[the truth]

merkel is the biggest culprit...1) why is it acceptable to have 1 person lead Europe and her country at the same time? conflict of interests? duh
2) she is the one demanding open borders. now guess what happens>? armies of tens fo thosusands marching on countries. and how do we tell the illegal immigrants from the economic migrants from the refugees? when theyre charging down your door?
3) now why does merkel want open borders? hmmm because german population has fallen for a decade. whereas most other countries in Europe have grown, uk is up 3.7 million in 10 years? but now she looks like the good guy? she wants masses arriving to work the menial jobs, lower wages and pay for the old peoples pensions in time
4) merkel is the one who created the EU cartel closed shop to stop the Africans and middle east trading with us....she oversaw the raping of the African coasts..
5) she has made the EU utterly unaccountable , unaccounted for a decade, wasteful, overly burocratic, shes enslaved us even more to corporations and ruined small businesses across eurpe

nice one anjela

[the truth]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...gee_population
refugee intake across the globe

the figures in Jordan and Lebanon are staggering
Ireland brazil spain Russia japan the arab emirates, mexico, north korea, west indies are doing almost sod all to help


Rank

Country / Territory

Total population

Refugee population[1]

Natives per refugee


— World 7,268,400,000 10,395,553 699
1 Pakistan 182,490,722 2,600,000[2] 70
2 Jordan 6,316,001 2,485,650[3] 3
3 Syria 21,906,000 1,254,634[3] 17
4 Iran 74,196,000 996,468 74
5 Germany 82,046,000 571,685 144
6 Kenya 39,802,000 650,610 [4] 70
7 Lebanon 4,224,000 1,172,753 [5] 4
8 Chad 11,206,000 366,494 31
9 People's Republic of China[6] 1,373,680,000 301,018 4563
10 Ethiopia 79,221,000 288,844 274
11 United States 321,766,000 763 1215
12 Bangladesh 162,221,000 229,669 706
13 Yemen 23,580,000 214,740 110
14 France [7] 65,073,482 210,207 310
15 Venezuela 28,456,383 202,022 141
16 United Kingdom 61,634,599 193,510 319
17 India 1,261,040,000 185,118 6812
18 Canada 33,476,688 164,883 203
19 Dem. Rep. of Congo 66,020,000 152,749 432
20 Republic of the Congo 3,683,000 141,232 26
21 Uganda 32,710,000 139,448 235
22 Sudan 30,894,000 139,415 222
23 Tanzania 43,739,000 131,243 333
24 Liberia 3,476,608 128,293 70
25 Ecuador 14,036,775 123,436 114
26 South Sudan 8,260,490 105,023 79
27 Cameroon 19,522,000 100,373 194
28 Egypt 77,116,112 95,087 811
29 Algeria 34,895,000 94,148 371
30 Thailand 63,389,730 89,253 710
31 Malaysia 27,468,000 86,680 317
32 Sweden 9,292,359 86,615 107
33 Netherlands 16,535,207 74,598 222
34 Nepal 29,331,000 72,654 404
35 Serbia 9,850,000 70,707 139
36 Italy 60,088,880 58,060 1035
37 South Africa 49,320,000 57,899 852
38 Rwanda 9,998,000 55,325 181
39 Switzerland 7,739,100 50,416 154
40 Austria 8,355,260 47,073 177
41 Zambia 12,935,000 45,632 283
42 Israel [8] 7,434,000 41,235 180
43 Norway [9] 4,834,000 40,691 119
44 Burundi 8,303,000 35,659 233
45 Iraq 30,747,000 35,189 874
46 Mauritania 3,291,000 26,535 124
47 Côte d'Ivoire 21,075,000 24,221 870
48 Australia[10] 24,162,000 23,434 1031
49 Belgium 10,754,528 22,402 480
50 Senegal 12,534,000 20,644 607
51 Djibouti 864,000 20,340 42
52 Costa Rica 4,579,000 20,057 228
53 Togo 6,619,000 19,270 343
54 Panama 3,454,000 17,262 200
55 Central African Republic 4,422,000 16,730 264
56 Guinea 10,069,000 16,609 606
57 Angola 18,498,000 16,223 1140
58 Poland 38,100,700 15,847 2404
59 Mali 13,010,000 15,624 833
