[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Then refine the process, How difficult can it be to render someone unconscious?
Many have general anesthetics everyday while they are operated on, can this not be manipulated so they simply slip away?
I didn't really appreciate the description to be honest, nor did I request it.
Those with a morbid fascination for guns might feel this is some natural born killers Hollywood inspired death, I think the reality it will be very different. It does not take into consideration the person having to do the shooting either.

Some of the the shooters are given duds but none of them know which ones, so no one can know whose shots actually killed the 'victim'. The same process was routine in the British Army some years ago.

[Kizzy]

What a ridiculous charade, they will have been involved won't they? I know these will be trained people but it's still an ordeal.. the body to clean, the blood to remove, it's just so unnecessary.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What a ridiculous charade, they will have been involved won't they? I know these will be trained people but it's still an ordeal.. the body to clean, the blood to remove, it's just so unnecessary.

this is why i suggest shoot them over an open grave and then when they fall in, dead, just fill it in and move on

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

this is why i suggest shoot them over an open grave and then when they fall in, dead, just fill it in and move on

Did you see that in a film?... This is real life, that would never happen.

[Shaun]

This is depressing.

[Kizzy]

It's a thread about killing people, what were you expecting shaun?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's a thread about killing people, what were you expecting shaun?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Then refine the process, How difficult can it be to render someone unconscious?
Many have general anesthetics everyday while they are operated on, can this not be manipulated so they simply slip away?
I didn't really appreciate the description to be honest, nor did I request it.
Those with a morbid fascination for guns might feel this is some natural born killers Hollywood inspired death, I think the reality it will be very different. It does not take into consideration the person having to do the shooting either.

There are different levels of unconsciousness though, someone can appear completely unresponsive but actually be semi aware (able to experience pain but "out of it") or even completely aware (pain, sound, clear thought). Some coma patients are able to recount entire conversations that were had around them when medical staff thought they were not conscious.

Anesthesiology is an entire medical discipline, it is very very complex. The only way they could more or less ensure that it's done correctly would be to have it carried out by a trained anaesthetist, and I don't think many are particularly keen to train for years in a delicate area to learn how to not kill people... And then start a career doing the opposite. Even then, there are plenty of documented cases of patients being aware, but paralysed, during surgery. It's also thought that it might even be more common than is reported - some patients might be aware at times during their surgery but subconsciously "blocking" the traumatic memory.

[Samuel.]

Y'all really comparing firing squads and lethal injections as if the death sentence is okay in the first place?

Of all the forums I've been a part of, turns out the one about Big Brother is the darkest... who knew

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What a ridiculous charade, they will have been involved won't they? I know these will be trained people but it's still an ordeal.. the body to clean, the blood to remove, it's just so unnecessary.

It's proven to help the 'shooters' psychologically, and I hardly think the 'firing squad' do the cleaning and clearing, and whoever does do it will most certainly be blasé about it - as indeed mortuary staff are.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There are different levels of unconsciousness though, someone can appear completely unresponsive but actually be semi aware (able to experience pain but "out of it") or even completely aware (pain, sound, clear thought). Some coma patients are able to recount entire conversations that were had around them when medical staff thought they were not conscious.

Anesthesiology is an entire medical discipline, it is very very complex. The only way they could more or less ensure that it's done correctly would be to have it carried out by a trained anaesthetist, and I don't think many are particularly keen to train for years in a delicate area to learn how to not kill people... And then start a career doing the opposite. Even then, there are plenty of documented cases of patients being aware, but paralysed, during surgery. It's also thought that it might even be more common than is reported - some patients might be aware at times during their surgery but subconsciously "blocking" the traumatic memory.

1,000% accurate T.S.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There are different levels of unconsciousness though, someone can appear completely unresponsive but actually be semi aware (able to experience pain but "out of it") or even completely aware (pain, sound, clear thought). Some coma patients are able to recount entire conversations that were had around them when medical staff thought they were not conscious.

Anesthesiology is an entire medical discipline, it is very very complex. The only way they could more or less ensure that it's done correctly would be to have it carried out by a trained anaesthetist, and I don't think many are particularly keen to train for years in a delicate area to learn how to not kill people... And then start a career doing the opposite. Even then, there are plenty of documented cases of patients being aware, but paralysed, during surgery. It's also thought that it might even be more common than is reported - some patients might be aware at times during their surgery but subconsciously "blocking" the traumatic memory.

Wow we really are having to labour a point here.....
It's not hard to render someone unconscious, if you don't agree that's fine.
I find firing squads a huge backwards step.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Wow we really are having to labour a point here.....
It's not hard to render someone unconscious, if you don't agree that's fine.
I find firing squads a huge backwards step.

I don't "not agree" I just know it isn't the case, Kizzy. I'm sure all of the anaesthetists - who train for ten to twelve YEARS to become fully qualified - would disagree with the statement that it's "not hard to render someone unconscious".

It's a slightly moot point as I actually don't really agree with the death sentence at all. But if it must be done, there are much quicker and completely painless ways to carry it out.

The lethal injection became popular because it's "more modern seeming" and "cleaner". It's certainly preferable to the electric chair which was in common usage in the US. However, just because it's the cleanest and quietest way does not mean it's necessarily the most humane.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't "not agree" I just know it isn't the case, Kizzy. I'm sure all of the anesthetists - who train for ten to twelve YEARS to become fully qualified - would disagree with the statement that it's "not hard to render someone unconscious".

