[Toy Soldier]

So on the actual thread topic... I never watched Supergirl S4 and am trying to catch up but I'm really struggling. The whole immigration/xenophobia metaphor with the literal alien population - whilst it's a noble message they're trying to further - is being handled with the subtlety of a hammer to the teeth and it's just not good telly . Also, The Flash has already covered many aspects of the same topic / issues of prejudice etc. with Metahumans but in a way that was much more effectively interwoven with the overall narrative. It sort of IS the entire narrative in what I've seen of S4 Supergirl so far and it's a swing and a miss. I mean, the current villain went from an enlightened and accepting college professor telling off his ol' dad for being racist, to a borderline Nazi, screeching "snowflake!" at an alien student, pretty much over night, because his house burned down during the Daxamite invasion. In the flashback I was expecting to see his wife or kid get killed... or at least his racist ol' dad... but no his family was all unharmed. Yes it would be awful but no one goes from peace'n'love to Human-supremacist because of a house fire!

[Nicky91]

that current villain, played by sam witwer he's now in newest season of riverdale too

i quite like his acting

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So on the actual thread topic... I never watched Supergirl S4 and am trying to catch up but I'm really struggling. The whole immigration/xenophobia metaphor with the literal alien population - whilst it's a noble message they're trying to further - is being handled with the subtlety of a hammer to the teeth and it's just not good telly . Also, The Flash has already covered many aspects of the same topic / issues of prejudice etc. with Metahumans but in a way that was much more effectively interwoven with the overall narrative. It sort of IS the entire narrative in what I've seen of S4 Supergirl so far and it's a swing and a miss. I mean, the current villain went from an enlightened and accepting college professor telling off his ol' dad for being racist, to a borderline Nazi, screeching "snowflake!" at an alien student, pretty much over night, because his house burned down during the Daxamite invasion. In the flashback I was expecting to see his wife or kid get killed... or at least his racist ol' dad... but no his family was all unharmed. Yes it would be awful but no one goes from peace'n'love to Human-supremacist because of a house fire!

The first half of season 4 is terrible because it's just got no subtlety to it, as you said, plus it's got some bad messaging to it ('Neutral media is a bad thing!') but it really does come into it's own in the second half, it's kind of the reverse of season 3, the first half of Season 3 was excellent while the second half was a complete filler-y mess.

They calm down with the preaching and get better at telling a story that's meant to echo the US' current situation. The second half of Season 4 is Supergirl at it's best.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

that current villain, played by sam witwer he's now in newest season of riverdale too

i quite like his acting

Yes, Starkiller/Deacon St. John... he's a decent enough actor, just not sure about the material he's been given here.






I believe he also played Doomsday in Smallville.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The first half of season 4 is terrible because it's just got no subtlety to it, as you said, plus it's got some bad messaging to it ('Neutral media is a bad thing!') but it really does come into it's own in the second half, it's kind of the reverse of season 3, the first half of Season 3 was excellent while the second half was a complete filler-y mess.

They calm down with the preaching and get better at telling a story that's meant to echo the US' current situation. The second half of Season 4 is Supergirl at it's best.

I'll stick with it 'cause I want to be properly caught up for the Crisis storyline. I think I must actually have stopped watching in early S3 though, because I hadn't seen Brainiac-5 before

[Oliver_W]

Can I ask how y'all watch the shows? do you sail the high seas, or are they on a streaming service I'm unaware of?

(I know most of Arrow is included on Prime)

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Can I ask how y'all watch the shows? do you sail the high seas, or are they on a streaming service I'm unaware of?

(I know most of Arrow is included on Prime)

Sky airs all the shows that apart from Black Lightning but they tend to do so with quite an eratic schedule. Black Lightning is on Netflix.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Sky airs all the shows that apart from Black Lightning but they tend to do so with quite an eratic schedule. Black Lightning is on Netflix.

oh i don't have Sky thanks anyway

[Toy Soldier]

They're on Netflix in pretty much every country EXCEPT the UK, because Sky has the airing rights. Such BS. You can actually legitimately(ish?) watch them on Netflix using a VPN though, just set your "location" to the US, etc.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The second half of Season 4 is Supergirl at it's best.

