[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

If they consent to having sex under certain conditions and then it turns out they will be having sex under conditions they did not agree to.. that is rape.

Conditions, what conditions? it's sex not a proposal of marriage, there's no contract to be signed.

[Toy Soldier]

I would also point out Josh, that if what youre saying is taken as true, then any woman who has sex with a man who has not seen her without make-up on is "raping him".

It's nonsense. People lie about all sorts of things. The correct course of action is, only have sex with someone if you feel sexually attracted to them and want to have sex. No ulterior motives. Then it isn't a problem.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Conditions, what conditions? it's sex not a proposal of marriage, there's no contract to be signed.

In this scenario the conditions would be that they would be having sex 'because he is wealthy' and so that is what they agreed to. Whether or not that is morally correct is another argument, but I would say that this would be rape. Not as severe as other types but rape nonetheless.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I would also point out Josh, that if what youre saying is taken as true, then any woman who has sex with a man who has not seen her without make-up on is "raping him".

It's nonsense. People lie about all sorts of things. The correct course of action is, only have sex with someone if you feel sexually attracted to them and want to have sex. No ulterior motives. Then it isn't a problem.

Not at all. In the situation mentioned the person explicitly told a lie for sex. If a guy has not seen a woman without makeup and has sex with them, it would only technically be rape if she lied about what she looked like without makeup or something like that.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

In this scenario the conditions would be that they would be having sex 'because he is wealthy' and so that is what they agreed to. Whether or not that is morally correct is another argument, but I would say that this would be rape. Not as severe as other types but rape nonetheless.

It wasn't rape in any sense of the word.

[Liam-]

No-one is forcing these women to jump into bed with them, if they want to get it on with someone because they think they're rich or successful but in reality the guy isn't, then more fool them and their shallowness imo.

[Kyle]

The thread that keeps on giving.

I'm going to bookmark this one.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

In this scenario the conditions would be that they would be having sex 'because he is wealthy' and so that is what they agreed to. Whether or not that is morally correct is another argument, but I would say that this would be rape. Not as severe as other types but rape nonetheless.

I will agree with you ONLY on the premise that the woman has explicitly stated before engaging in sexual intercourse that they are only doing it because they believe the man to be wealthy.

Which is a technicality; I doubt that has happened very often, if ever.

[RichardG]

Isn't rape when you force someone have sex with you against their will?? Regardless of what either one said to each other beforehand, so long as they both consented then I don't see how it could be classified as rape. Perhaps it's morally questionable to lie about such a thing to try and get someone to sleep with you but so long as he doesn't use that reason as an excuse to 'push' or 'force' himself onto her - physically or mentally - and she fully accepts the sex, then I guess I don't really see an actual legal problem here.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

If they consent to having sex under certain conditions and then it turns out they will be having sex under conditions they did not agree to.. that is rape.

and is it rape if it's the other way round and it's the woman who lied?

[Niamh.]

Josh I can't believe someone actually agreed with this

[kirklancaster]

It ain't rape - it's prostitution.

[Niamh.]

Also all you people comparing it to a woman wearing make up instead of a like for like situation as if a man would never sleep with a woman because he was after her money

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Also all you people comparing it to a woman wearing make up instead of a like for like situation as if a man would never sleep with a woman because he was after her money

Fair point, lots of cougars around these days

[LeatherTrumpet]

#justiceforgolddiggers

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Josh I can't believe someone actually agreed with this

Josh's heart is always in the right place!

I think the only problem is distinguishing between what's moral and what should actually be legislated against. No one would argue that lying to get sex is a crappy thing to do (and also INCREDIBLY sad...) but then, having sex with someone just because they're (supposedly) rich if you wouldn't have wanted to otherwise is pretty crappy too... So it sort of cancels out for me on the morality scales .

I mean, pretending to be a millionaire for sex is bad, but surely it's much better than pretending that you love someone for sex? And how many people do that!

[DylanD]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

So you tell a woman or man that you're a city banker instead of telling them you actually work in Maccy D's so they'll sleep with you.
Is this rape?
Well according to some feminists it should be illegal and a prisonable offence called 'rape by fraud'

Youtube video

What do you think?Is this 'rape by fraud'? Or just some crazy women wanting revenge for being lied to?

Strange how when a woman speaks out, she's labelled a Feminist. As for stating it's nothing more than seeking revenge for being lied to, perhaps instead you should be asking yourself this question: "Would I be okay with being lied to by someone pretending to be someone else?" We all tell lies at times. We tell someone they don't look fat because we don't want to hurt their feelings or we lie and make an excuse when late for work. This is something else entirely. This is about men (and women) who deliberately lie about who they are to get what they want. If you're intimate with someone, wouldn't you want and expect them to be honest with you? Or is it okay to lie, con, dupe and manipulate so long as you get what you want out of it? Would you be okay if your daughter was lied to, conned and duped and manipulated, or would you call them whiny little feminist bitches seeking revenge? Sure, there are women and men out there seeking casual sex but that's not what this is about. Look at the bigger picture before judging.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by DylanD

