[Ammi]

..I thought that the whole conversation was one of the most interesting BB conversations..and so often we don't get that anymore in HL's/just all of the drama, conflict and argumenst etc..and then they gave him a warning/caution or whatever it was...just silly really...

[ConnieLingus]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

I didn't say that it makes Jemima racist but saying that you're not attracted to black guys and then immediately following that up by saying that mixed race is okay... like that's clearly ridiculously racially insensitive at minimum.

What's wrong with saying you don't find certain people attractive?

You are being ridiculously silly.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I thought that the whole conversation was one of the most interesting BB conversations..and so often we don't get that anymore in HL's/just all of the drama, conflict and argumenst etc..and then they gave him a warning/caution or whatever it was...just silly really...

I completely agree, i really enjoyed listening to the conversation, and i do get where Scoop was coming from, it was silly to remind him of the rules, because in all fairness he was just answering a question, we're going to get to the stage where everything is censored, i think perspective is needed.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Anyone else would have got warned for it so it's only fair that Scoop did.One rule for everybody.

1) he is black.
2) he was explaining exactly why it is okay for black people to use the word but not other people.

It's called reclaiming a word.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

1) he is black.
2) he was explaining exactly why it is okay for black people to use the word but not other people.

It's called reclaiming a word.

1. it makes no difference. As he was explaining, much has to do with the intention when using the word. Its actually quite ridiculous to say someone black can't be racist as there are many different sub categories within every race that can then be further targeted.

2. He was explaining why he used it. Doesn't stop it being racist, and his explanation backed up the fact that it was being used in a derogatory fashion.

3. That's what anyone who is racist would say, although I know that's not what you meant.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

1. it makes no difference. As he was explaining, much has to do with the intention when using the word. Its actually quite ridiculous to say someone black can't be racist as there are many different sub categories within every race that can then be further targeted.

2. He was explaining why he used it. Doesn't stop it being racist, and his explanation backed up the fact that it was being used in a derogatory fashion.

3. That's what anyone who is racist would say, although I know that's not what you meant.

1. it does make a difference. i agree a black person can be racist, but he clearly wasn't being racist when he used the word. he even said before he used the word out loud..."i'm going to use the word, because i am black", so he was warning people before he used it, to understand he was only using it in an appropriate way so that he could explain his feelings. he wasn't actually calling anyone specifically that word. he was talking about the word in a general sense.

2. it wasn't racist. he basically said the same thing that chris rock has said hundreds of times in his act, do you think chris rock is racist?

3. he's clearly not racist.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

1) he is black.
2) he was explaining exactly why it is okay for black people to use the word but not other people.

It's called reclaiming a word.

I don't care what colour he is.If it's a racist word then it's a racist word.Either everyone can use it or nobody can.BB can't start being selective about who obeys which rules.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by lostalex

1. it does make a difference. i agree a black person can be racist, but he clearly wasn't being racist when he used the word.

2. it wasn't racist. he basically said the same thing that chris rock has said hundreds of times in his act, do you think chris rock is racist?

3. he's clearly not racist.

I wouldn't necessarily say that he is racist, but I would say he was bigoted - don't get me wrong, he is actually a favourite of mine, but in explaining he was describing target groups that these things can apply to and why it was OK. That has undertones if one is being pedantic.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I wouldn't necessarily say that he is racist, but I would say he was bigoted - don't get me wrong, he is actually a favourite of mine, but in explaining he was describing target groups that these things can apply to and why it was OK. That has undertones if one is being pedantic.

he specifically said that the word could also be used to describe a group of people of any race, it was more about hating a low class group of ignorant people, he even said that low class white epople in a trailer park are basically "N-words" , he was trying to explain what the N-word means in certain contexts, sometimes it can be offensive when it is used to describe horrible low class ignorant people, whether white, or black or latino or whatever race....

but that also it can be used as an ironic and affctionate term between black people as a term of endearment.

the same way, some parents might call their children "little piggy" it sounds offense on the outside, and if you called a woman at work "little piggy" they would be horribly offended, but if it's used in an affectionate way in a family, it's not offensive.

[Northern Monkey]

Saying black people can say 'x' word but white people can't is discrimination based on colour in itself.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I don't care what colour he is.If it's a racist word then it's a racist word.Either everyone can use it or nobody can.BB can't start being selective about who obeys which rules.

I'm sorry, but stop being ignorant and listen to my point. This is why people don't bother explaining things to people like you.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Saying black people can say 'x' word but white people can't is discrimination based on colour in itself.

not really, because words exist in a context. the world is not a dictionary where all words are separate and exist on their own.

words exist in a context, and especially a word that has an emotionally value for black people means there is a different meaning when a black person uses it.

words do not exist in a vacuum the way that numbers do. language is about how words are used and what the intention of the speaker is, they are not all just individual entities the way numbers are. a number has a certain value, and nothing can change that single number's value. but words are meaningless without context, so context does matter.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by lostalex

he specifically said that the word could also be used to describe a group of people of any race, it was more about hating a low class group of ignorant people, he even said that low class white epople in a trailer park are basically "N-words" , he was trying to explain what the N-word means in certain contexts, sometimes it can be offensive when it is used to describe horrible low class ignorant people, whether white, or black or latino or whatever race....

but that also it can be used as an ironic and affctionate term between black people as a term of endearment.

the same way, some parents might call their children "little piggy" it sounds offense on the outside, and if you called a woman at work "little piggy" they would be horribly offended, but if it's used in an affectionate way in a family, it's not offensive.