I'm on Episode 16 now and quite enjoying it to be fair. Alan fron Two And A Half Men makes a strangely half-decent Lex Luthor .

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm on Episode 16 now and quite enjoying it to be fair. Alan fron Two And A Half Men makes a strangely half-decent Lex Luthor .

He's a legacy actually, he played a child relative of Lex's in Superman 4 which got widely panned so they brought him back to play Lex as a nod and a chance of redemption. They do quite like nods like that on Supergirl since the actress who plays Kara and Alex's mom played Supergirl in the panned film from the 80's.

[Tom4784]

But yeah, I think the second half is way less heavy handed and it improves tenfold when Lex is introduced.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

He's a legacy actually, he played a child relative of Lex's in Superman 4 which got widely panned so they brought him back to play Lex as a nod and a chance of redemption. They do quite like nods like that on Supergirl since the actress who plays Kara and Alex's mom played Supergirl in the panned film from the 80's.

Wasn't the dad Dean Cain? And Teri Hatcher was Mon-El's mum too.

Nothing can beat Biff Tannen being in Legends, though.

[Toy Soldier]

I wonder, is the Kara/Clark disguise supposed to be some sort of... extra power? There's just been a bit where someone was chasing her, turns a corner and there's "Kara" and he's like "Durrr where did Supergirl go?" and it just jumps the shark so hard (as it always has with every iteration of Superman etc.) that my new head-canon is that the Kryptonians actually have an extra power, like the Doctor Who "perception filter", where people literally can't see them as the same person when they're out of the suit unless they already know the identity.

I mean... even Brainy said that "Kara and Supergirl look nothing alike!" when he had temporarily "boxed up" his memory of her identity. It just doesn't make sense... like he would have super-advanced facial recognition tech ...

[Nicky91]

the actor who plays Brainy (Jesse Rath) he is a brother of Meaghan Rath (who is currently in the rebooted Hawaii Five-O series)

and

Spoiler:

Meghan will have a little role on supergirl somewhere too, playing another Brainy like character

[Toy Soldier]

Why have they gone with a storyline featuring multiple Green Martians in early S5?? The Green Martian CGI is hilariously bad. It's bad even when it's just an occasional glimpse of Jon, IMO they should stick to mainly keeping him in human form like they did in Smallville (using the red eyes to show when he's "powered up").

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I wonder, is the Kara/Clark disguise supposed to be some sort of... extra power? There's just been a bit where someone was chasing her, turns a corner and there's "Kara" and he's like "Durrr where did Supergirl go?" and it just jumps the shark so hard (as it always has with every iteration of Superman etc.) that my new head-canon is that the Kryptonians actually have an extra power, like the Doctor Who "perception filter", where people literally can't see them as the same person when they're out of the suit unless they already know the identity.

I mean... even Brainy said that "Kara and Supergirl look nothing alike!" when he had temporarily "boxed up" his memory of her identity. It just doesn't make sense... like he would have super-advanced facial recognition tech ...

I believe they've tackled this a few times in the comics, when it comes to Superman, they've explained it by saying that he changes his body language completely when he is Clark and he tends to wear bigger, baggier clothes to make Clark look out of shape. The glasses themselves make his eyes look different too, I believe.

I remember Henry Cavill standing around in front of a Batman Vs Superman billboard in New York while wearing glasses and no one actually recognised him or made the connection between him wearing glasses and the picture of Superman on the billboard.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Why have they gone with a storyline featuring multiple Green Martians in early S5?? The Green Martian CGI is hilariously bad. It's bad even when it's just an occasional glimpse of Jon, IMO they should stick to mainly keeping him in human form like they did in Smallville (using the red eyes to show when he's "powered up").