60 Turkey 71,517,100 1,633,560[11] 44
61 Ghana 23,837,000 13,588 1754
62 Denmark 5,519,441 13,399 412
63 Montenegro 620,029 12,874 48
64 Libya 6,420,000 10,130 634
65 Gambia 1,705,000 9,528 179
66 Papua New Guinea 6,732,000 9,377 718
67 Finland [12] 5,343,608 9,175 582
68 Nigeria 154,729,000 8,806 17571
69 Ireland 4,422,100 8,249 536
70 Sierra Leone 5,696,000 8,092 704
71 Guinea-Bissau 1,611,000 7,800 207
72 Benin 8,935,000 7,217 1238
73 Bosnia and Herzegovina 3,767,000 6,933 543
74 Malawi 15,263,000 6,308 2420
75 Kyrgyzstan 5,482,000 6,095 899
76 Namibia 2,171,000 6,049 359
77 Bulgaria 7,364,570 5,688 1295
78 Hungary 10,031,208 5,106 1965
79 Eritrea 5,073,000 4,719 1075
80 Zimbabwe 12,523,000 4,561 2746
81 Brazil 202,448,000 4,477 45220
82 Spain 45,929,476 4,228 1086
83 Tunisia 10,327,800 4,097 2521
84 Russia 141,498,000 3,914 36152
85 Cyprus [13] 801,600 3,503 229
86 Argentina 40,134,425 3,361 11941
87 Botswana 1,950,000 3,312 589
88 Ukraine 46,029,281 3,176 14493
89 Afghanistan 28,150,000 3,009 9355
90 Tajikistan 6,952,000 3,009 2310
91 Armenia 3,230,100 2,918 1107
92 Luxembourg 493,500 2,855 173
93 Japan 127,590,000 2,649 48165
94 Croatia 4,435,056 2,600 1706
95 Czech Republic 10,467,542 2,449 4274
96 Somalia 9,133,000 2,099 4351
97 New Zealand 4,430,400 1,933 2291
98 Gabon 1,475,000 1,773 832
99 Azerbaijan 8,629,900 1,730 4988
100 Mexico 107,550,697 1,677 64133
101 Chile 17,402,630 1,674 10396
102 Greece 11,257,285 1,573 7157
103 Peru 29,132,013 1,144 25465
104 Republic of Macedonia 2,048,620 1,130 1813
105 Indonesia 229,965,000 1,006 228593
106 Romania 19,042,936 1,005 18948
107 Vietnam 85,789,573 990 86656
108 Mozambique 22,894,000 824 27784
109 Lithuania 3,349,872 821 4080
110 Swaziland 1,185,000 759 1561
111 Morocco 31,567,613 736 42891
112 Bolivia 9,863,000 716 13775
113 United Arab Emirates 8,264,070 677 12207
114 Kazakhstan 15,776,492 616 25611
115 Saudi Arabia 25,721,000 599 42940
116 Belarus 9,671,900 595 16255
117 Dominican Republic 9,378,818 595 15763
118 Burkina Faso 15,757,000 546 28859
119 Slovakia 5,413,548 546 9915
120 Georgia [14] 4,385,400 462 9492
121 Portugal 10,627,250 408 26047
122 South Korea 48,333,000 401
(+27,518 North Korean refugees}[15] 120531
123 Cuba 11,204,000 384 29177
124 Kuwait 2,985,000 335 8910
125 Niger 15,290,000 302 50629
126 Colombia 45,064,807 219 205775
127 Uzbekistan 27,488,000 214 128449
128 Sri Lanka 20,238,000 188 107649
129 Uruguay 3,361,000 174 19316
130 Guatemala 14,027,000 147 95422
131 Moldova [16] 3,567,500 146 24435
132 Slovenia 2,045,249 142 14403
133 Philippines 92,222,660 125 737781
134 Paraguay 6,349,000 124 51202
135 Latvia 2,257,300 95 23761
136 Nicaragua 5,743,000 86 66779
137 Oman 2,845,000 83 34277
138 Albania 3,170,000 82 38659
139 Qatar 1,409,000 80 17613
140 Belize 322,100 78 4129
141 Cambodia 14,805,000 64 231328
142 Turkmenistan 5,110,000 59 86610
143 Iceland 319,246 58 5504
144 Estonia 1,340,415 50 26808
145 El Salvador 6,163,000 38 162184
146 Lesotho 2,067,000 34 60794
147 Bahamas 342,000 28 12214
148 Trinidad and Tobago 1,339,000 22 60864
149 Jamaica 2,719,000 20 135950
150 Honduras 7,466,000 17 439176
151 Madagascar 19,625,000 9 2180556
152 Fiji 849,000 7 121286
153 Guyana 762,000 7 108857
154 Mongolia 2,671,000 1 2671000
155 Myanmar (Burma) 50,020,000 unknown unknown
156 North Korea 24,051,706 unknown unknown
157 Taiwan[17] 23,069,345 unknown unknown
158 Haiti 10,033,000 unknown unknown
159 Hong Kong 7,008,900 unknown unknown
160 Laos 6,320,000 unknown unknown
161 Singapore 4,839,400 unknown unknown
162 Puerto Rico 3,982,000 unknown unknown
163 Mauritius [18]

