[Jamie89]

Only just watched it and wanted to post my opinions on the whole Angie/Tiffany thing...

Tiffany's reaction:
I totally get why she reacted the way she did. People have different reactions to situations like that, and I don't think she should be judged too harshly for it. With the whole "she said Gest", "no she didn't", "Tiffany's a liar" stuff, I think it's irrelevent what was said. It was a highly stressful situation, and she clearly wasn't thinking straight so people should give her a break imo.
And all her laughing etc, and her aggression towards Angie, obviously it didn't look good and it wasn't the 'right' way to handle it, but it was her way of dealing with what she found to be a traumatic situation (she was visibly shaking when she was sat in the diary room). It's easy for anyone to say she should have reacted differently but in the heat of the moment we all make mistakes, and she did try to rectify it when she approached Angie after she had calmed down.

Johns attack:
IMO, he used the situation as an excuse to attack Tiffany. He jumped straight in to say that she needs to go, there was no need for it, and it was disappointing to see everyone else follow his lead.
The way he spoke to her in the bathroom was disgraceful. I felt like he was revelling in her ostracisation. And Gemma repeating what he was saying, like a parrot, has sent her way down in my estimations.

Racism:
Whilst there may have been undertones of it (eg. the 'chicken' comment - depending on how it was intended) it wasn't explicit enough for anyone to really know if it was racism. And I don't think Tiffany being black should be used as an excuse for the racism card to be rolled out. I think there should be evidence of it otherwise it undermines actual racism. Yes, BB has a bad history re racism, but each situation judged on it's own merits etc.

Resolution:
Christopher instigated building the bridges, so good for him It's a shame he wasn't strong enough to stand up to John, when John poisoned Chris's attempts (but that's just Chris's personality, I don't blame him for it). John's "she's had enough air time today" comment, I thought summed up why he behaved the way he did in this episode. And I think he tried to use Angie's (AND Tiffany's) grief for his own ends, at the expense of actually resolving the situation.
As much as Gemma disappointed me earlier in the ep, I thought the convo between her and Tiffany at the end was really sweet. I couldn't help but feel sad for Tiffany when Kristina shot her down re her helping with the dishes


Also, I totally understand why a lot of people found the misunderstanding funny (seen some comments along those lines) but personally I found the whole thing quite upsetting. (Not judging anyone lol, that's just how I felt watching it.)


(Side note - I'm sad to see Jonathan go, he could have been a great HM )

[Babayaro.]

Well said

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Only just watched it and wanted to post my opinions on the whole Angie/Tiffany thing...

Tiffany's reaction:
I totally get why she reacted the way she did. People have different reactions to situations like that, and I don't think she should be judged too harshly for it. With the whole "she said Gest", "no she didn't", "Tiffany's a liar" stuff, I think it's irrelevent what was said. It was a highly stressful situation, and she clearly wasn't thinking straight so people should give her a break imo.
And all her laughing etc, and her aggression towards Angie, obviously it didn't look good and it wasn't the 'right' way to handle it, but it was her way of dealing with what she found to be a traumatic situation (she was visibly shaking when she was sat in the diary room). It's easy for anyone to say she should have reacted differently but in the heat of the moment we all make mistakes, and she did try to rectify it when she approached Angie after she had calmed down.

Johns attack:
IMO, he used the situation as an excuse to attack Tiffany. He jumped straight in to say that she needs to go, there was no need for it, and it was disappointing to see everyone else follow his lead.
The way he spoke to her in the bathroom was disgraceful. I felt like he was revelling in her ostracisation. And Gemma repeating what he was saying, like a parrot, has sent her way down in my estimations.

Racism:
Whilst there may have been undertones of it (eg. the 'chicken' comment - depending on how it was intended) it wasn't explicit enough for anyone to really know if it was racism. And I don't think Tiffany being black should be used as an excuse for the racism card to be rolled out. I think there should be evidence of it otherwise it undermines actual racism. Yes, BB has a bad history re racism, but each situation judged on it's own merits etc.

