[Ammi]

..I agree with James, I think on the internet it's not necessarily that some will say what they really think but more what they think will provoke reaction and negatives will always provoke the most reaction...

..I'm a bit dubious about this as a social experiment type thing though...because if 'shaming/dehumanising' migrants is what is being fed, then doesn't this provoke a similar thing/feeling toward the 'DM reader section of society'...let's 'hate the haters', let's compare their comments to Nazi comments...it's just addressing a negative with another negative surely...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

doesn't this provoke a similar thing/feeling toward the 'DM reader section of society'...

This is a bit of a stretch surely Ammi . Justice for Daily Mail Internet Commentators! They're human too!

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This is a bit of a stretch surely Ammi . Justice for Daily Mail Internet Commentators! They're human too!

..I'm really not with it this morning TS but hmmmm, not really../a stretch...if 'internet hate' has become a thing then so also has the 'hate of haters'...I mean it all builds hate on hate, doesn't it...don't we see that all of the time, someone is portrayed by the media as a hateful person or a completely negative person..(or a section of society is portrayed as such..)..so hate is directed toward them and then hate is directed toward the haters for their comments..?...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I'm really not with it this morning TS but hmmmm, not really../a stretch...if 'internet hate' has become a thing then so also has the 'hate of haters'...I mean it all builds hate on hate, doesn't it...don't we see that all of the time, someone is portrayed by the media as a hateful person or a completely negative person..(or a section of society is portrayed as such..)..so hate is directed toward them and then hate is directed toward the haters for their comments..?...

I guess it depends on your overall feelings towards "hatred", although I think hatred is too strong a word, and would rather go with disdain. In which case, it's (for me) perfectly justifiable to express disdain for people who choose to spit toxic, hateful and xenophobic bile over Internet comments sections. The position that immigrants should be allowed to drown / rounded up and shot with no concern at all for who they actually are as individuals, is not so justifiable.

[Toy Soldier]

In other words, I think it's wrong to hate people for arbitrary reasons (being female, being black, being gay, being a migrant) but I don't really have a problem hating people - as individuals - for demonstrably being horrible ****s.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I guess it depends on your overall feelings towards "hatred", although I think hatred is too strong a word, and would rather go with disdain. In which case, it's (for me) perfectly justifiable to express disdain for people who choose to spit toxic, hateful and xenophobic bile over Internet comments sections. The position that immigrants should be allowed to drown / rounded up and shot with no concern at all for who they actually are as individuals, is not so justifiable.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In other words, I think it's wrong to hate people for arbitrary reasons (being female, being black, being gay, being a migrant) but I don't really have a problem hating people - as individuals - for demonstrably being horrible ****s.

..but it doesn't mean that it's actual 'hate' felt because it's 'hate' expressed on the internet, I agree with James about that, I think these are often more things said for reactions so more an 'attention' thing...the things said about migrants are extreme yes, but isn't likening people's comments to Nazi comments also an extreme...?...both extreme negatives....

...tbh I'm not really with my thoughts about this yet so mine is a 'reactionary' thing as well atm but do the migrants seeking refuge really care what is said, does it really effect them whether someone has empathy or whether someone has no tolerance because all that matters to them and will make a difference in their lives are actions and positive actions, whether they be temporary or long term ones...so surely this all just detracts from that..a positive type social experiment would be to see people giving them food/blankets or shelter or whatever...to see them 'humanized' again and to see the focus kept there and not on what people say...

..anyways, I'm going to go away and think about this...

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Livia

No I am not. Neither am I in favour of inflammatory language and wishes of horrendous death on people trying to get here.

You said it for me perfectly Livia.

There's a difference between being against mass immigration and then what these idiots are saying to try and stop it.

The DM comments section is awful but also funny at the same time because they think that a large chunk of the country agrees with this junk.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I guess it depends on your overall feelings towards "hatred", although I think hatred is too strong a word, and would rather go with disdain. In which case, it's (for me) perfectly justifiable to express disdain for people who choose to spit toxic, hateful and xenophobic bile over Internet comments sections. The position that immigrants should be allowed to drown / rounded up and shot with no concern at all for who they actually are as individuals, is not so justifiable.

