[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This is ****ing brilliant to be fair...

Youtube video

oh god that is brilliant

[LeatherTrumpet]

we have the bravery

to bring back slavery


genius

[joeysteele]

The sad thing is as to that video clip which is excellent, it is likely that is more likely the things he would have loved to be able to say too.

[arista]

Its a Good Remix (Cassetteboy group are Top of their game)
with added overdubbed fecker word


But not like todays speech

[Nedusa]

Election bribes..... Pure and simple

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Election bribes..... Pure and simple

It would seem that way but no one really gets anything at all now, it is all to happen in 3 to 5 years depending on the economy.

For me,this is him again asking for more blank cheques with no guarantees.
Since he never really delivered that much over the last 4 and half years,I certainly wouldn't trust him as to these measures announced yesterday.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It would seem that way but no one really gets anything at all now, it is all to happen in 3 to 5 years depending on the economy.

For me,this is him again asking for more blank cheques with no guarantees.
Since he never really delivered that much over the last 4 and half years,I certainly wouldn't trust him as to these measures announced yesterday.

In other words, carte blanche to promise whatever they want and then go back on it because of "the state of the economy" - much like they did with every single election pledge last time around...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In other words, carte blanche to promise whatever they want and then go back on it because of "the state of the economy" - much like they did with every single election pledge last time around...

Exactly, this has been his way all the time, promise or say something will be done but it is put off to another day, a day that never comes.

It will be the same with his EU referendum, he will come along in 2 years or so after the elction, eitehr saying the negotiations are at a critical stage or that he at that time, hasn't got the parliamentary arithmetic to get a referendum bill through,especially if a close result seemed possible.

His procrastination has driven me mad these last 4+ years and although most of the Tory press are praising this speech,which is really no surprise 7 months off an election,I expect any further time as PM being no different from him as to sidestepping and dodging so called promised issues.

I still think and really hope he is gone after 2015,he really is a man not to be trusted at all in my opinion.

[arista]

[joeysteele]

Well it was actually back into growth when this lot took office in 2010 anyway.It has taken ages to consolidate that growth they inherited and start to really improve.

One wonders where the growth may have been now had Labour won and set out to only half the deficit over 4 years with up to 20-25% less cuts.
Without the over the top more severe heartless welfare reforms and no NHS re-organisation,the growth may have been far better, as it was for 10 whole years of Labour's 13 years in power.

The severe austerity measures have held back growth really taking off.

[Shaun]

Well put, Joey.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This is ****ing brilliant to be fair...

Youtube video

Genius!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well it was actually back into growth when this lot took office in 2010 anyway.It has taken ages to consolidate that growth they inherited and start to really improve.

One wonders where the growth may have been now had Labour won and set out to only half the deficit over 4 years with up to 20-25% less cuts.
Without the over the top more severe heartless welfare reforms and no NHS re-organisation,the growth may have been far better, as it was for 10 whole years of Labour's 13 years in power.

The severe austerity measures have held back growth really taking off.

Well put joey, it's so annoying hearing them bleat on about the mess 'labour' left... the recession was global

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well put joey, it's so annoying hearing them bleat on about the mess 'labour' left... the recession was global

Not only was it global, but it was the Thatcher era that left the UK wide open to the effects of it by encouraging / forcing London based corporatism to be the foundation of our economy. The foolish lady built our house upon the sand, and all that

and it was her who left so many families dependant on welfare (not to mention various substances) in the first place. There are so many whole families addled by addiction around here, and the vast majority of it can be traced back to that time. Typical pattern being, parents lost their livelihoods and everything else under Thatcher, started (and never stopped) drinking, and their inevitably miserable offspring took it that step further and turned to drugs.

Honestly, I can see there being a similar pattern this time around. This Tory term has sowed the seeds, Labour will in all likelihood now have another term whilst things develop, then the tories will get back in just as the issues seeded this time around are blossoming and claim that it's clearly nothing to do with them because they only just got into power.