Resolution:
Christopher instigated building the bridges, so good for him It's a shame he wasn't strong enough to stand up to John, when John poisoned Chris's attempts (but that's just Chris's personality, I don't blame him for it). John's "she's had enough air time today" comment, I thought summed up why he behaved the way he did in this episode. And I think he tried to use Angie's (AND Tiffany's) grief for his own ends, at the expense of actually resolving the situation.
As much as Gemma disappointed me earlier in the ep, I thought the convo between her and Tiffany at the end was really sweet. I couldn't help but feel sad for Tiffany when Kristina shot her down re her helping with the dishes


Also, I totally understand why a lot of people found the misunderstanding funny (seen some comments along those lines) but personally I found the whole thing quite upsetting. (Not judging anyone lol, that's just how I felt watching it.)


(Side note - I'm sad to see Jonathan go, he could have been a great HM )

..Jamie, you are 89 times wonderful.....

....my thoughts are similar on most of it..(I'm only saying most because the 'chicken'/racism thing is something that I haven't seen so don't know really..)...yes, the laughing would have appeared very disrespectful and I think, contributed a lot to some of the housemates really feeling she was being awful, but I think from what we've seen of Tiffany so far, she doesn't exactly have 'moderate' emotions and I think that came from the tenseness and stress of the whole situation and events...some people can laugh at funerals for instance, it's not something they mean to do and isn't our of disrespect, it's just the way their emotions project in certain situations....

[Crimson Dynamo]

or Tiffany could have said "what? are you sure" and went and looked at David like a normal person..

[Stormy]

I agree 100%.

I don't understand how some people can excuse Angie for starting the whole mess because she was grieving/upset...but yet give absolutely no quarter to Tifffany who reacted badly because she was also extremely upset and emotional too.

Both ladies made a mistake. Both ladies reacted badly. Both ladies deserve a pass and a big hug.

I'm trying to understand John's motive in attacking Tiffany. (The rest of the house are just sheep IMO and would have followed whatever view John took about the situation). John's go at Tiffany seemed a bit over the top to me. He must have some underlying dislike for her and this situation gave him the chance to tap into it.

[Stormy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

or Tiffany could have said "what? are you sure" and went and looked at David like a normal person..

That's easy to say when you are watching from outside the house and can rationally evaluate the situation because you are not emotionally invested and are fully aware of the facts.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Stormy

I agree 100%.

I don't understand how some people can excuse Angie for starting the whole mess because she was grieving/upset...but yet give absolutely no quarter to Tifffany who reacted badly because she was also extremely upset and emotional too.

Both ladies made a mistake. Both ladies reacted badly. Both ladies deserve a pass and a big hug.

I'm trying to understand John's motive in attacking Tiffany. (The rest of the house are just sheep IMO and would have followed whatever view John took about the situation). John's go at Tiffany seemed a bit over the top to me. He must have some underlying dislike for her and this situation gave him the chance to tap into it.

..I kept thinking, where are David and John who can explain the misunderstanding straight away and yeah, give them both a hug/calm the situation but obviously David was dead at that time and John didn't seem to be there at first to say something, I don't think ...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Stormy

That's easy to say when you are watching from outside the house and can rationally evaluate the situation because you are not emotionally invested and are fully aware of the facts.

No that is what Everyone did bar Tiffany

[Fosse]

Tiffany is a nutjob who clearly is on shaky ground mentally...I feel it would be better if she left.

It is to be hoped that she gets ejected presently.

[Stormy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

No that is what Everyone did bar Tiffany

Not quite true...they all panicked and ran to the bedroom thinking he was dead.

When they found out that he wasn't...the whole house was panicked and in a state of confusion as to why Angie would do something like that. Angie had run into the diary room or they would have all gone after her and confronted her. Believe me, they way they were all reacting, it would not have been nice.

It wasn't until John came out of the shower and tried to explain it to them in his weird, cryptic way that things began to calm down.

Tiffany just needed some sympathy and a hug...but she was getting attacked instead...she must have felt cornered and lashed back. She reacted badly but it did not deserve all the 'hate' she was getting.

[Fosse]

It reminded me of Fawlty Towers but with swear words.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

or Tiffany could have said "what? are you sure" and went and looked at David like a normal person..