Strange how when a woman speaks out, she's labelled a Feminist. As for stating it's nothing more than seeking revenge for being lied to, perhaps instead you should be asking yourself this question: "Would I be okay with being lied to by someone pretending to be someone else?" We all tell lies at times. We tell someone they don't look fat because we don't want to hurt their feelings or we lie and make an excuse when late for work. This is something else entirely. This is about men (and women) who deliberately lie about who they are to get what they want. If you're intimate with someone, wouldn't you want and expect them to be honest with you? Or is it okay to lie, con, dupe and manipulate so long as you get what you want out of it? Would you be okay if your daughter was lied to, conned and duped and manipulated, or would you call them whiny little feminist bitches seeking revenge? Sure, there are women and men out there seeking casual sex but that's not what this is about. Look at the bigger picture before judging.

You make very good points.But the question is'nt wether lying is moral,It's not nice to be lied to but the question is wether it is a form of rape and should be illegal and a prisonable offence.
Not judging,Just asking the question.
My opinion is that lying to impress somebody is not nice but it is not and should not be illegal.If it was then anybody who lies to their GF/BF would end up in court whenever they had a falling out.It would open up a whole can of worms in the courts when couples break up and hate each other.Divorce hearings would be full of 'rape fraud' accusations.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by DylanD

Strange how when a woman speaks out, she's labelled a Feminist. As for stating it's nothing more than seeking revenge for being lied to, perhaps instead you should be asking yourself this question: "Would I be okay with being lied to by someone pretending to be someone else?" We all tell lies at times. We tell someone they don't look fat because we don't want to hurt their feelings or we lie and make an excuse when late for work. This is something else entirely. This is about men (and women) who deliberately lie about who they are to get what they want. If you're intimate with someone, wouldn't you want and expect them to be honest with you? Or is it okay to lie, con, dupe and manipulate so long as you get what you want out of it? Would you be okay if your daughter was lied to, conned and duped and manipulated, or would you call them whiny little feminist bitches seeking revenge? Sure, there are women and men out there seeking casual sex but that's not what this is about. Look at the bigger picture before judging.

Lying and pretending to be someone you're not isn't moral, I wouldn't be ok with it, it's a ****ty thing to do... But would I make it illegal or brand the person who did it as a rapist?? Errrr let me think. No. That would be an absolutely behemoth overreaction. People lie. If we start locking them up for it the world will be pretty empty.

Wife: "I'm leaving you... I'm not happy. I've fallen out of love with you."
Husband: "but we had sex last night... And you said you loved me!"
Wife: "I'm sorry, I lied. I don't love you."
Husband: "you lied?? Rape! False pretences! I have been violated, you beast, off to jail with you!"

[Ninastar]

all men are evil!!!! i read something once that said 90% of men want to rape so it must be true!!!

[MTVN]

To play devil's advocate here, we do criminalise lying all the time in cases like fraud, libel, slander etc. It's an offence to lie if you're extracting material gain from someone or if you're ruining their reputation so it's not that big a leap for it to be an offence based on causing emotional trauma. I get the sense that this is not really about one night stands where someone pretends to be rich to help his chances with a girl, but more about cases which could involve long-term deception which prey on someone's vulnerability. Cases more akin to this guy who would trick women into having sex with him thinking they were paying a sexual bribe to save a relative from non-existent legal trouble. It obviously would be extremely difficult to draw that line when a relatively harmless lie becomes a criminal act though.

[Ammi]

..the vid isn't showing for me so it's hard to get the context of this exactly but rape is without consent and this surely would be with consent even if that person has sais that they're something/someone they're not..they've only not exactly consented to the 'persona' they are...

[Joyce M Short]

EyeBallPaul

You make a very good point....

"But the question is'nt wether lying is moral,It's not nice to be lied to but the question is wether it is a form of rape and should be illegal and a prisonable offence.
Not judging,Just asking the question."

So here's your answer:

Lying is not a crime. Morally reprehensible, but not criminal. Here's when it becomes a crime..... when it's used as a means to cause harm to someone.

So lying to attract a person is not prosecutorial. But lying to engage in a sexual act is prosecutorial because it induces consent to the sexual act that the victim would not otherwise consent to. They were deprived of their consent. The did not agree to their consent under the law.

[Joyce M Short]

Here's where the line is drawn...

Cases that are prosecutorial require substantial proof. The police and Prosecutor must be convinced that the proof will actually sustain an indictment. It can't be a he-said, she said.

In addition, in all crimes, the victim must have behaved in a manner that is deemed to be "reasonable" behavior. And juries make determinations about that criteria all the time. Sexual Assault by Fraud cases would not be unique in that regard.

[Joyce M Short]

Chaos-

Actually, the statistic is 30%, and it has been tested 3 times. Once in California, in Canada and, most recently at the University of Nebraska where male college students were asked if they would force a woman to have sex with them if they thought they could get a way with it, with no repercussions.

When the description was changed to include the term rape, however, the response dropped to 13%, therefore, many men do not understand that forcing a woman to have sex with them is rape.