True, this word 'hate' is banded about too easily I don't hate those who make those comments in the mail and other areas. It is a shock when you see them there in as much as the mail is seen as the 'average' paper read by 'average' people. It's the normalisation of such extremist language is what I feel is the creeping rot, nobody is shocked or even surprised that people in need would be castigated and vilified for doing nothing but attempting to survive. I'm not surprised in the slightest the term nazi is used regularly to describe these standpoints.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

True, this word 'hate' is banded about too easily I don't hate those who make those comments in the mail and other areas. It is a shock when you see them there in as much as the mail is seen as the 'average' paper read by 'average' people. It's the normalisation of such extremist language is what I feel is the creeping rot, nobody is shocked or even surprised that people in need would be castigated and vilified for doing nothing but attempting to survive. I'm not surprised in the slightest the term nazi is used regularly to describe these standpoints.

Yes, the thing is too, the German population at large did of course not have such actively extreme views as the actual Nazi generals and SS members physically carrying out the things that they did... The normal people would never have been able to actually go through with it... But it was the general mindset, and acceptance of such a mindset, that had crept in slowly (like rot, as you say) and allowed those things to happen.

Personally, I fully believe that these ARE the opinions that the DM would absolutely love to print. They know they can't get away with that, so they allow it to be present alongside their articles in the form of reader comments, as a form of deniability. "Opinions expressed in the comments are in no way representative of blah blah blah..."

It's not Facebook or Twitter or a forum like this one, it's a major news source (supposedly) and as such they have a responsibility not to publish extremism alongside their articles. I'm not one for censorship, if they want to introduce a forum for discussion of articles on the side that's fine, but it shouldn't be there almost as an appendix to the article itself. These comments should be moderated before they appear.

[LeatherTrumpet]

people dont like people taking the piss and i think whilst the bleeding hearts go "oh these poor people" most others think "hang on they are just a bunch of chancers"

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes, the thing is too, the German population at large did of course not have such actively extreme views as the actual Nazi generals and SS members physically carrying out the things that they did... The normal people would never have been able to actually go through with it... But it was the general mindset, and acceptance of such a mindset, that had crept in slowly (like rot, as you say) and allowed those things to happen.

Personally, I fully believe that these ARE the opinions that the DM would absolutely love to print. They know they can't get away with that, so they allow it to be present alongside their articles in the form of reader comments, as a form of deniability. "Opinions expressed in the comments are in no way representative of blah blah blah..."

It's not Facebook or Twitter or a forum like this one, it's a major news source (supposedly) and as such they have a responsibility not to publish extremism alongside their articles. I'm not one for censorship, if they want to introduce a forum for discussion of articles on the side that's fine, but it shouldn't be there almost as an appendix to the article itself. These comments should be moderated before they appear.

Hmm I feel this way too, I thought the comments were screened, you would've thought the mail wouldn't appreciate it's comments section cluttered with hate speech but seemingly it's fine :/

Personally I don't appreciate the 'bleeding heart' comments trawled out every time someone comments on the unsavory remarks either, it perpetuates the norming of the extremist view by attempting to make those opposed to them appear odd ... Is anyone who doesn't feel refugees/asylum seekers/migrants should be shot a bleeding heart or just an average rational person?

[Samuel.]

"Bleeding heart" is as meaningless of an expression as "sympathiser"

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Samuel.

"Bleeding heart" is as meaningless of an expression as "sympathiser"

No it isn't, it has a totally different connotation.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes, the thing is too, the German population at large did of course not have such actively extreme views as the actual Nazi generals and SS members physically carrying out the things that they did... The normal people would never have been able to actually go through with it... But it was the general mindset, and acceptance of such a mindset, that had crept in slowly (like rot, as you say) and allowed those things to happen.

