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Kizzy · 18-03-2015, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The campaign is going to be more interesting than I believed it would be.
I also still believe too that Ed Miliband can really make the argument in the campaign.

Although I hate personal attacks, on a programme it was said by a political pundit as to the Conservatives making constant personal attacks on Miliband.
'Insults come against someone when they are feared'.

I still think that is why Cameron will not face him head on too.

True Joey, it's purile playground politics and it's evidence that they are running scared, if any were needed.

MTVN · 18-03-2015, 08:50 PM

Ah c'mon both sides are as bad as each other for the cheap shots and punch and judy politics

Livia · 18-03-2015, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

Ah c'mon both sides are as bad as each other for the cheap shots and punch and judy politics

So true...

Vicky. · 18-03-2015, 08:55 PM

Quote:

I think the next govt will be Cons led coalition poss with SNP's and UKIP and maybe the Lib Dems but it will be 80% Tory with the same faces in the senior cabinet positions.

My god that idea scares the **** out of me.

Mind, last I heard Farage said no Tory backup unless he was guaranteed an EU referendum by the end of the year. Honestly..I don't think thats unreasonable. I would like a vote on it though I don't know which way I would go

Kizzy · 18-03-2015, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

Ah c'mon both sides are as bad as each other for the cheap shots and punch and judy politics

When has it actually been commented on by the media as excessive before though? It smacks of a rat backed into a corner... they've come flying out with insults and lies as they've nothing else.

joeysteele · 18-03-2015, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

When has it actually been commented on by the media as excessive before though? It smacks of a rat backed into a corner... they've come flying out with insults and lies as they've nothing else.

Not about this particular time but my Dad tells me that even as a Conservative voter he was very uncomfortable with the media and govt; with its attacks on Neil Kinnock, who my Dad didn't care for at all.
However he was really annoyed and nearly didn't vote at all in protest at what he says were really despicable attacking of Glenys Kinnock his wife in 2 elections.

Of course there are punch and judy politics but the deep personal attacks on Ed Miliband are unnecessary in my view.
I as a voter can engage in attacking the other parties for what they seem to stand for however,I would I hope always refrain from making attacks as to their appearance.
I think it is time polticians grew up and stopped that offputting part of punch and judy politics, in fact that is another thing this PM said he wanted to see happen, yet he has become one of the main offenders as to it and seems to even encourage it

As you point out too, sections of the media have described it as excessive.

Anyway, I have a feeling this budget,such as it was, will not have the impact hoped for.

joeysteele · 18-03-2015, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

My god that idea scares the **** out of me.

Mind, last I heard Farage said no Tory backup unless he was guaranteed an EU referendum by the end of the year. Honestly..I don't think thats unreasonable. I would like a vote on it though I don't know which way I would go

Scares me too, I really believe a Conservative led govt with UKIP either in support or full coalition would be a total disaster.
Mind you, to be fair to them, a great many decent Conservative MPs would detest completely doing any deal with UKIP, which could cause major problems for David Cameron.

Anyway,we will only get a referendum from David Cameron 'if' he gets an overall majority, if he doesn't even get an overall majority, he isn't even committed to any re-negotiations with the EU as that too is conditional on getting an overall majority for himself.

He for sure couldn't do any re-negotiations with all members of the EU in a few months, then a referendum bill would have to be debated in the commons and then have to get through the Lords,who could hold it up considerably.
So Nigel Farage knows full well, David Cameron could never deliver a referendum in that time so hopefully no deal can be forthcoming.
Not that I believe anyway that David Cameron ever intends to hold one.

arista · 18-03-2015, 09:52 PM

MB. · 18-03-2015, 10:13 PM

Sweet dreams all.

Kizzy · 18-03-2015, 10:18 PM

If you earn money and don't spend it, just leave it for them to gamble with great.
How will anyone on a 0hr contract get a morgage?....
1p off a pint (cue the that's for you northern oik memes)

the truth · 19-03-2015, 12:45 AM

new labour should be abolished. start the old labour party again and try to evolve from there. new labour were pure evil, everything they did was based on lies , deceit and of course lead to illegal wars and bankruptcy. I as you know detest some of their health and safety their petty pc drivel and the endless new [petty laws regulations stealth taxes and giving in to the European union disaster.......the gap between rich and poor grew to larger than for 200 years...they did nothing for industry, they nearly destroyed the UK, they tried to break up all unions they sold off the public utilies , they ripped up clause 4, passed 3000 mostly absurd laws, sucked up to Murdoch, grew government and enormous government waste and cover ups...took debt to all time records, oversaw the housing banking and stock market collapse, endless cover ups, filthy hospitals and disgraceful abuses across the nhs etc.....another term of labour and wed have gone to hell. they've learnt nothing grown not a bit and will repeat their own moronical policies.

the truth · 19-03-2015, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Scares me too, I really believe a Conservative led govt with UKIP either in support or full coalition would be a total disaster.
Mind you, to be fair to them, a great many decent Conservative MPs would detest completely doing any deal with UKIP, which could cause major problems for David Cameron.