It's a slightly moot point as I actually don't really agree with the death sentence at all. But if it must be done, there are much quicker and completely painless ways to carry it out.

The lethal injection became popular because it's "more modern seeming" and "cleaner". It's certainly preferable to the electric chair which was in common usage in the US. However, just because it's the cleanest and quietest way does not mean it's necessarily the most humane.

You may say they wouldn't want to do this, but you don't know this as a fact...
The ethical debate around the death penalty is as pertinent to those in the medical profession as anyone. If you had an anesthetist who was pro the death penalty they may not feel as conflicted about being involved, you couldn't confidently suggest that is not a possibility.

I don't find firing squads humane or ethical.

[Toy Soldier]

I don't find firing squads humane or ethical either, but no less than lethal injection. I don't really think there is a humane or ethical way to kill someone. If it must be done then it should be done with the least chance of pain. That isn't the needle. It's that simple.

Even if it was perfected I don't think it's humane. You would feel yourself drifting. Even pain free, that's not instant. You feel your eyes drooping and that you're edging towards a sleep that you will never wake up from. Most people would prefer an instant death, surely?

[AnnieK]

No form of capital punishment is humane in my opinion. If it has to be carried out it should only be in circumstances of absolute guilt.

However, had someone killed one of mine...I'd gladly fire the gun, press the needle or pull the lever.

Hmmm....I think I have some double standards going on.

[Kizzy]

If their last moments are as spent reflecting on their crime as they drift away then that is as respectful as can be expected.
Anticipating a hail of bullets is an unnecessarily violent end, causing huge amount of fear, anxiety and stress. It's an ordeal rather than a procedure, and let's not forget that the method is not the punishment.

[lostalex]

what if they could install some type of poison gas vents in the death row cells, that way they could pump gas into the cell of the prisoner while they are sleeping and the prisoner would not even know it was happening or when it would happen. i think that would be the most humane way. that way they would just pass away in their sleep and not be scared before they die.

[Tom4784]

They might as well legalise it given how the US police force seem to be executing people left and right anyway.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

They might as well legalise it given how the US police force seem to be executing people left and right anyway.

There's no such thing as a US police force.

[Kyle]

Wow, facing off a group of lads with guns. That's the kind of thing that would make one sh*t one's temple garments amiright kirk?

Not a fan of the death penalty at all but between being subjected to a Mormon mission or a hailstorm of bullets I'll take being a human Swiss cheese any day of the week.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If their last moments are as spent reflecting on their crime as they drift away then that is as respectful as can be expected.
Anticipating a hail of bullets is an unnecessarily violent end, causing huge amount of fear, anxiety and stress. It's an ordeal rather than a procedure, and let's not forget that the method is not the punishment.

So standing against a wall anticipating a hail of bullets causes a huge amount of fear, anxiety and stress... but being strapped to a table anticipating an injection that will cause your heart to spasm and stop doesn't? In fact, it somehow induces a state of almost meditation-like calm where the person philosophically ponders the implications of their crime? Yes that seems entirely plausible.

Again Kizzy I'm not saying that it isn't an ordeal, or that it isn't barbaric... I'm not saying that the firing squad isn't bad. I'm saying it isn't worse than the lethal injection. It's not that I think death by firing squad is A-OK, it's just that I think you have a very muted and idealised concept of what's involved with the lethal injection. It's NOT like a vet putting down a dog, at all.

I sort of agree with Alex - if it really must be done, the most humane way would be to somehow poison them in their sleep, ideally without them even knowing exactly when it's going to happen. They just go to sleep one night like any other night and don't wake up.

[Livia]

The demise of the kind of people who receive the death penalty concerns me less than what they did to their victims and what they put them through. They haven't received the death penalty for unpaid parking fines.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So standing against a wall anticipating a hail of bullets causes a huge amount of fear, anxiety and stress... but being strapped to a table anticipating an injection that will cause your heart to spasm and stop doesn't? In fact, it somehow induces a state of almost meditation-like calm where the person philosophically ponders the implications of their crime? Yes that seems entirely plausible.

Again Kizzy I'm not saying that it isn't an ordeal, or that it isn't barbaric... I'm not saying that the firing squad isn't bad. I'm saying it isn't worse than the lethal injection. It's not that I think death by firing squad is A-OK, it's just that I think you have a very muted and idealised concept of what's involved with the lethal injection. It's NOT like a vet putting down a dog, at all.

I sort of agree with Alex - if it really must be done, the most humane way would be to somehow poison them in their sleep, ideally without them even knowing exactly when it's going to happen. They just go to sleep one night like any other night and don't wake up.

I didn't say it was like a dog being but down did I?...
I have as much as an insight as you TS as neither of us have been within 10,000 miles of an execution.
I don't agree with bringing back firing squads and I don't agree with bringing back the gas chamber either.

If the punishment is death then no matter how violent the crime the penance is the act of execution not the style.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Wow, facing off a group of lads with guns. That's the kind of thing that would make one sh*t one's temple garments amiright kirk?

Not a fan of the death penalty at all but between being subjected to a Mormon mission or a hailstorm of bullets I'll take being a human Swiss cheese any day of the week.

Right again Kyle (you smarty twot )