[Livia]

Very interesting, truth.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by the truth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...gee_population
refugee intake across the globe

the figures in Jordan and Lebanon are staggering
Ireland brazil spain Russia japan the arab emirates, mexico, north korea, west indies are doing almost sod all to help


Rank

Country / Territory

Total population

Refugee population[1]

Natives per refugee


— World 7,268,400,000 10,395,553 699
1 Pakistan 182,490,722 2,600,000[2] 70
2 Jordan 6,316,001 2,485,650[3] 3
3 Syria 21,906,000 1,254,634[3] 17
4 Iran 74,196,000 996,468 74
5 Germany 82,046,000 571,685 144
6 Kenya 39,802,000 650,610 [4] 70
7 Lebanon 4,224,000 1,172,753 [5] 4
8 Chad 11,206,000 366,494 31
9 People's Republic of China[6] 1,373,680,000 301,018 4563
10 Ethiopia 79,221,000 288,844 274
11 United States 321,766,000 763 1215
12 Bangladesh 162,221,000 229,669 706
13 Yemen 23,580,000 214,740 110
14 France [7] 65,073,482 210,207 310
15 Venezuela 28,456,383 202,022 141
16 United Kingdom 61,634,599 193,510 319
17 India 1,261,040,000 185,118 6812
18 Canada 33,476,688 164,883 203
19 Dem. Rep. of Congo 66,020,000 152,749 432
20 Republic of the Congo 3,683,000 141,232 26
21 Uganda 32,710,000 139,448 235
22 Sudan 30,894,000 139,415 222
23 Tanzania 43,739,000 131,243 333
24 Liberia 3,476,608 128,293 70
25 Ecuador 14,036,775 123,436 114
26 South Sudan 8,260,490 105,023 79
27 Cameroon 19,522,000 100,373 194
28 Egypt 77,116,112 95,087 811
29 Algeria 34,895,000 94,148 371
30 Thailand 63,389,730 89,253 710
31 Malaysia 27,468,000 86,680 317
32 Sweden 9,292,359 86,615 107
33 Netherlands 16,535,207 74,598 222
34 Nepal 29,331,000 72,654 404
35 Serbia 9,850,000 70,707 139
36 Italy 60,088,880 58,060 1035
37 South Africa 49,320,000 57,899 852
38 Rwanda 9,998,000 55,325 181
39 Switzerland 7,739,100 50,416 154
40 Austria 8,355,260 47,073 177
41 Zambia 12,935,000 45,632 283
42 Israel [8] 7,434,000 41,235 180
43 Norway [9] 4,834,000 40,691 119
44 Burundi 8,303,000 35,659 233
45 Iraq 30,747,000 35,189 874
46 Mauritania 3,291,000 26,535 124
47 Côte d'Ivoire 21,075,000 24,221 870
48 Australia[10] 24,162,000 23,434 1031
49 Belgium 10,754,528 22,402 480
50 Senegal 12,534,000 20,644 607
51 Djibouti 864,000 20,340 42
52 Costa Rica 4,579,000 20,057 228
53 Togo 6,619,000 19,270 343
54 Panama 3,454,000 17,262 200
55 Central African Republic 4,422,000 16,730 264
56 Guinea 10,069,000 16,609 606
57 Angola 18,498,000 16,223 1140
58 Poland 38,100,700 15,847 2404
59 Mali 13,010,000 15,624 833
60 Turkey 71,517,100 1,633,560[11] 44
61 Ghana 23,837,000 13,588 1754
62 Denmark 5,519,441 13,399 412
63 Montenegro 620,029 12,874 48
64 Libya 6,420,000 10,130 634
65 Gambia 1,705,000 9,528 179
66 Papua New Guinea 6,732,000 9,377 718
67 Finland [12] 5,343,608 9,175 582
68 Nigeria 154,729,000 8,806 17571
69 Ireland 4,422,100 8,249 536
70 Sierra Leone 5,696,000 8,092 704
71 Guinea-Bissau 1,611,000 7,800 207
72 Benin 8,935,000 7,217 1238
73 Bosnia and Herzegovina 3,767,000 6,933 543
74 Malawi 15,263,000 6,308 2420
