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Old 01-02-2015, 04:19 PM #76
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Supermarkets provide both so where's the beef?... ( see what I did there?)
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:14 PM #77
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Originally Posted by farhad View Post
Being stunned causes animals to suffer longer painful death and its not humane at all, if you want to attack the muslims then have the balls to attack the jewish kosher, both exactly the same principle. do your research done by german dietry institutions, in comparison to stunning and halal slaughter, hala slaughter the graph showed 0 pain signals, and in the slaughter we don't cut the whole head of, we cut the vessels of the windwipe,neck etc is cut and the pain signal responsible for pain is terminated. Animal does not die of pain, it dies of painless death.
I was responding to your specific post. No Jewish person has posted on here on this specific subject and made the claims you have regarding how 'painless' and 'humane' Halal killing of animals is. If they had stated similar claims in respect of Kosher slaughter I would have responded to their post in exactly the same manner as I did to your post.

I have qualifications in Anatomy and Physiology and understand the central and peripheral nervous systems, which is why I totally refute your claims. There is also a wealth of scientific evidence which rebutts your claims, including the excellent link pasted by Dave 600 - reproduced below:

http://www.mla.com.au/Research-and-d...eef-Cattle/935

In addition, I reproduce below the results of another scientific research project into Religious Slaughter:

"Animals feel the pain of religious slaughter"

"Brain signals have shown that calves do appear to feel pain when slaughtered according to Jewish and Muslim religious law, strengthening the case for adapting the practices to make them more humane.

"I think our work is the best evidence yet that it's painful," says Craig Johnson, who led the study at Massey University in Palmerston North, New Zealand.

Johnson summarised his results last week in London when receiving an award from the UK Humane Slaughter Association. His team also showed that if the animal is concussed through stunning, signals corresponding to pain disappear.

The findings increase pressure on religious groups that practice slaughter without stunning to reconsider. "It provides further evidence, if it was needed, that slaughtering an animal without stunning it first is painful," says Christopher Wathes of the UK Farm Animal Welfare Council, which has long argued for the practice to end."

Finally, Farhad, I have the courage of my convictions and always have had, so you do not need to counsel me to "have" "balls" or question my bravery in any way.

I respond every single time to those who challenge me or who try to ridicule me - no matter if I stand alone and am outnumbered, because I wholly believe in what I say, and try to ensure - by painstaking research - that what what I say is supported by facts.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:29 PM #78
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No method is foolproof.


'Animals may suffer when stunning procedures fail. This
Regulation should therefore provide for appropriate
back-up stunning equipment to be available to
minimise pain, distress or suffering to the animals.'

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...99_2009_en.pdf
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Old 02-02-2015, 04:01 AM #79
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Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
No method is foolproof.


'Animals may suffer when stunning procedures fail. This
Regulation should therefore provide for appropriate
back-up stunning equipment to be available to
minimise pain, distress or suffering to the animals.'

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...99_2009_en.pdf

I know the real reason why you have posted the above, but what is your point? Are you claiming that because 'stunning' sometimes fails, that it justifies animals being slaughtered without stunning them?

A bit like saying that anesthesia has been known to sometimes fail so because it is not 'foolproof' , then any backstreet operations where rogue surgeons remove limbs from patients without any type of pain killers are justified.

It is better to support a well-intentioned system that seeks to protect animals about to be slaughtered from pain, than to try to use the occasional failure of such a system to defend systems without any protection at all. In my opinion.
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Old 02-02-2015, 10:57 AM #80
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Originally Posted by kirklancaster View Post
I know the real reason why you have posted the above, but what is your point? Are you claiming that because 'stunning' sometimes fails, that it justifies animals being slaughtered without stunning them?

A bit like saying that anesthesia has been known to sometimes fail so because it is not 'foolproof' , then any backstreet operations where rogue surgeons remove limbs from patients without any type of pain killers are justified.

It is better to support a well-intentioned system that seeks to protect animals about to be slaughtered from pain, than to try to use the occasional failure of such a system to defend systems without any protection at all. In my opinion.
I'll tell you the real reason... I posted on page one that I felt it was unethical, I have been looking for some up to date relevant information relating specifically to the UK that specifies governmental guidelines to back up my view.
I found it and posted it, there is no such thing as a backstreet abattoir as that would be illegal there already are protections in place for all methods of slaughter.
But as seen the stunning method has as many if not more issues attached, even considering there are laws to protect animal welfare.
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Old 03-02-2015, 12:31 AM #81
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Originally Posted by kirklancaster View Post
I was responding to your specific post. No Jewish person has posted on here on this specific subject and made the claims you have regarding how 'painless' and 'humane' Halal killing of animals is. If they had stated similar claims in respect of Kosher slaughter I would have responded to their post in exactly the same manner as I did to your post.

