[Kizzy]

'Previously unseen documents that implicate former prime minister Edward Heath in a concerted attempt to influence the jury in one of the most controversial prosecutions of trade unionists in British history will be revealed to parliament this week.

It is understood that a dossier of newly unearthed papers suggests that some of the most senior members of Heath’s 1972 Conservative cabinet and members of the security services commissioned and promoted an ITV documentary entitled Red Under the Bed that was screened on the day the jury went out to consider the case against the “Shrewsbury 24”. One of the previously unseen files shows that Heath, on seeing a transcript of the film ahead of the trade unionists’ conviction, informed the cabinet secretary: “We want as much as possible of this.'

I have always had a sneaky suspicion this went on, with the rise of the demonisation of different subgroups and the prevalence of poverty porn... I think it's a concerted effort to use TV programming to influence the electorate on a socio-political level.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...strike-pickets

[arista]

“We want as much as possible of this.”


Of course
they were in a fight with the left

[Kizzy]

They wanted to create 'folk devils' and to demonise whole sub sections of society as they are doing today.
Government procured programming stuffed with government funded and sourced facts and statistics...

[bots]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

They wanted to create 'folk devils' and to demonise whole sub sections of society as they are doing today.
Government procured programming stuffed with government funded and sourced facts and statistics...

yes, i'm sure it does happen, however, equally, programs are commissioned by anti government/anti society/other pressure groups to further their causes. If no alternative other than government propaganda was permitted it would be a problem, but we have a "free" media so its up to the viewer/reader to make their own sense of it.

[kirklancaster]

It is not just the so called 'Right Wing' who are guilty of the practice of using covert propaganda for the purposes of influencing others. ALL political parties do it and ALL governments have done it.

Heath was one of the most corrupt bastards who ever walked this Earth and it is no coincidence that it was he who conned us into joining the corrupt EU for HIS and HIS CLASS's immense benefit at the cost to the so called 'working and non-working classes'.

The EU is THE greatest example of legalised 'Money Laundering' there is; 'From EACH regardless of his means or NEED, to THOSE regardless of their wealth and GREED'.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

yes, i'm sure it does happen, however, equally, programs are commissioned by anti government/anti society/other pressure groups to further their causes. If no alternative other than government propaganda was permitted it would be a problem, but we have a "free" media so its up to the viewer/reader to make their own sense of it.

Are there any examples of these anti-government/ pressure group commissioned productions?
I would consider the example in the OP to be anti-society to be fair, not sure how else I would describe it pitting people against one another.
It is not ethical for governments to be unduly influencing the electorate especially when it involves manipulating thinking on legal matters and /or individual cases.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

It is not just the so called 'Right Wing' who are guilty of the practice of using covert propaganda for the purposes of influencing others. ALL political parties do it and ALL governments have done it.

Heath was one of the most corrupt bastards who ever walked this Earth and it is no coincidence that it was he who conned us into joining the corrupt EU for HIS and HIS CLASS's immense benefit at the cost to the so called 'working and non-working classes'.

The EU is THE greatest example of legalised 'Money Laundering' there is; 'From EACH regardless of his means or NEED, to THOSE regardless of their wealth and GREED'.

Nobody mentioned the 'right wing'

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

Nobody mentioned the 'right wing'

Oh sorry. I thought Heath was a Tory Prime Minister, I didn't realise he and his party which you refer to were left wing.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Oh sorry. I thought Heath was a Tory Prime Minister, I didn't realise he and his party which you refer to were left wing.

Well actually thinking on that from all I have read and learned from others, in comparison to the lady who took over from him and then this lot we have had for over 5 years now, he probably would come more across as left wing than right.
No way was he or the govt he led in any way as vicious and heartless as this lot are for sure.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well actually thinking on that from all I have read and learned from others, in comparison to the lady who took over from him and then this lot we have had for over 5 years now, he probably would come more across as left wing than right.
No way was he or the govt he led in any way as vicious and heartless as this lot are for sure.

I will give you that Joey.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Oh sorry. I thought Heath was a Tory Prime Minister, I didn't realise he and his party which you refer to were left wing.

The party is irrelevant.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

The party is irrelevant.

OK I believe you.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

OK I believe you.

Do you have an opinion on the OP?

[DemolitionRed]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...bury-24-strike
And so the impression of an organised conspiracy was created. The reality couldn't have been further from this picture. I was held in solitary confinement as I refused to work or wear clothes. The prison governor, a former bricklayer who retired from the trade after developing arthritis in his hands, took pity and handed me a copy of Robert Tressell's The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists – a book that remains the building worker's bible.

I've just finished reading that book for the second time.

[DemolitionRed]

Those guys were treated appallingly and it was clearly a set up.

For all their sake, at least the ones who are still alive, I hope they receive some sort of justice.

[smudgie]

As I recall, it was like an all out war between unions and Ted Heath's government
Unions were more aggressive then as well, different world I suppose.
Thankfully it's all a bit more balanced now.

[bots]

As Smudgie says, things were much different then. We complain now, but the country literally was on its knees at that point.

MP's and even more so the Prime Minister were held in incredibly high regard and had tremendous unspoken/unseen influence on all those around them.

While its useful from an historical perspective to ensure the same things don't happen again, it literally is a completely different world now.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by NanaChristmas

As I recall, it was like an all out war between unions and Ted Heath's government
Unions were more aggressive then as well, different world I suppose.
Thankfully it's all a bit more balanced now.

Different world how...Did that justify this illegal practice?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

As Smudgie says, things were much different then. We complain now, but the country literally was on its knees at that point.

MP's and even more so the Prime Minister were held in incredibly high regard and had tremendous unspoken/unseen influence on all those around them.

While its useful from an historical perspective to ensure the same things don't happen again, it literally is a completely different world now.

We had the same democratic system then as now, you forget, they work for us.
They have to be held accountable nobody is untouchable are they?

[bots]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

We had the same democratic system then as now, you forget, they work for us.
They have to be held accountable nobody is untouchable are they?

in those days they were untouchable and it was an accepted fact,, that's what i mean, it is a completely different world now

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

in those days they were untouchable and it was an accepted fact,, that's what i mean, it is a completely different world now

That's just not true, it was never acceptable to nobble juries that's why the whole thing was covered up for so long :/

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

Different world how...Did that justify this illegal practice?

Not sure exactly which part of it is illegal practice.
The making of the programme?
The showing of the programme?
The timing of the programme?
It may come across as rather underhand, but as I have said, it was a totally different world then.
Union men would call a ruddy strike and down tools if the gravy was cold.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by NanaChristmas

Not sure exactly which part of it is illegal practice.
The making of the programme?
The showing of the programme?
The timing of the programme?
It may come across as rather underhand, but as I have said, it was a totally different world then.
Union men would call a ruddy strike and down tools if the gravy was cold.

All three were used to influence the jury in a trial.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...bury-24-strike
And so the impression of an organised conspiracy was created. The reality couldn't have been further from this picture. I was held in solitary confinement as I refused to work or wear clothes. The prison governor, a former bricklayer who retired from the trade after developing arthritis in his hands, took pity and handed me a copy of Robert Tressell's The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists – a book that remains the building worker's bible.

I've just finished reading that book for the second time.

Excellent book! should be on everyones Christmas list.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

Excellent book! should be on everyones Christmas list.

Have you read it ? Or do you own a copy?