better after doing a bit of volunteer work. Things like cleaning a beach is not work for criminals, or cleaning a war memorial is not a punishment or the work of slaves.

I think taking money from the government and having to do nothing for that, I think that does more damage to a person than having them do a bit of work.

Now I don't think people should lose their jobs and a corporation should be allowed to hire people on benefits to do the previous job at no cost to the company. That is wrong.

There are countries without a benefit system, I think if the ones here on benefits lived in one of those countries, they would be working, they wouldn't just stave to death. So there is something wrong with our system.

The benefits should be like a security net, they shouldn't be some type of lifestyle choice.

No it's a job... all this cleaning and council improvements, they were jobs.. people did them for a living now what are those people doing for a job?

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

6 months in the current job climate is not long term unemployed.



But it is? Thats what community service currently is...

But things like working in a charity shop is also dealt out as a punishment for criminals, however when you hear of someone who volunteers in a charity shop, I don't think people here think of it as criminals work. So it just seems very selective that this work of cleaning up the places we live that might be given to unemployed people, it's all of a sudden the work of criminals, not good enough for decent folk.

And I think maybe 6 months unemployed and if the person really want a job, maybe they just need some help.

Along with some paid positions doing the same thing of course, which would go under this scheme.
It wouldn't though, the 'professional' claimants for want of better words, will find a way around it. Also the amount of people doing this is ridiculously tiny, so again its punishing the majority for the actions of the minority.
But they wont be....

I see it as an opportunity to change things, and yep that's scary. But it's a chance to improve the lives of people, if it fails. Then have things go back to the way they are now.

[Vicky.]

OK so theres no problem with paid jobs disappearing (which will happen, as long as there is a constant stream of free labour), as long as those people who dare to not be lucky enough to get a job right away when 100+ people are applying for each one are made to do something for their JSA..that most of them have already paid for via NI and tax anyway...I get it

[GypsyGoth]

*runs out of the thread*

[user104658]

I've always said I'm not necessarily against people working to keep JSA except that;

- 6 months is currently not long term unemployed, depending in where you live it can take much longer at the moment. I was unemployed for 5 months after leaving University and that was with applying constantly, every day, and (not to blow my own trumpet, but) near-flawless school grades and a University level education. And no, I wasn't being picky. I was turned down from all of the major supermarkets (Morrisons outright told me at interview that there had been 900 applicants for 5 positions), dodgy warehouse based call centres, and fast food outlets (didn't even get an interview). So for people less able and less qualified... I don't think it's a unreasonable to suggest that one year is more appropriate for being considered "long term" unemployed.

- it should only be work that would otherwise not be being done. Improving towns (god knows they need it), parks, helping others who need but can't afford help, etc... No roles for companies that should be PAYING, for Christ's sake, it's ridiculous. They might as well fire everyone and then get them back in to work for free! Race to the bottom.

- finally, and this one is important to me, it should NOT, ever, be for less than minimum wage!!! Current JSA for an adult is 70 - 75 pounds a week. That's 11 to 12 hours of minimum wage work. People should NOT, EVER be doing more than 12 hours a week for that money. Full 35 hours for £75 works out as £2.15 an hour. It's disgusting.

[Ammi]

..I agree that 6 months is not 'long term' at all ..but I also think that with many jobs and so it should be in my opinion, academic qualifications wouldn't give anyone any advantages over someone without them...and don't necessarily mean a lesser time unemployed...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I agree that 6 months is not 'long term' at all ..but I also think that with many jobs and so it should be in my opinion, academic qualifications wouldn't give anyone any advantages over someone without them...and don't necessarily mean a lesser time unemployed...

Well no, but I'm also 6'2, well built, (was ) young fit and healthy, a fast learner and had a wealth of previous experience in various jobs...

BASICALLY I WAS THE PERFECT CANDIDATE, OK???

... well... anyway, my point was that even then it can be hard-ish, so I can't imagine what it's like for, say, an alcoholic midget with one GCSE.