I have qualifications in Anatomy and Physiology and understand the central and peripheral nervous systems, which is why I totally refute your claims. There is also a wealth of scientific evidence which rebutts your claims, including the excellent link pasted by Dave 600 - reproduced below:

http://www.mla.com.au/Research-and-d...eef-Cattle/935

In addition, I reproduce below the results of another scientific research project into Religious Slaughter:

"Animals feel the pain of religious slaughter"

"Brain signals have shown that calves do appear to feel pain when slaughtered according to Jewish and Muslim religious law, strengthening the case for adapting the practices to make them more humane.

"I think our work is the best evidence yet that it's painful," says Craig Johnson, who led the study at Massey University in Palmerston North, New Zealand.

Johnson summarised his results last week in London when receiving an award from the UK Humane Slaughter Association. His team also showed that if the animal is concussed through stunning, signals corresponding to pain disappear.

The findings increase pressure on religious groups that practice slaughter without stunning to reconsider. "It provides further evidence, if it was needed, that slaughtering an animal without stunning it first is painful," says Christopher Wathes of the UK Farm Animal Welfare Council, which has long argued for the practice to end."

Finally, Farhad, I have the courage of my convictions and always have had, so you do not need to counsel me to "have" "balls" or question my bravery in any way.

I respond every single time to those who challenge me or who try to ridicule me - no matter if I stand alone and am outnumbered, because I wholly believe in what I say, and try to ensure - by painstaking research - that what what I say is supported by facts.
The link does not exist, and even if they did research which doesn't provide its study method, if ofcourse carried out the wrong way, it will feel pain, hence it should be done by the professional butchers and done in accordance with the appropriate steps and guideline. The study that was carried out was done with the measurement of a machinal graph, and with appropriate action, it gave a sound result. Before posting your reference, need to know the background of these personals. Also they did not provide how they came to that conclusion, how did they detect that animals felts pain, nothing conclusive to show how it detected pain. Also why use anaesthetic?

At long last??!!....Umpteen studies prove that ritual slaughter is the most humane way vs 1.. ONE.. that says otherwise??!! Way to stand up for science Manny Goldstein

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Old 03-02-2015, 01:03 PM #82
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Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
I'll tell you the real reason... I posted on page one that I felt it was unethical, I have been looking for some up to date relevant information relating specifically to the UK that specifies governmental guidelines to back up my view.
I found it and posted it, there is no such thing as a backstreet abattoir as that would be illegal there already are protections in place for all methods of slaughter.
But as seen the stunning method has as many if not more issues attached, even considering there are laws to protect animal welfare.

I was too busy yesterday to respond to your post, and I was preparing to do so this morning, when on the news came a report of undercover filming inside an Halal Slaughterhouse in Thirsk. I'll let a related article about it expound:

"Inside the halal house of horrors:


Sickening footage shows 'evil' abattoir staff 'taunting sheep before hacking them to pieces'

Slaughtermen caught on camera 'hacking and sawing' at animals' throats

Sheep filmed being kicked, with one worker standing on an animal's neck

Staff laughed as a sheep bled to death with spectacles painted on its face

'Horrifying abuse' captured by animal rights campaigners at halal abattoir

One worker has been sacked and another three have been suspended

The Food Standards Agency has launched an urgent investigation

RSCPA and British Veterinary Association condemn 'shocking' footage

100,000-strong BVA petition means slaughter will be debated in Commons

A worker at a halal abattoir has been sacked and three others suspended after being filmed breaking strict rules on slaughtering sheep.

The men could face prosecution for the ‘horrifying yet routine abuse’ captured by animal rights campaigners using hidden cameras.

Slaughtermen at the Bowood Lamb abattoir in Thirsk, North Yorkshire, are seen ‘hacking and sawing’ at animals’ throats in apparent contravention of Islamic practice.

The RSPCA slammed the 'absolutely shocking' footage amid renewed calls to ban halal slaughter, which is opposed by the British Veterinary Association and 100,000 people in an online petition".