75 Kyrgyzstan 5,482,000 6,095 899
76 Namibia 2,171,000 6,049 359
77 Bulgaria 7,364,570 5,688 1295
78 Hungary 10,031,208 5,106 1965
79 Eritrea 5,073,000 4,719 1075
80 Zimbabwe 12,523,000 4,561 2746
81 Brazil 202,448,000 4,477 45220
82 Spain 45,929,476 4,228 1086
83 Tunisia 10,327,800 4,097 2521
84 Russia 141,498,000 3,914 36152
85 Cyprus [13] 801,600 3,503 229
86 Argentina 40,134,425 3,361 11941
87 Botswana 1,950,000 3,312 589
88 Ukraine 46,029,281 3,176 14493
89 Afghanistan 28,150,000 3,009 9355
90 Tajikistan 6,952,000 3,009 2310
91 Armenia 3,230,100 2,918 1107
92 Luxembourg 493,500 2,855 173
93 Japan 127,590,000 2,649 48165
94 Croatia 4,435,056 2,600 1706
95 Czech Republic 10,467,542 2,449 4274
96 Somalia 9,133,000 2,099 4351
97 New Zealand 4,430,400 1,933 2291
98 Gabon 1,475,000 1,773 832
99 Azerbaijan 8,629,900 1,730 4988
100 Mexico 107,550,697 1,677 64133
101 Chile 17,402,630 1,674 10396
102 Greece 11,257,285 1,573 7157
103 Peru 29,132,013 1,144 25465
104 Republic of Macedonia 2,048,620 1,130 1813
105 Indonesia 229,965,000 1,006 228593
106 Romania 19,042,936 1,005 18948
107 Vietnam 85,789,573 990 86656
108 Mozambique 22,894,000 824 27784
109 Lithuania 3,349,872 821 4080
110 Swaziland 1,185,000 759 1561
111 Morocco 31,567,613 736 42891
112 Bolivia 9,863,000 716 13775
113 United Arab Emirates 8,264,070 677 12207
114 Kazakhstan 15,776,492 616 25611
115 Saudi Arabia 25,721,000 599 42940
116 Belarus 9,671,900 595 16255
117 Dominican Republic 9,378,818 595 15763
118 Burkina Faso 15,757,000 546 28859
119 Slovakia 5,413,548 546 9915
120 Georgia [14] 4,385,400 462 9492
121 Portugal 10,627,250 408 26047
122 South Korea 48,333,000 401
(+27,518 North Korean refugees}[15] 120531
123 Cuba 11,204,000 384 29177
124 Kuwait 2,985,000 335 8910
125 Niger 15,290,000 302 50629
126 Colombia 45,064,807 219 205775
127 Uzbekistan 27,488,000 214 128449
128 Sri Lanka 20,238,000 188 107649
129 Uruguay 3,361,000 174 19316
130 Guatemala 14,027,000 147 95422
131 Moldova [16] 3,567,500 146 24435
132 Slovenia 2,045,249 142 14403
133 Philippines 92,222,660 125 737781
134 Paraguay 6,349,000 124 51202
135 Latvia 2,257,300 95 23761
136 Nicaragua 5,743,000 86 66779
137 Oman 2,845,000 83 34277
138 Albania 3,170,000 82 38659
139 Qatar 1,409,000 80 17613
140 Belize 322,100 78 4129
141 Cambodia 14,805,000 64 231328
142 Turkmenistan 5,110,000 59 86610
143 Iceland 319,246 58 5504
144 Estonia 1,340,415 50 26808
145 El Salvador 6,163,000 38 162184
146 Lesotho 2,067,000 34 60794
147 Bahamas 342,000 28 12214
148 Trinidad and Tobago 1,339,000 22 60864
149 Jamaica 2,719,000 20 135950
150 Honduras 7,466,000 17 439176
151 Madagascar 19,625,000 9 2180556
152 Fiji 849,000 7 121286
153 Guyana 762,000 7 108857
154 Mongolia 2,671,000 1 2671000
155 Myanmar (Burma) 50,020,000 unknown unknown
156 North Korea 24,051,706 unknown unknown
157 Taiwan[17] 23,069,345 unknown unknown
158 Haiti 10,033,000 unknown unknown
159 Hong Kong 7,008,900 unknown unknown
160 Laos 6,320,000 unknown unknown
161 Singapore 4,839,400 unknown unknown
162 Puerto Rico 3,982,000 unknown unknown
163 Mauritius [18]