Anyway,we will only get a referendum from David Cameron 'if' he gets an overall majority, if he doesn't even get an overall majority, he isn't even committed to any re-negotiations with the EU as that too is conditional on getting an overall majority for himself.

He for sure couldn't do any re-negotiations with all members of the EU in a few months, then a referendum bill would have to be debated in the commons and then have to get through the Lords,who could hold it up considerably.
So Nigel Farage knows full well, David Cameron could never deliver a referendum in that time so hopefully no deal can be forthcoming.
Not that I believe anyway that David Cameron ever intends to hold one.

It was a predictably pathetic budget which offered nothing for anyone
but the labour party is such a joke that frankly any muppet in 10 and 11 downing street would beat them. vat is the number 1 issue labour should attack them on, then chasing up corporate tax evasion, the nhs is looker weaker ground for labour though they messed that up big time....milibland may have to suck back up to the unions....sadly with him as leader harriet man hater harmon and ed balls up on the front row they haven't got a snowmans chance in hell

Kizzy · 19-03-2015, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the truth

new labour should be abolished. start the old labour party again and try to evolve from there. new labour were pure evil, everything they did was based on lies , deceit and of course lead to illegal wars and bankruptcy. I as you know detest some of their health and safety their petty pc drivel and the endless new [petty laws regulations stealth taxes and giving in to the European union disaster.......the gap between rich and poor grew to larger than for 200 years...they did nothing for industry, they nearly destroyed the UK, they tried to break up all unions they sold off the public utilies , they ripped up clause 4, passed 3000 mostly absurd laws, sucked up to Murdoch, grew government and enormous government waste and cover ups...took debt to all time records, oversaw the housing banking and stock market collapse, endless cover ups, filthy hospitals and disgraceful abuses across the nhs etc.....another term of labour and wed have gone to hell. they've learnt nothing grown not a bit and will repeat their own moronical policies.

I think you got your parties confused the tories sold the utilities... and nigh on everything else.

'Amid the early 80s recession, the Tories had begun to propose privatisation as a potential panacea. Conservative MP Geoffrey Howe extolled the "discipline" of the marketplace. The emerging doctrine was that privatisation would make the large utilities more efficient and productive, and thus make British capitalism competitive relative to its continental rivals. In this period, the government sold off Jaguar, British Telecom, the remainder of Cable & Wireless and British Aerospace, Britoil and British Gas.

'Following the Tories' third election victory, they were sufficiently confident to roll out their most aggressive privatisation programme yet. British Steel, British Petroleum, Rolls Royce, British Airways, water and electricity were among the major utilities for sale.'

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-privatisation

the truth · 19-03-2015, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I think you got your parties confused the tories sold the utilities... and nigh on everything else.

'Amid the early 80s recession, the Tories had begun to propose privatisation as a potential panacea. Conservative MP Geoffrey Howe extolled the "discipline" of the marketplace. The emerging doctrine was that privatisation would make the large utilities more efficient and productive, and thus make British capitalism competitive relative to its continental rivals. In this period, the government sold off Jaguar, British Telecom, the remainder of Cable & Wireless and British Aerospace, Britoil and British Gas.

'Following the Tories' third election victory, they were sufficiently confident to roll out their most aggressive privatisation programme yet. British Steel, British Petroleum, Rolls Royce, British Airways, water and electricity were among the major utilities for sale.'

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-privatisation

no not at all. Im well aware of the evil tories under Maggie thatcher milk snatcher, but what did new labour do to reverse this? nothing, they continued it, they were even worse. then managed to continue thatchers work but also managed to destroy the economy too...that's why if you had bothered to actually read my posts youd realise I ask for the original labour party to reform and for new labour to end. milibland , ed balls up and hariett haggard are all relics of the disastrous new labour so they have no chance....its 5 more years of tories im afraid and we need to start planning already for 2020 if any of us are still around then

Toy Soldier · 19-03-2015, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you earn money and don't spend it, just leave it for them to gamble with great.
How will anyone on a 0hr contract get a morgage?....
1p off a pint (cue the that's for you northern oik memes)

Not even just 0hr, mortgage lenders at the moment are too shy to lend on anything other than contracted hours. Loads of people on 16 - 35 hour contracts working more hours than that regularly. The system is a total mess. The only positive lately is the changed to paid holiday allowance (companies have to give paid holiday based on average hours worked per week, NOT contract hours)... Which to be fair is a large part of why zero-hour contracts exist at all. So that you can work full weeks but are not contractually entitled to paid holiday, sick pay, parental leave, etc.

Really bugged me even when I was on a 20 hour contract. I *always* worked far more hours, 30 to 40, but for holidays and paternity I was only paid for the contracted 20... Well short of my usual pay.