When I was at school, as part of our English studies, we had 'Comprehension', where we had to read diverse types of literature - both fact and fiction - and then, in an 'exam' type setting, we had to write essays on what we had read, without the benefit of the source material. This was to prove that not only had we actually read what we were supposed to have read, but also that we fully understood what we had read.

I recommend such a practice to save 'egg on face'.
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Last edited by Niamh.; 04-02-2015 at 11:40 AM. Reason: removed Insults/personal remarks
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Old 03-02-2015, 01:53 PM #83
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Originally Posted by kirklancaster View Post

I was too busy yesterday to respond to your post, and I was preparing to do so this morning, when on the news came a report of undercover filming inside an Halal Slaughterhouse in Thirsk. I'll let a related article about it expound:

"Inside the halal house of horrors:


Sickening footage shows 'evil' abattoir staff 'taunting sheep before hacking them to pieces'

Slaughtermen caught on camera 'hacking and sawing' at animals' throats

Sheep filmed being kicked, with one worker standing on an animal's neck

Staff laughed as a sheep bled to death with spectacles painted on its face

'Horrifying abuse' captured by animal rights campaigners at halal abattoir

One worker has been sacked and another three have been suspended

The Food Standards Agency has launched an urgent investigation

RSCPA and British Veterinary Association condemn 'shocking' footage

100,000-strong BVA petition means slaughter will be debated in Commons

A worker at a halal abattoir has been sacked and three others suspended after being filmed breaking strict rules on slaughtering sheep.

The men could face prosecution for the ‘horrifying yet routine abuse’ captured by animal rights campaigners using hidden cameras.

Slaughtermen at the Bowood Lamb abattoir in Thirsk, North Yorkshire, are seen ‘hacking and sawing’ at animals’ throats in apparent contravention of Islamic practice.

The RSPCA slammed the 'absolutely shocking' footage amid renewed calls to ban halal slaughter, which is opposed by the British Veterinary Association and 100,000 people in an online petition".

When I was at school, as part of our English studies, we had 'Comprehension', where we had to read diverse types of literature - both fact and fiction - and then, in an 'exam' type setting, we had to write essays on what we had read, without the benefit of the source material. This was to prove that not only had we actually read what we were supposed to have read, but also that we fully understood what we had read.

I recommend such a practice to save 'egg on face'.


The information you provided in your post was to some obscure Australian study and another a broken link.
I provided actual governmental UK guidelines... I fail to see how you could take issue with those.

I have seen the news item on the Thirsk abattoir, it is shocking and it shows that there is indeed a need to closely monitor who, how and where animals are slaughtered, however the method is not the issue here but the manner in which it was carried out which is quite rightly considered gross abuse of animals.

When I was at school, as part of our English studies, we had 'Comprehension', where we had to read diverse types of literature - both fact and fiction - and then, in an 'exam' type setting, we had to write essays on what we had read, without the benefit of the source material. This was to prove that not only had we actually read what we were supposed to have read, but also that we fully understood what we had read.

I recommend such a practice to save 'egg on face'.


What exactly are you trying to say here?... I'm a little confused as to the relevance.
I have English Language and Literature at GCSE level, I hope this qualifies me to reply to your posts.
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Old 03-02-2015, 04:05 PM #84
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Originally Posted by farhad View Post
The link does not exist, and even if they did research which doesn't provide its study method, if ofcourse carried out the wrong way, it will feel pain, hence it should be done by the professional butchers and done in accordance with the appropriate steps and guideline. The study that was carried out was done with the measurement of a machinal graph, and with appropriate action, it gave a sound result. Before posting your reference, need to know the background of these personals. Also they did not provide how they came to that conclusion, how did they detect that animals felts pain, nothing conclusive to show how it detected pain. Also why use anaesthetic?

At long last??!!....Umpteen studies prove that ritual slaughter is the most humane way vs 1.. ONE.. that says otherwise??!! Way to stand up for science Manny Goldstein
This is the whole problem with your perception of 'Truth' and 'Fact' Farhad; you are extremely selective.

Truth is truth and Fact is fact, but where a Truth or a Fact dovetails into your beliefs you accept them, and where they oppose your beliefs, you dismiss and reject them.

There is more scientific evidence that stunning animals prior to slaughtering them is a far more reliable pain-free method than non-stunning ritualistic methods, but you vehemently refuse to even examine such evidence because it 'flies in the face' of what you have been taught is the truth.