Makes utter nonsense of some claims on here eh Truth?

As I said - Statistics NOT hysterics.

[Ninastar]

saw this on FB and I pretty much agree with it.

"The current migration crisis is so complicated at the moment that it is important to look at a range of points. It is a FACT that countries like Syria are war torn and currently inhabitable for the civilians. They are in the right to consider moving to another country for a better life. The problem is that an asylum seeker is meant to reside in the first safe country they visit. They in theory should have no reason to go West. However the starting countries like Greece and Turkey are ill equipped to deal with the sheer number of migrants arriving on their doorstep and therefore draws them to the more prosperous countries like Germany and the UK.

It is a FACT that our country is already being stretched economically by government cuts etc but we can deal with the crisis better than other countries. We should do whatever we can to help the genuine suffers of the crisis.

It is a FACT that some yes only want to come to the UK for benefits etc but an increasing number of migrants are in need of a better life. What the world actually NEEDS to do right now is to bring military action to Syria and eradicate ISIS and cease the holocaust like conditions Assad is using on its own people. This way the migrants would have NO reason to travel West. If we don't act fast it may led to more tragedies in the future."

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Chaos

saw this on FB and I pretty much agree with it.

"The current migration crisis is so complicated at the moment that it is important to look at a range of points. It is a FACT that countries like Syria are war torn and currently inhabitable for the civilians. They are in the right to consider moving to another country for a better life. The problem is that an asylum seeker is meant to reside in the first safe country they visit. They in theory should have no reason to go West. However the starting countries like Greece and Turkey are ill equipped to deal with the sheer number of migrants arriving on their doorstep and therefore draws them to the more prosperous countries like Germany and the UK.

It is a FACT that our country is already being stretched economically by government cuts etc but we can deal with the crisis better than other countries. We should do whatever we can to help the genuine suffers of the crisis.

It is a FACT that some yes only want to come to the UK for benefits etc but an increasing number of migrants are in need of a better life. What the world actually NEEDS to do right now is to bring military action to Syria and eradicate ISIS and cease the holocaust like conditions Assad is using on its own people. This way the migrants would have NO reason to travel West. If we don't act fast it may led to more tragedies in the future."

While I agree with the last paragraph in theory, in practice it's not so easy. Last time we interfered in the Middle East we basically set it up so IS gained real power. It's not so much an issue of removing IS and Assad and any other dictator from power, it's setting up a stable government afterwards that won't be swept aside with ease by terrorists. That's the hard part.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

While I agree with the last paragraph in theory, in practice it's not so easy. Last time we interfered in the Middle East we basically set it up so IS gained real power. It's not so much an issue of removing IS and Assad and any other dictator from power, it's setting up a stable government afterwards that won't be swept aside with ease by terrorists. That's the hard part.