Personally, I fully believe that these ARE the opinions that the DM would absolutely love to print. They know they can't get away with that, so they allow it to be present alongside their articles in the form of reader comments, as a form of deniability. "Opinions expressed in the comments are in no way representative of blah blah blah..."

It's not Facebook or Twitter or a forum like this one, it's a major news source (supposedly) and as such they have a responsibility not to publish extremism alongside their articles. I'm not one for censorship, if they want to introduce a forum for discussion of articles on the side that's fine, but it shouldn't be there almost as an appendix to the article itself. These comments should be moderated before they appear.

...see, comparing to the Nazis with the Jews just doesn't sit right with me and seems to potentially add 'hate on hate' ..I think it was less 'acceptancy' in Germany and more fear of reprisal if spoken up against what was known to be happening at the time because obviously it would be a 'death penalty' to do so and that has no similarity to the situation with migrants at all..


...with what LT said..?..yeah, obviously there are diverse opinions on the migrant situation atm but there again, no similarity with wartime Germany/Nazism or any thought of welllllllllllllllll, these 'chancer Jews'....

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Hmm I feel this way too, I thought the comments were screened, you would've thought the mail wouldn't appreciate it's comments section cluttered with hate speech but seemingly it's fine :/

Personally I don't appreciate the 'bleeding heart' comments trawled out every time someone comments on the unsavory remarks either, it perpetuates the norming of the extremist view by attempting to make those opposed to them appear odd ... Is anyone who doesn't feel refugees/asylum seekers/migrants should be shot a bleeding heart or just an average rational person?

I understand but its kind of the person or mp who can easily identify problems but offer no solutions

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...see, comparing to the Nazis with the Jews just doesn't sit right with me and seems to potentially add 'hate on hate' ..I think it was less 'acceptancy' in Germany and more fear of reprisal if spoken up against what was known to be happening at the time because obviously it would be a 'death penalty' to do so and that has no similarity to the situation with migrants at all..


...with what LT said..?..yeah, obviously there are diverse opinions on the migrant situation atm but there again, no similarity with wartime Germany/Nazism or any thought of welllllllllllllllll, these 'chancer Jews'....

no I agree the nazi comparison and the DM exercise is misguided

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

no I agree the nazi comparison and the DM exercise is misguided

..yeah this is what I'm dubious about, that it seems to be looking at something that's thought to be extreme by using another extremity...

[Ammi]

..and an equally negative one if negativity and mindsets are what seem to be the focus...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...see, comparing to the Nazis with the Jews just doesn't sit right with me and seems to potentially add 'hate on hate' ..I think it was less 'acceptancy' in Germany and more fear of reprisal if spoken up against what was known to be happening at the time because obviously it would be a 'death penalty' to do so and that has no similarity to the situation with migrants at all..


...with what LT said..?..yeah, obviously there are diverse opinions on the migrant situation atm but there again, no similarity with wartime Germany/Nazism or any thought of welllllllllllllllll, these 'chancer Jews'....

And you know this for certain, nobody is risking death by crossing due to a greater risk of certain death if they stay?
What is becoming increasingly apparent is the dehumanisation and the acceptance of such language and behaviours. Propaganda is a tool used now as it was then, could I see it leading to more extreme violence over time? Yes.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..and an equally negative one if negativity and mindsets are what seem to be the focus...

Far right groups are on the rise across Europe, it's not a negative mindset to acknowledge this.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Far right groups are on the rise across Europe, it's not a negative mindset to acknowledge this.

Like the rise of womens football

they have been saying that since the 70s

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Like the rise of womens football

they have been saying that since the 70s

Good comparison... it's taken 40yrs for some to appreciate it's a 'thing'?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Good comparison... it's taken 40yrs for some to appreciate it's a 'thing'?

i am more worried about the rise of womens football

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

i am more worried about the rise of womens football

Women in football! what's next, letting them in the golf club?....What?!!!!

[Kizzy]

Mind you if ( skeksis impersonator) British foreign secretary Phillip Hammond refers to them as 'marauding' it's not hard to see why those commenters feel justified in venting.