Yes of course she could have done that, but in the moment of being told of someone's death, she reacted hysterically rather than logically and so she obviously wasn't thinking clearly.
I don't think it's the type of situation where there can be a 'normal' way of handling it, because for some people, their emotions will control their behaviour, moreso than for other people. Yes it's good that the rest of the group behaved more rationally (although they still weren't calm) and got to the bottom of what really happened, but it's not a fault of Tiffany's that she didn't. Also, the situations regarding how Tiffany was told the news compared to how the rest of the group were told, were completely different. Had everyone else been told individually, we'd be able to judge better what each of their reactions would have been, but Tiffany is the only one who was 'tested' (for want of a better word) in this way. When there's an extreme situation, it's much easier to be rational and logical when you're part of a group and are dealing with it together.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Only just watched it and wanted to post my opinions on the whole Angie/Tiffany thing...

Tiffany's reaction:
I totally get why she reacted the way she did. People have different reactions to situations like that, and I don't think she should be judged too harshly for it. With the whole "she said Gest", "no she didn't", "Tiffany's a liar" stuff, I think it's irrelevent what was said. It was a highly stressful situation, and she clearly wasn't thinking straight so people should give her a break imo.
And all her laughing etc, and her aggression towards Angie, obviously it didn't look good and it wasn't the 'right' way to handle it, but it was her way of dealing with what she found to be a traumatic situation (she was visibly shaking when she was sat in the diary room). It's easy for anyone to say she should have reacted differently but in the heat of the moment we all make mistakes, and she did try to rectify it when she approached Angie after she had calmed down.

Johns attack:
IMO, he used the situation as an excuse to attack Tiffany. He jumped straight in to say that she needs to go, there was no need for it, and it was disappointing to see everyone else follow his lead.
The way he spoke to her in the bathroom was disgraceful. I felt like he was revelling in her ostracisation. And Gemma repeating what he was saying, like a parrot, has sent her way down in my estimations.

Racism:
Whilst there may have been undertones of it (eg. the 'chicken' comment - depending on how it was intended) it wasn't explicit enough for anyone to really know if it was racism. And I don't think Tiffany being black should be used as an excuse for the racism card to be rolled out. I think there should be evidence of it otherwise it undermines actual racism. Yes, BB has a bad history re racism, but each situation judged on it's own merits etc.

Resolution:
Christopher instigated building the bridges, so good for him It's a shame he wasn't strong enough to stand up to John, when John poisoned Chris's attempts (but that's just Chris's personality, I don't blame him for it). John's "she's had enough air time today" comment, I thought summed up why he behaved the way he did in this episode. And I think he tried to use Angie's (AND Tiffany's) grief for his own ends, at the expense of actually resolving the situation.
As much as Gemma disappointed me earlier in the ep, I thought the convo between her and Tiffany at the end was really sweet. I couldn't help but feel sad for Tiffany when Kristina shot her down re her helping with the dishes


Also, I totally understand why a lot of people found the misunderstanding funny (seen some comments along those lines) but personally I found the whole thing quite upsetting. (Not judging anyone lol, that's just how I felt watching it.)


(Side note - I'm sad to see Jonathan go, he could have been a great HM )

Pretty good summation

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Yes of course she could have done that, but in the moment of being told of someone's death, she reacted hysterically rather than logically and so she obviously wasn't thinking clearly.
I don't think it's the type of situation where there can be a 'normal' way of handling it, because for some people, their emotions will control their behaviour, moreso than for other people. Yes it's good that the rest of the group behaved more rationally (although they still weren't calm) and got to the bottom of what really happened, but it's not a fault of Tiffany's that she didn't. Also, the situations regarding how Tiffany was told the news compared to how the rest of the group were told, were completely different. Had everyone else been told individually, we'd be able to judge better what each of their reactions would have been, but Tiffany is the only one who was 'tested' (for want of a better word) in this way. When there's an extreme situation, it's much easier to be rational and logical when you're part of a group and are dealing with it together.

..yeah, a group would be much more inclined to find 'logic', it would only take one or two to do that and 'lead'...the whole 'confiding' thing would have started the confusion and then well......then it's hard to come down form that sort of shock, it takes time and she wasn't given that time really before she started to feel a total hostility toward her to the point that people were saying they would leave if she didn't go...