Thats why I personally believe we need to keep people there for as long as it will take. Even if we need to supervise for 50 years, it's better than having a war, ending it, people leaving, the tyrants getting strong again, war again etc etc. We need to keep people out there. Whether its armies, military bases, CIA etc etc, we have to keep it supervised.

[Kizzy]

Ah cite a wiki page and if it suits your agenda it's the truth?
Saying people are scared and that's why they're angry doesn't cut it for me sorry it's just an island mentality mixed with good old colonialist bigotry, time to stop dressing it up.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

While I agree with the last paragraph in theory, in practice it's not so easy. Last time we interfered in the Middle East we basically set it up so IS gained real power. It's not so much an issue of removing IS and Assad and any other dictator from power, it's setting up a stable government afterwards that won't be swept aside with ease by terrorists. That's the hard part.

Ideally this should be the job of the UN. But while the UNHCR does its best, the rest of the organisation is chaotic and impotent.

[the truth]

the most charitable nations in the world PER HEAD are aussie and new Zealand, uk are 11th, usa are 9th and Russia are 143rd , china 151st

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

Ideally this should be the job of the UN. But while the UNHCR does its best, the rest of the organisation is chaotic and impotent.

If the UN did it, it still wouldn't be fair because some nations contribute far more to the UN than others...

[Toy Soldier]

What about this for a good deal; every country in the world agrees to completely write off Greece's debt, no questions asked. We also all agree to give them money every year, a few billion each for the more prosperous countries, scaling down for ones with less money, but overall amounting to hundreds of billions per year.

In return, they take in the refugees, create towns and villages for them, etc...

Win win?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What about this for a good deal; every country in the world agrees to completely write off Greece's debt, no questions asked. We also all agree to give them money every year, a few billion each for the more prosperous countries, scaling down for ones with less money, but overall amounting to hundreds of billions per year.

In return, they take in the refugees, create towns and villages for them, etc...

Win win?

...hmm, I don't know really because some may be going to specific countries or trying to because they have relatives there already..?..plus it feels a bit like they're being 'herded up' in one place...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...hmm, I don't know really because some may be going to specific countries or trying to because they have relatives there already..?..plus it feels a bit like they're being 'herded up' in one place...

But if we're playing devil's advocate and accepting that free movement for all people globally is impossible, and that refugees should settle in the first place that they are physically safe (until, hopefully, their country is restored and they can return home) then it makes sense to create a situation where one of those countries can comfortably take in all of those people, and where it may even be beneficial to them. With the condition that they can create accommodation and facilities for those people rather than just tents and shanty towns.

From there, those with family elsewhere in the world could go through the proper channels to apply for asylum in the country that their family is in... But in the meantime, they are safe and comfortable and not fearing for their or their families lives.

Greece would have to be insane to turn down such a deal at this point.

I'm not saying it's a realistic deal, it would obviously never happen,

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But if we're playing devil's advocate and accepting that free movement for all people globally is impossible, and that refugees should settle in the first place that they are physically safe (until, hopefully, their country is restored and they can return home) then it makes sense to create a situation where one of those countries can comfortably take in all of those people, and where it may even be beneficial to them. With the condition that they can create accommodation and facilities for those people rather than just tents and shanty towns.

From there, those with family elsewhere in the world could go through the proper channels to apply for asylum in the country that their family is in... But in the meantime, they are safe and comfortable and not fearing for their or their families lives.

Greece would have to be insane to turn down such a deal at this point.

