[the truth]

http://news.sky.com/story/1001631/wh...-plane-toilets

what an absolute farking disgrace

[arista]

They can not fit them in
to big - Prices would have to go up.

Its normal for flights

[the truth]

Originally Posted by arista

They can not fit them in
to big - Prices would have to go up.

Its normal for flights

its a farking disgrace, it should be international law. greedy bstards have got enough cash. how can disabled people fly if they cant get to the toilet? DISGRACEFUL

[user104658]

A lot of the jets are (relatively) old and they cost multiple-millions to build. It's unrealistic to say that every airline must completely overhaul every single plane. The only real solution here, is to either overhaul a certain number of planes and then say that disabled facilities are only available on flights at certain times, OR to make sure the actual toilets themselves are up to standard on every plane, and have the seats nearest the toilet refitted to be suitable. That would probably mean the front and back rows, on most flights. The problem there being that there would then be a limited number of "disabled spaces" on each flight... so you might have a disabled person trying to book onto a flight that has plenty of seats left - but unable to as all the disabled seats are filled.

To make every flight entirely disabled-friendly is verging on impossible. You would have to widen the aisle significantly, and probably the leg space between seats... the initial cost would be in the billions, plus the ongoing loss of revenue year on year (more space = fewer seats). It's just not practical.

Really the best thing to do, would be to say that all newly manufactured jets must follow a code that includes being disabled-friendly from the ground up. Then the problem will phase itself out over time.

[bots]

the other thing to consider is the safety aspect. Someone in a wheelchair in an aisle is blocking emergency exit. It is also an untethered object if there is turbulence etc.

The solution would need to somehow allow for the replacement of a standard seat with someone in a wheel chair. It would also require turning space for the wheel chair so that it could move in all directions.

Where space is restricted, its just not feasible unforunately

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by the truth

its a farking disgrace, it should be international law. greedy bstards have got enough cash. how can disabled people fly if they cant get to the toilet? DISGRACEFUL

Completely agree. I don't care how much money it would cost them. They're a business that's providing a service to the public and disabled people are just as much members of the public as non disabled people. To treat them as less than that is absolutely disgusting! If they can't or won't cater for everyone, then they should cater for noone. Stuff like this makes me so angry. I've got a friend who is severely physically disabled and I think if more people were aware of the kind of limitations people like him face on a daily basis that the rest of us take for granted, they would think a bit harder before jumping to a "well that's just the way it is" conclusion.

[DemolitionRed]

You also have to consider that wheelchairs come in all shapes and sizes. Motorised wheelchairs for paraplegics tend to be very big, awkward and heavy and wheelchairs for oversized adults are often twice if not three times the width of your average chair.

Some people can't physically get out of a wheelchair without a hoist and so they do need to consider spaces to accommodate such chairs with the passenger still sitting in them. They obviously can't put a hoist in the loo (public facilities don't provide hoists) and so these people won't need to use the toilets.

They bolt such chairs down in mini buses, so there's no reason they can't be bolted down in a specially provided place on a plane.

Most wheelchair users who have their wheelchair put in the hold, are capable of using a walking aid for short distances. Getting a walking aid around the assault course on the way to the toilet could be a real problem but it is something, that with a little thought and consideration, could be resolved.

[the truth]

theres videos on you tube of disabled people crawling on their hands and knees to the toilet? ffs what a disgrace. these are multi billion dollar companies, every plane should have disabled access toilets.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Business is about making money not helping disabled people, the only way you can do it is through law

[the truth]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Business is about making money not helping disabled people, the only way you can do it is through law

this is where they are idiotic the disabled market is ginormous
multi multi billion

[the truth]

and how it is not yet enshrined in law to have disabled toilets on newly built planes defies belief tbh just goes to show the strive for equality has missed those most in need.

[the truth]

humiliating?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbfWIZm-P1c

[T*]

Originally Posted by the truth

humiliating?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbfWIZm-P1c

He says in the description that he's used to it and he's making a video on how he uses regular toilets soon...

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Tom*

He says in the description that he's used to it and he's making a video on how he uses regular toilets soon...

and your point is?

[Vicky.]

I would think probably only planes with business/first class areas are wheelchair friendly. Budget airlines..well its hard to even walk up and down the aisles, nevermind get a chair up there

[Livia]

90% of planes have no wheelchair access, but more than 90% of passengers don't use a wheelchair. It doesn't make economic sense to have disabled toilets on every plane, just in case. Is it too much to ask that disabled people use planes fitted out for them? Otherwise the cost of making every plane toilet accessible will be passed on to every passenger.

[the truth]

yes pass the costs on, this will in time bring in millions of disabled people who currently wont fly. their money will then pay to push prices back down. as it is 95% of disabled people wont fly because they wont want to crawl around on their hands and knees to take a ****....would you?

[Livia]

Well, I tailor my travel to suit my needs. If disabled people want to fly then they can... they just have to choose a route and a time that suits their needs. You cannot cater for every single person's particular need or the plane would never get off the ground.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

Well, I tailor my travel to suit my needs. If disabled people want to fly then they can... they just have to choose a route and a time that suits their needs. You cannot cater for every single person's particular need or the plane would never get off the ground.

less than 10% is too low their choices are way too limited, it shouldnt be that hard for disabled perosn to take a pee or a poo.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Livia

90% of planes have no wheelchair access, but more than 90% of passengers don't use a wheelchair. It doesn't make economic sense to have disabled toilets on every plane, just in case. Is it too much to ask that disabled people use planes fitted out for them? Otherwise the cost of making every plane toilet accessible will be passed on to every passenger.