As I said, its all in your usage and your intention behind it, he was saying that it can be a general purpose derogatory term.

With that many connotations behind the word, none of them good, there is no justification for using it.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

As I said, its all in your usage and your intention behind it, he was saying that it can be a general purpose derogatory term.

With that many connotations behind the word, none of them good, there is no justification for using it.

i agree there is no good reason to use it for an actual person, but i don't think the way he used it was against anyone or in a derogatory fashion. he didn't actually call anyone the N-word... he just said the N-word while he was talking about the n-word. and let's be honest, if i had used the actual N-word in this explanation, instead of saying "the n-word" would it make me a racist? no.

i really don't see why using the phrase "the n-word" is any less offensive than saying the word ******. as long as you aren't calling someone that.

[Gusto Brunt]

if they were so concerned, why didn't BB stop him after he said the word twice.

Why did they let him go on and on.

And on?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Gusto Brunt

if they were so concerned, why didn't BB stop him after he said the word twice.

Why did they let him go on and on.

And on?

they didn't even call him into the diary room until the next day, and this conversation was in the morning the day before, so it took them 24 hours to call him into the diary room. and it sounded like the producers didn't even really want to, i think they did it just to cover their butts for Ofcom.

you can tell when the producers are mad and upset with a housemate, and they clearly were not upset with him over it. and good for him for not making a big deal over the caution.

[Ammi]

..isn't that though why BB should not stifle and 'caution' these conversations...because it all gives us better understandings ..?...I always thought that because it's history of a white person using it of being derogatory and 'superior' then it's never acceptable for a white person to use it but by a black person using it to another black person as a term of 'buddy/friend/brother' etc...it was taking away any 'negative power' so therefore, reclaiming the word in a positive way..see, these things are things that need to be discussed really I think....

[Slevin]

i had no problem with it and i agree with others it was one of the more interesting real conversations recently. i also cant stand saying the n-word as well. as long as its not used in a malicious way. like relaying it back that someone was saying it without getting their panties in a bunch.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by ConnieLingus

What's wrong with saying you don't find certain people attractive?

You are being ridiculously silly.

Again, like I've been saying the truly worrying part to me was how she followed up "I'm not really attracted to black guys" with "well mixed race is okay," as if another race needs to be present to balance out the blackness. Whether or not you find that racist, it's definitely racially insensitive (as is boldly assuming that Gina should understand since she's probably only attracted to black guys.)

[Gusto Brunt]

Originally Posted by lostalex

they didn't even call him into the diary room until the next day, and this conversation was in the morning the day before, so it took them 24 hours to call him into the diary room. and it sounded like the producers didn't even really want to, i think they did it just to cover their butts for Ofcom.

you can tell when the producers are mad and upset with a housemate, and they clearly were not upset with him over it. and good for him for not making a big deal over the caution.

BB really is clueless.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..isn't that though why BB should not stifle and 'caution' these conversations...because it all gives us better understandings ..?...I always thought that because it's history of a white person using it of being derogatory and 'superior' then it's never acceptable for a white person to use it but by a black person using it to another black person as a term of 'buddy/friend/brother' etc...it was taking away any 'negative power' so therefore, reclaiming the word in a positive way..see, these things are things that need to be discussed really I think....

that's what i think too Ammi. well put.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by lostalex

not really, because words exist in a context. the world is not a dictionary where all words are separate and exist on their own.

words exist in a context, and especially a word that has an emotionally value for black people means there is a different meaning when a black person uses it.

words do not exist in a vacuum the way that numbers do. language is about how words are used and what the intention of the speaker is, they are not all just individual entities the way numbers are. a number has a certain value, and nothing can change that single number's value. but words are meaningless without context, so context does matter.

Very true.So when Ken Morley described a story in his past about when he jokingly called his friend(who happens to be black) Frank Bruno's music 'negro rythyms' the context there there was that there was no malicious intent to it,He was'nt using it as an insult to anybody and he was just retelling a story from his past and if i remember correctly he was warned for it just as Scoop was warned for using the other and arguabley slightly worse 'N' word.BB have to be consistent or viewers are gonna start calling BS on the rules and the show will suffer.

[Cherie]

I didn't see the need for a caution, they just jumped on it for controversy, Scoop said much the same thing people have been saying for years, and kudos to James for asking the questions many people ask

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I'm sorry, but stop being ignorant and listen to my point. This is why people don't bother explaining things to people like you.

People like me?

Not agreeing with your point is not ignorant,It is a difference of opinion.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Very true.So when Ken Morley described a story in his past about when he jokingly called his friend(who happens to be black) Frank Bruno's music 'negro rythyms' the context there there was that there was no malicious intent to it,He was'nt using it as an insult to anybody and he was just retelling a story from his past and if i remember correctly he was warned for it just as Scoop was warned for using the other and arguabley slightly worse 'N' word.BB have to be consistent or viewers are gonna start calling BS on the rules and the show will suffer.

well no it's not the same thing, because that person you are taking about was using it as a word to describe someone else. Scoop never used the word to describe another person, he was using the word to talk about the word itself in a general context.

Scoop didn't call anyone a ****** or a negro.... he used the word ****** because he was taking about the word ******, he wasn't calling another person a ******.