Yeah, they don't really have the budget to make the Martians work, it's less jarring with the less humanoid aliens but the humanoid CGI is atrocious.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I believe they've tackled this a few times in the comics, when it comes to Superman, they've explained it by saying that he changes his body language completely when he is Clark and he tends to wear bigger, baggier clothes to make Clark look out of shape. The glasses themselves make his eyes look different too, I believe.

I remember Henry Cavill standing around in front of a Batman Vs Superman billboard in New York while wearing glasses and no one actually recognised him or made the connection between him wearing glasses and the picture of Superman on the billboard.

True and that effect could even explain the Luthor henchman guy not realising that Kara was Supergirl... but, it sort of falls apart when it's people who have extensive close up contact with BOTH people e.g. Lois Lane not seeing Superman and being like "lol... Clark? ", or Lena Luthor here. I mean, if your literal best friend was stood in front of you in pretty much any costume barring a full mask, obviously you would recognise them...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Yeah, they don't really have the budget to make the Martians work, it's less jarring with the less humanoid aliens but the humanoid CGI is atrocious.

It's even OK-ish when they're just stood there, or flying around / fighting... but when they TALK... ...

[Toy Soldier]

Hold on. I'm watching episode 3. Now Jon and other martians - in the past, on Mars - are just kicking around in human form . This doesn't even make sense.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

True and that effect could even explain the Luthor henchman guy not realising that Kara was Supergirl... but, it sort of falls apart when it's people who have extensive close up contact with BOTH people e.g. Lois Lane not seeing Superman and being like "lol... Clark? ", or Lena Luthor here. I mean, if your literal best friend was stood in front of you in pretty much any costume barring a full mask, obviously you would recognise them...

In the comics Commissioner Gordon had several conversations with Batgirl, and didn't realise it was his own daughter But when Dick Grayson was filling in for Bruce, Gordon noticed it was someone else under the cowl?!

That said, I went as Robin for a Halloween party and a friend (who to be fair I only when we're drinking) was like "... you are who I think you are under there, right?" I had an eye mask and slicked back hair.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

In the comics Commissioner Gordon had several conversations with Batgirl, and didn't realise it was his own daughter But when Dick Grayson was filling in for Bruce, Gordon noticed it was someone else under the cowl?!

That said, I went as Robin for a Halloween party and a friend (who to be fair I only when we're drinking) was like "... you are who I think you are under there, right?" I had an eye mask and slicked back hair.

Batman and the other "masked" heroes make more sense because human facial recognition is heavily based on the eyes (hence the "black eye bars" on pictures when someone is being disguised). SOME versions of superman have looked very different in glasses also... but Kara looks so similar as both. Actually, CW Superman is even more of a stretch - he's a really distinctive looking guy, he looks exactly the same as Clark and Superman

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Batman and the other "masked" heroes make more sense because human facial recognition is heavily based on the eyes (hence the "black eye bars" on pictures when someone is being disguised). SOME versions of superman have looked very different in glasses also... but Kara looks so similar as both. Actually, CW Superman is even more of a stretch - he's a really distinctive looking guy, he looks exactly the same as Clark and Superman

I take your point but the illustrator at the time drew her to be almost "cute", the eyeholes were big and I think you could even see her nose and mouth it was still a Barman-type cowl, just very stylised.

ANyway, it's a shame Dean Cain isn't one of the Alt-Supermen, Lois and Clarke is great.


Martian Manhunter is the comics leader of the Justice League, are there any rumours we might see a form of that on the Arrowverse?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I take your point but the illustrator at the time drew her to be almost "cute", the eyeholes were big and I think you could even see her nose and mouth it was still a Barman-type cowl, just very stylised.



ANyway, it's a shame Dean Cain isn't one of the Alt-Supermen, Lois and Clarke is great.





Martian Manhunter is the comics leader of the Justice League, are there any rumours we might see a form of that on the Arrowverse?

I think it would conflict with their movie plans, the CW crossover events are essentially justice-league-light but never actually called that. Superman was in last years crossover, Barry and Kara are interdimensional BFFs etc.

I think Dean Cain would have been a stretch, he's not unfit these days exactly but it would have taken some gym work to get him back in a Superman suit...