I'm not saying it's a realistic deal, it would obviously never happen,

..you would probably have a better understanding of how these things could be worked out in terms of writing off the debt and added funding as I would have... but surely in homes to be built for so many migrants, jobs for them so a huge increase in new industry to be funded and also ensuring the Greek nationals have jobs as well so all would be fair etc...in what it would cost, then wouldn't all countries taking in themselves cost less and keep Greece's debt as a separate issue..?..there again, the time it would all take to work out to even a point to be agreed let alone implement is not going to solve anything for now and now is when help is needed, which is why it's a crisis...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..you would probably have a better understanding of how these things could be worked out in terms of writing off the debt and added funding as I would have... but surely in homes to be built for so many migrants, jobs for them so a huge increase in new industry to be funded and also ensuring the Greek nationals have jobs as well so all would be fair etc...in what it would cost, then wouldn't all countries taking in themselves cost less and keep Greece's debt as a separate issue..?..there again, the time it would all take to work out to even a point to be agreed let alone implement is not going to solve anything for now and now is when help is needed, which is why it's a crisis...

Yes it would cost less to allow the refugees to spread out, but in my opinion, the problem lies in (cynicism alert!) the fact that no one actually wants them. It's not actually about money, that's just the excuse. I fully believe that the British government and British people would happily pay more to keep them out of the country than they would to provide for them here... The fact is, people just don't want them "in their country, setting up tent in their back yard". Greece, on the other hand, has huge financial problems and so there would be a massive incentive to be subsidised to take them all in.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What about this for a good deal; every country in the world agrees to completely write off Greece's debt, no questions asked. We also all agree to give them money every year, a few billion each for the more prosperous countries, scaling down for ones with less money, but overall amounting to hundreds of billions per year.

In return, they take in the refugees, create towns and villages for them, etc...

Win win?

I actually think this is a brilliant idea.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes it would cost less to allow the refugees to spread out, but in my opinion, the problem lies in (cynicism alert!) the fact that no one actually wants them. It's not actually about money, that's just the excuse. I fully believe that the British government and British people would happily pay more to keep them out of the country than they would to provide for them here... The fact is, people just don't want them "in their country, setting up tent in their back yard". Greece, on the other hand, has huge financial problems and so there would be a massive incentive to be subsidised to take them all in.

..some people my not but some people are frustrated that it's all got to this point and do want them in the country..but with the people who may not want them, I do think their reasoning should be considered/respected as well because it does have good validity...

[Kizzy]

Look at the attitudinal shift from Germany to the UK on the refugee crisis, there they are welcomed as they escape the fighting...here it's 'oh here they are for benefits' it's embarrassing and depressing how ignorant we seem on the issue.
The conservative response is standard; misinformation, blatantly ignoring the issue until it gets too big then heavy handed tactics.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Look at the attitudinal shift from Germany to the UK on the refugee crisis, there they are welcomed as they escape the fighting...here it's 'oh here they are for benefits' it's embarrassing and depressing how ignorant we seem on the issue.
The conservative response is standard; misinformation, blatantly ignoring the issue until it gets too big then heavy handed tactics.

MY aversion to letting these illegals - note illegals NOT genuine 'Refugees' - into this, already tiny, overpopulated, economically stretched island (and I'm sure that of others who oppose them) is purely down to the fact that the GREATER majority of them ARE opportunist, fit young men USING the current troubles as an excuse to gain entry into the UK.

NO ONE - on here, or anywhere else - is going to convince me that the above is NOT the true Status Quo.

If the situation in their native countries IS so untenable and dangerous for them to remain - how then is it that their mothers and sisters and grandmothers ALL continue living there?

I have seen and heard some of these young men freely talk on various documentaries about their families back home and even twice watched as two of them telephoned their mothers back home and had long normal conversations with them - and PLEASE don't harp on with the ridiculous claim that such program content is 'Media Manipulation' driven by bias against immigrants. What did the TV production companies do - hold a gun against these two 'refugees' heads and FORCE them to FAKE the phone conversations?.

Another 'would be' illegal immigrant on the program 'Breaking Into Britain' freely boasted that if the French Police entered the building they were all squatting in that; "They would be KILLED".

Stop these parasites entering and jail the Boat Skippers, Lorry Drivers and Masterminds behind illegally importing these opportunists for LIFE (or better still SHOOT the bastards) - then we can afford to give greater help to GENUINE refugees and welcome them in to the UK.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What about this for a good deal; every country in the world agrees to completely write off Greece's debt, no questions asked. We also all agree to give them money every year, a few billion each for the more prosperous countries, scaling down for ones with less money, but overall amounting to hundreds of billions per year.