Total scam and good that it's being fixed.

Like I said though, won't be the same situation with lenders, and this 3k boost for first time buyers is totally useless while property prices are sky high and lenders are shylocking.

joeysteele · 19-03-2015, 09:24 AM

The point really is that the recovery we have at present is consumer led, lower prices and people spending again, the real hard input needed for solid growth and recovery are still not forthcoming,yet anyway.

This is described as a budget for savers but if people start saving rather than spending, then that could possibly affect the recovery and growth in a negative way,however that seems to be a risk that this Chancellor is prepared to take, despite his failures over the first near 4 years of this govt:

However this was a rather neutral budget in the main, some have termed it empty, such is the case that Ed Balls has apparantly stated that he as Chancellor would not reverse any of it.
Which rather takes the shine, that George Osborne tried to put on it, off it.

The only thing Ed Balls has said is that he will not cut as severely as this govt; was planning to,which in itself is the thing most needed now to also help recovery and growth, rather than 4 more years at least of the over extreme cutting that has gone on over the last 5 years already.

Also 'the truth', Kizzy was correct,it was the Conservative govt; that sold off all the utilities, rather cheaply too, for Labour to ahve reversed than by the time they came to power, they would have then rightly been pilloried for setting out on a very costly for the taxpayer indded programme of re-nationalising those utilities again.

They should never have been sold off in the first place,with hindsight.

Having said that, it is the one thing I wish the present Labour party would set out to look at doing now, I think there is a mood in the country for the energy companies to be taken to task and even for a return to state control of the energy industries, in fact the water industy too.
Not forgetting the railways.

I accept a lot of voters who dislike intensely this govt; are unsure of the alternative,however if like me, those doubters really want this govt; gone for the heartless and unjust way it has pursued its policies, then there is only one main alternative to support that can get rid of it for sure,and I for one will be voting for that change too.

LeatherTrumpet · 19-03-2015, 09:38 AM

It was a good day for the Tories yesterday

Livia · 19-03-2015, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

It was a good day for the Tories yesterday

It was a pretty good day for the Left too. It allowed them to unleash a display of histrionics the like of which has not been seen since the last budget.

Toy Soldier · 19-03-2015, 09:44 AM

Anyone can have a good day when they're willing to tell a pack of lies to gullible audience

.

Toy Soldier · 19-03-2015, 09:46 AM

I mean really. There are people out there who actually buy into the rhetoric that the economy is recovering. They're like "yaaaay it's over!! Thanks, Tories!". It must be quite nice to be so blissfully unaware of the fact that we're all ****ed.

joeysteele · 19-03-2015, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not even just 0hr, mortgage lenders at the moment are too shy to lend on anything other than contracted hours. Loads of people on 16 - 35 hour contracts working more hours than that regularly. The system is a total mess. The only positive lately is the changed to paid holiday allowance (companies have to give paid holiday based on average hours worked per week, NOT contract hours)... Which to be fair is a large part of why zero-hour contracts exist at all. So that you can work full weeks but are not contractually entitled to paid holiday, sick pay, parental leave, etc.

Really bugged me even when I was on a 20 hour contract. I *always* worked far more hours, 30 to 40, but for holidays and paternity I was only paid for the contracted 20... Well short of my usual pay.

Total scam and good that it's being fixed.

Like I said though, won't be the same situation with lenders, and this 3k boost for first time buyers is totally useless while property prices are sky high and lenders are shylocking.

At the supermarket where I live, the staff are on 16 hour contracts only now.

Most of them just cannot manage and as you say holidays and other leave only get the bare 16 hours pay.
That is a disgrace in my opinion and many of them say,they only get substantially more hours work over Christmas,easter and the main holiday period, end of july to early august...
Just about near impossible to budget adequately for that if you are the only one in work, yes it is okay for say the 2nd person in a relationship to have that position but if it is someone's main income, it makes life even harder even though they are considered by this govt; to be in 'full employment'.

This budget did not a single thing for any of those people, they have got some work but are getting kicked in the teeth for doing so by these smaller number of hours contracts.
Hours they may only get week after week but they also must always be available to do more if needed, so taking another job is out of the question.

I say, no one should be considered in full employment unless they are on at least 33 hours guaranteed work every week.
Then let's see the real unemployment figures,not the massaged ones.

joeysteele · 19-03-2015, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I mean really. There are people out there who actually buy into the rhetoric that the economy is recovering. They're like "yaaaay it's over!! Thanks, Tories!". It must be quite nice to be so blissfully unaware of the fact that we're all ****ed.

With a minimum of 4 more years still to come of severe austerity cuts again at least.
Which were all supposed to be done with by 2014/5 on this lots 2010 policies.

Doesn't sound much like even just a fair recovery,never mind a good recovery to me either.