I fear that your stance is through blinkered obstinacy, whereas mine is the 'result' of genuine research and deep contemplation on a mind which was absolutely 'open' to begin with.

Although I rely on extensive research and my own intelligence when forming my opinion Farhad, I am always prepared to change that opinion if new information surfaces, and I have done so a few times,though not often.

Anyone who is so rigid in their opinion that they refuse to modify it - even in in the face of overwhelming evidence which proves such an opinion to be wrong - do not make ideal parties to any type of compromise -- in any area.

As for: "the link does not work" - just copy and paste it into Google.

To close, I will reproduce an article on this very subject relating to a news report of undercover filming inside an Halal Slaughterhouse in Thirsk:

"Inside the halal house of horrors:


Sickening footage shows 'evil' abattoir staff 'taunting sheep before hacking them to pieces'

Slaughtermen caught on camera 'hacking and sawing' at animals' throats

Sheep filmed being kicked, with one worker standing on an animal's neck

Staff laughed as a sheep bled to death with spectacles painted on its face

'Horrifying abuse' captured by animal rights campaigners at halal abattoir

One worker has been sacked and another three have been suspended

The Food Standards Agency has launched an urgent investigation

RSCPA and British Veterinary Association condemn 'shocking' footage

100,000-strong BVA petition means slaughter will be debated in Commons

A worker at a halal abattoir has been sacked and three others suspended after being filmed breaking strict rules on slaughtering sheep.

The men could face prosecution for the ‘horrifying yet routine abuse’ captured by animal rights campaigners using hidden cameras.

Slaughtermen at the Bowood Lamb abattoir in Thirsk, North Yorkshire, are seen ‘hacking and sawing’ at animals’ throats in apparent contravention of Islamic practice.

The RSPCA slammed the 'absolutely shocking' footage amid renewed calls to ban halal slaughter, which is opposed by the British Veterinary Association and 100,000 people in an online petition".
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Old 03-02-2015, 04:18 PM #85
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kirklancaster,

The simple truth is that a huge majority of the people who oppose halal are not thinking in a way to 'care for animals', but to bash muslims yet again. If it was any other religion the outrage would not be there.
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Old 03-02-2015, 04:59 PM #86
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The coverage on the news of the atrocity at Thirsk had me in tears this lunchtime.
I love Thirsk, I love the sheep in the fields around Thirsk, poor James Herriot wil be turning in his grave.
Such cruelty, those responsible should be jailed, never mnd them losing their licenses.
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Old 03-02-2015, 06:28 PM #87
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kirklancaster,

The simple truth is that a huge majority of the people who oppose halal are not thinking in a way to 'care for animals', but to bash muslims yet again. If it was any other religion the outrage would not be there.
Animal lovers are animal lovers and mostly apolitical Josh, so really this issue is about unnecessary, and even deliberate, cruelty to defenseless animals and not about "Muslim' bashing". The protest is against all ritualistic slaughtering of animals - Halhal or Kosher, and the demands of the protesters are for the stunning of animals prior to slaughtering to be made legally compulsorily not for the banning of ritualistic slaughter per se.

The reason that Halhal - and not Kosher - is predominant in posts on here regarding this issue, is because Farhad stated the Muslim point of view in defense of Halhal, whereas no Jewish member has brought the Judaic point of view into the thread.

There is a vast difference between legitimate comment and 'Muslim bashing' and you must learn to appreciate that difference.
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:21 AM #88
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I believe any one of us with an ounce of compassion will feel distressed by the recent news about the abattoir in Thirsk, not because its about Halal slaughter but because they employ bored psychopaths in the killing rooms.

There is enough good documentation which proves, stunning an animal before death deems it unconscious and therefore unaware of the events that follow. If not stunned, then a dead bolt through the head is instant and painless. I've stood with a few horses that had to be shot and although its distressing for us because it appears to be such a violent end, its quick, its clean and the horse was totally unaware of what was coming.

The slitting of a throat is painful, slow and terrifying and for that reason we wouldn't allow a vet to do this to our pet dogs, cats or horses. Whilst I have to accept that both halal and kosher slaughter will go on, I would rather it was done here in Britain under strict guidelines than shipped out on the hoof for slaughter in third world countries.
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Old 04-02-2015, 12:02 PM #89
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Originally Posted by smudgie View Post
The coverage on the news of the atrocity at Thirsk had me in tears this lunchtime.
I love Thirsk, I love the sheep in the fields around Thirsk, poor James Herriot wil be turning in his grave.
Such cruelty, those responsible should be jailed, never mind them losing their licenses.