[Kizzy]

Don't mention Thatcher I have to watch my blood pressure
It annoyed me the proposals that those on minimum wage may not pay tax, implement a living wage and tax that!
Then everyone contributes, it's just going to lead to more 'us and them' with those on higher incomes resenting the lower paid manual laborers as well as those who don't work for not paying tax... next thing will be if you don't pay tax you don't get to vote!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not only was it global, but it was the Thatcher era that left the UK wide open to the effects of it by encouraging / forcing London based corporatism to be the foundation of our economy. The foolish lady built our house upon the sand, and all that

and it was her who left so many families dependant on welfare (not to mention various substances) in the first place. There are so many whole families addled by addiction around here, and the vast majority of it can be traced back to that time. Typical pattern being, parents lost their livelihoods and everything else under Thatcher, started (and never stopped) drinking, and their inevitably miserable offspring took it that step further and turned to drugs.

Honestly, I can see there being a similar pattern this time around. This Tory term has sowed the seeds, Labour will in all likelihood now have another term whilst things develop, then the tories will get back in just as the issues seeded this time around are blossoming and claim that it's clearly nothing to do with them because they only just got into power.

Really interesting and good points there Toy Soldier.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Don't mention Thatcher I have to watch my blood pressure
It annoyed me the proposals that those on minimum wage may not pay tax, implement a living wage and tax that!
Then everyone contributes, it's just going to lead to more 'us and them' with those on higher incomes resenting the lower paid manual laborers as well as those who don't work for not paying tax... next thing will be if you don't pay tax you don't get to vote!

But Kizzy
in 1979 Labour could not sort out their Unions
no way was Labour ever going to return then


That Old Labour PM Jim C.
laughed at Maggie
saying a woman in charge...
never happen.


He was out of touch
it was the People that voted
Thatcher in.

[joeysteele]

As a footnote to this conference with all its dubious promises of nothing today but maybe a lot more in a few years.
The other thing that gets me is the Conservative party's desperation to get rid of the human rights act for the UK.

They keep telling us, when discussing overseeing policies and what are seen as snooping policies,when they are being considered or brought in, that if we have nothing to hide then we have nothing to fear.

What then is their hidden agenda that they almost obsessively want to quit the human rights act.
What is it they would like to be able to do and not have someone saying you cannot do that it is wrong.
Now okay, a lot of things are wrong and sometimes downright daft as to the Human rights but nonetheless it is a protection too.

This lot say a UK bill of rights is called for and while I could easily support that,I would only support it myself were it a full Parliamentary bill of rights and not a single party's or single Govts. creation.
Any UK bill of rights, for me, must have the support of all the Parties elected to Westminster so that all voters and all citizens have representation to its content and creation.

At the very least,if agreement from all Parties is not possible then I would settle for it being passed in Parliament with at least two thirds of all the MPs elected to Parliament, not just from MP's in the chamber at the time.
So with at least 434 MP's supporting such a UK bill of rights.

A UK bill of rights should be discussed, planned and created by every Party with MPs from the whole United Kingdom.
It should never be,or allowed to be, a solely Conservative creation or indeed solely Labour's or another Party's creation too.

[arista]

[A UK bill of rights should be discussed, planned and created by every Party with MPs from the whole United Kingdom.]


Yes it will go that way

[CaudleHalbard]

The likelihood is there will be another hung parliament. The chances of the Tories getting an overall majority are very slim indeed.

This means it is likely there will be no bill of rights - and no EU referendum either.

[arista]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

The likelihood is there will be another hung parliament. The chances of the Tories getting an overall majority are very slim indeed.

This means it is likely there week be no bill of rights - and no EU referendum either.

As long as Labour are out of power
I am happy

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

The likelihood is there will be another hung parliament. The chances of the Tories getting an overall majority are very slim indeed.

This means it is likely there will be no bill of rights - and no EU referendum either.

I can see a hung parliament happening although I still believe the polls are underestimating Labour's lead.
I think it is at least 5 to 6 points ahead.

I have never believed there will be a referendum, even if the Conservatives got an overall majority.
They would need an overall majority of around 90 to have any real chance of getting a referendum bill through,especially if a referendum on the EU looked like being a close result.

There are still strong EU supporters in the Conservative aprty and they would never risk the UK leaving the EU.
With only a small overall majority,at the time, Cameron would likely say,he hadn't the arithmetic to get a referendum bill through Parliament and it would be like a lot of his policies these last 4+ years be put on hold.

If however it is a hung Parliament,I expect a Labour/Lib Dem coalition will come this time,I think all efforts from all other Parties,except for the DUP in Northern Ireland, will want to see the Conservatives out of power.