In return, they take in the refugees, create towns and villages for them, etc...

Win win?

or how about we just write off all countries debt, and anyone who ever trusted anyone enough to lend someone else money, can just go **** themselves. hey, lets just cancel all debts everywhere. not just countries, but al states, all cities, and all PEOPLE..

Let's just pretend like money never existed, and money means nothing and anyone that gave anything to anyone else, can just go **** themselves!

That sounds like a great idea. that way, no one ever helps anyone ever again, because when you give something to someone else and they promise to pay you back, we'll all just know that they will never pay it back and we can all just get screwed out of our money! Yay!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

MY aversion to letting these illegals - note illegals NOT genuine 'Refugees' - into this, already tiny, overpopulated, economically stretched island (and I'm sure that of others who oppose them) is purely down to the fact that the GREATER majority of them ARE opportunist, fit young men USING the current troubles as an excuse to gain entry into the UK.

NO ONE - on here, or anywhere else - is going to convince me that the above is NOT the true Status Quo.

If the situation in their native countries IS so untenable and dangerous for them to remain - how then is it that their mothers and sisters and grandmothers ALL continue living there?

I have seen and heard some of these young men freely talk on various documentaries about their families back home and even twice watched as two of them telephoned their mothers back home and had long normal conversations with them - and PLEASE don't harp on with the ridiculous claim that such program content is 'Media Manipulation' driven by bias against immigrants. What did the TV production companies do - hold a gun against these two 'refugees' heads and FORCE them to FAKE the phone conversations?.

Another 'would be' illegal immigrant on the program 'Breaking Into Britain' freely boasted that if the French Police entered the building they were all squatting in that; "They would be KILLED".

Stop these parasites entering and jail the Boat Skippers, Lorry Drivers and Masterminds behind illegally importing these opportunists for LIFE (or better still SHOOT the bastards) - then we can afford to give greater help to GENUINE refugees and welcome them in to the UK.

Then our tiny overpopulated island should not be dropping bombs anywhere if we cannot give aid to those innocents displaced.
I see your aversion to the term refugee and it does appear to be a rather blinkered view due to the magnitude of conflict in the world at present.
Your shoot first ask questions later attitude does not surprise me at all, it appears to be endemic due to the confusing mish mash of information we have to decipher.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Then our tiny overpopulated island should not be dropping bombs anywhere if we cannot give aid to those innocents displaced.
I see your aversion to the term refugee and it does appear to be a rather blinkered view due to the magnitude of conflict in the world at present.
Your shoot first ask questions later attitude does not surprise me at all, it appears to be endemic due to the confusing mish mash of information we have to decipher.

But no one is against giving aid to displaced innocents' - only 'opportunists' who voluntarily leave their countries and travel 'Westward Ho' in search of 'La Dolce Vita' - and surely, it is not only naive to claim that these countries were completely stable 'paradises' even before our involvement, but also the degree of culpability that we have for the current 'Status Quo' is highly contentious. .

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by lostalex

or how about we just write off all countries debt, and anyone who ever trusted anyone enough to lend someone else money, can just go **** themselves. hey, lets just cancel all debts everywhere. not just countries, but al states, all cities, and all PEOPLE..

Let's just pretend like money never existed, and money means nothing and anyone that gave anything to anyone else, can just go **** themselves!

That sounds like a great idea. that way, no one ever helps anyone ever again, because when you give something to someone else and they promise to pay you back, we'll all just know that they will never pay it back and we can all just get screwed out of our money! Yay!

Writing off their debt would be in return for providing something though... It would basically be payment, not a handout. Currently, taking in refugees simply isn't an attractive prospect for any country. By incentivesing a safe country close to the problem zone to not only take in refugees, but to provide them with a good quality of life, it would surely lessen the problem?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Writing off their debt would be in return for providing something though... It would basically be payment, not a handout. Currently, taking in refugees simply isn't an attractive prospect for any country. By incentivesing a safe country close to the problem zone to not only take in refugees, but to provide them with a good quality of life, it would surely lessen the problem?

Russia? 17 million square miles twice the size of any other country and 70 times the size of the uk and 860 times the size of wales who have offered to take more refugees than russia