Yes at least they were Sacked
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Old 04-02-2015, 12:47 PM #90
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I believe any one of us with an ounce of compassion will feel distressed by the recent news about the abattoir in Thirsk, not because its about Halal slaughter but because they employ bored psychopaths in the killing rooms.

There is enough good documentation which proves, stunning an animal before death deems it unconscious and therefore unaware of the events that follow. If not stunned, then a dead bolt through the head is instant and painless. I've stood with a few horses that had to be shot and although its distressing for us because it appears to be such a violent end, its quick, its clean and the horse was totally unaware of what was coming.

The slitting of a throat is painful, slow and terrifying and for that reason we wouldn't allow a vet to do this to our pet dogs, cats or horses. Whilst I have to accept that both halal and kosher slaughter will go on, I would rather it was done here in Britain under strict guidelines than shipped out on the hoof for slaughter in third world countries.
What a superbly written post.
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Old 04-02-2015, 01:10 PM #91
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What a superbly written post.
Thanks Kirk, I think you and I think very much alike.
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Old 04-02-2015, 04:55 PM #92
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Thanks Kirk, I think you and I think very much alike.
I recognised as much myself Dem. I'm glad we do.
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Old 05-02-2015, 04:09 PM #93
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I believe any one of us with an ounce of compassion will feel distressed by the recent news about the abattoir in Thirsk, not because its about Halal slaughter but because they employ bored psychopaths in the killing rooms.

There is enough good documentation which proves, stunning an animal before death deems it unconscious and therefore unaware of the events that follow. If not stunned, then a dead bolt through the head is instant and painless. I've stood with a few horses that had to be shot and although its distressing for us because it appears to be such a violent end, its quick, its clean and the horse was totally unaware of what was coming.

The slitting of a throat is painful, slow and terrifying and for that reason we wouldn't allow a vet to do this to our pet dogs, cats or horses. Whilst I have to accept that both halal and kosher slaughter will go on, I would rather it was done here in Britain under strict guidelines than shipped out on the hoof for slaughter in third world countries.
That may be true, but in practice is this what happens? There is also good evidence that this is not always the case and that the voltage and the time in between the stun and the slaughter are important contributory factors, it would exacerbate suffering if the animal regained consciousness during the process.
As you say there are strict guidelines and what the expose in Thirsk shows is there is a risk in deregulating this industry and that is what is the big issue here not halal slaughter.
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Old 05-02-2015, 05:25 PM #94
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I think however we may try to sanitise and underplay the death of animals for food the simple fact remains that we eat animals (and enjoy the taste) so we should not get too high and mighty about how the animal is slaughtered.

If we really did not want to see any animal suffering then we should all be vegetarians and stop rearing animals only to kill them later and eat their flesh.

Double standards, hypocrisy..?? maybe but bottom line if we cared enough, actually really cared for these animals then we wouldn't eat them.




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Old 08-02-2015, 11:10 PM #95
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Originally Posted by kirklancaster View Post
I was too busy yesterday to respond to your post, and I was preparing to do so this morning, when on the news came a report of undercover filming inside an Halal Slaughterhouse in Thirsk. I'll let a related article about it expound:

"Inside the halal house of horrors:


Sickening footage shows 'evil' abattoir staff 'taunting sheep before hacking them to pieces'

Slaughtermen caught on camera 'hacking and sawing' at animals' throats

Sheep filmed being kicked, with one worker standing on an animal's neck

Staff laughed as a sheep bled to death with spectacles painted on its face

'Horrifying abuse' captured by animal rights campaigners at halal abattoir

One worker has been sacked and another three have been suspended

The Food Standards Agency has launched an urgent investigation

RSCPA and British Veterinary Association condemn 'shocking' footage

100,000-strong BVA petition means slaughter will be debated in Commons

A worker at a halal abattoir has been sacked and three others suspended after being filmed breaking strict rules on slaughtering sheep.

The men could face prosecution for the ‘horrifying yet routine abuse’ captured by animal rights campaigners using hidden cameras.

Slaughtermen at the Bowood Lamb abattoir in Thirsk, North Yorkshire, are seen ‘hacking and sawing’ at animals’ throats in apparent contravention of Islamic practice.

The RSPCA slammed the 'absolutely shocking' footage amid renewed calls to ban halal slaughter, which is opposed by the British Veterinary Association and 100,000 people in an online petition".

When I was at school, as part of our English studies, we had 'Comprehension', where we had to read diverse types of literature - both fact and fiction - and then, in an 'exam' type setting, we had to write essays on what we had read, without the benefit of the source material. This was to prove that not only had we actually read what we were supposed to have read, but also that we fully understood what we had read.

I recommend such a practice to save 'egg on face'.
Put me right off my Kebab.
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:56 PM #96
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Originally Posted by kirklancaster View Post
This is the whole problem with your perception of 'Truth' and 'Fact' Farhad; you are extremely selective.

Truth is truth and Fact is fact, but where a Truth or a Fact dovetails into your beliefs you accept them, and where they oppose your beliefs, you dismiss and reject them.

There is more scientific evidence that stunning animals prior to slaughtering them is a far more reliable pain-free method than non-stunning ritualistic methods, but you vehemently refuse to even examine such evidence because it 'flies in the face' of what you have been taught is the truth.

I fear that your stance is through blinkered obstinacy, whereas mine is the 'result' of genuine research and deep contemplation on a mind which was absolutely 'open' to begin with.

Although I rely on extensive research and my own intelligence when forming my opinion Farhad, I am always prepared to change that opinion if new information surfaces, and I have done so a few times,though not often.

Anyone who is so rigid in their opinion that they refuse to modify it - even in in the face of overwhelming evidence which proves such an opinion to be wrong - do not make ideal parties to any type of compromise -- in any area.

As for: "the link does not work" - just copy and paste it into Google.

To close, I will reproduce an article on this very subject relating to a news report of undercover filming inside an Halal Slaughterhouse in Thirsk:

"Inside the halal house of horrors:


Sickening footage shows 'evil' abattoir staff 'taunting sheep before hacking them to pieces'

Slaughtermen caught on camera 'hacking and sawing' at animals' throats

Sheep filmed being kicked, with one worker standing on an animal's neck

Staff laughed as a sheep bled to death with spectacles painted on its face

'Horrifying abuse' captured by animal rights campaigners at halal abattoir

One worker has been sacked and another three have been suspended

The Food Standards Agency has launched an urgent investigation

RSCPA and British Veterinary Association condemn 'shocking' footage

100,000-strong BVA petition means slaughter will be debated in Commons

A worker at a halal abattoir has been sacked and three others suspended after being filmed breaking strict rules on slaughtering sheep.

The men could face prosecution for the ‘horrifying yet routine abuse’ captured by animal rights campaigners using hidden cameras.

Slaughtermen at the Bowood Lamb abattoir in Thirsk, North Yorkshire, are seen ‘hacking and sawing’ at animals’ throats in apparent contravention of Islamic practice.

The RSPCA slammed the 'absolutely shocking' footage amid renewed calls to ban halal slaughter, which is opposed by the British Veterinary Association and 100,000 people in an online petition".
As pointed out to you and another poster that the supposed conclusive research carried out is rather obscure, and it doesn't the method of their study and how they detected the pain. The research previously I mentioned was done by a leading scientists in that field, using electroencephalogram to observe how the brain functions after the slaughter. Many of notable scientist since 1927 have done their investigation into this topic and all of them seem to agree with one another, and suddenly this obscure Australian research says otherwise.
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Old 10-02-2015, 03:07 PM #97
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Yes just last week there was footage (Sunday Mirror)of a slaughterhouse being cruel in their treatment of animals,utterly barbaric,needless cruelty,people need to stand up to such things,otherwise it will go on,while vile humans inhabit the planet.
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Old 10-02-2015, 05:00 PM #98
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Yes just last week there was footage (Sunday Mirror)of a shaughterhouse being cruel in their treatment of animals,utterly barbaric,needless cruelty,people need to stand up to such things,otherwise it will go on,while vile humans inhabit the planet.
I think unfortunately it has always gone one and will always go on I think, people in general can be horrendously cruel. Not that that's an excuse - obviously when it is uncovered the people involved should be arrested and prosecuted (and properly, usually animal cruelty charges are very light).

I remember seeing g a video a few years ago that was really quite traumatic. People in a slaughterhouse picking up piglets by the ankles and slamming them repeatedly into a concrete floor. Really horrible stuff. And, I guess, shows that it goes on in "normal" slaughterhouses too, as halal / kosher slaughter obviously doesn't include pigs.
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