Hi Livia. My view on this is that yes a disabled person could only use planes that are equiped for them, but there are still a number of problems with that. If all disabled passangers only booked flights on well equipped planes, then all those planes would be filled with disabled passengers only. I doubt that even planes that are equiped for disabled passengers, are well equiped enough to handle an entire plane of disabled passengers. And why shouldn't disabled people have just as many options as to the times they wish to fly, they might want a specific flight because of the price, or other reasons, and it just stings a bit that the reason they're limited in a way other people aren't is because of something like a toilet not being available to them, and the possible humiliation involved in that.
Yes the way it is, is like that because of economic sense, but I think there are a lot of problems generally in society with how we cater for disabled people, and if it means the economy of the airlines or able-bodied passengers takes a hit in order to correct some of the issues we have regarding how disabled people are catered for, then I'm all for that. I think society as a whole should take on some of the burden that is created by disability, I mean noone likes the idea of paying more for things because of other people (me included), but weighing that up against the idea of just leaving disabled people to get on with things, I don't know, it just isn't something that sits right with me, and not how a 'society' should operate I think.

Originally Posted by Livia

Well, I tailor my travel to suit my needs. If disabled people want to fly then they can... they just have to choose a route and a time that suits their needs. You cannot cater for every single person's particular need or the plane would never get off the ground.

It's not a case of the airlines needing to cater for everone's specific and individual needs, I mean the 'needs' in question here are basic sanitory ones, so when you or I are choosing flights based on our needs, it isn't an issue for us to take into consideration. Noone other than disbled people are limited to such a degree here so the needs that we have with regards to how we tailor our bookings aren't really comparable, we know that regardless of the flight we take, we're still going to have access to a toilet. But for them, they already have to tailor their bookings in the same way the rest of us do, but then on top of that, they have an extra 90% chance that the booking they want isn't going to be accessible for them.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Hi Livia. My view on this is that yes a disabled person could only use planes that are equiped for them, but there are still a number of problems with that. If all disabled passangers only booked flights on well equipped planes, then all those planes would be filled with disabled passengers only. I doubt that even planes that are equiped for disabled passengers, are well equiped enough to handle an entire plane of disabled passengers. And why shouldn't disabled people have just as many options as to the times they wish to fly, they might want a specific flight because of the price, or other reasons, and it just stings a bit that the reason they're limited in a way other people aren't is because of something like a toilet not being available to them, and the possible humiliation involved in that.
Yes the way it is, is like that because of economic sense, but I think there are a lot of problems generally in society with how we cater for disabled people, and if it means the economy of the airlines or able-bodied passengers takes a hit in order to correct some of the issues we have regarding how disabled people are catered for, then I'm all for that. I think society as a whole should take on some of the burden that is created by disability, I mean noone likes the idea of paying more for things because of other people (me included), but weighing that up against the idea of just leaving disabled people to get on with things, I don't know, it just isn't something that sits right with me, and not how a 'society' should operate I think.



It's not a case of the airlines needing to cater for everone's specific and individual needs, I mean the 'needs' in question here are basic sanitory ones, so when you or I are choosing flights based on our needs, it isn't an issue for us to take into consideration. Noone other than disbled people are limited to such a degree here so the needs that we have with regards to how we tailor our bookings aren't really comparable, we know that regardless of the flight we take, we're still going to have access to a toilet. But for them, they already have to tailor their bookings in the same way the rest of us do, but then on top of that, they have an extra 90% chance that the booking they want isn't going to be accessible for them.

great post

life is already infinitely harder for disabled people, we should as a society make it easier for them. it will benefit us all too as we see more disabled people getting out and about and fulfilling their talent and potential

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by the truth

great post

life is already infinitely harder for disabled people, we should as a society make it easier for them. it will benefit us all too as we see more disabled people getting out and about and fulfilling their talent and potential

This is very true. My friend who's disabled spends pretty much all day every day in his flat. He's not lazy, he's not staying in because he's depressed or anything, it's just that transport makes it incredibly difficult for him to go out because of the lack of disabled access on the tube system. It would cost a fortune for them to enable disabled access, but if they did, my friend and other disaled people would use it every day, so the cost of it would be put back in by disabled passengers, as well as the fact that they'd be going out and spending their money in shops etc (and just the fact that it would mean we're not confining people to their homes) means it's not a cost, it's an investment. (Bit off topic but the tube system is also something I feel strongly about )

[the truth]

disabled people have been lost in the mindless culture of diversity, where their issues and thrown in with all other so called minorities and disciminated groups....so they get less attention than the other groups ..its nuts, disabled people need help more than anyone else. to think they cant even fly and cant even get into most buildings in 2016 is a national disgrace

[Livia]

I would love to have every plane, every pub, every business in the whole world wheelchair accessible. And if you can think of a way to pay for that... I'd be interested to hear it.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Livia

I would love to have every plane, every pub, every business in the whole world wheelchair accessible. And if you can think of a way to pay for that... I'd be interested to hear it.

When these places are built, they're built to be able to accommodate people, so I think it's maybe just a case of changing a mindset about what requirements are needed for 'people' to access these places. Historically, disabled people were treated as less than an 'ordinary' person and they were shut away and ignored, so places like this didn't need to be built with them in mind. So although a lot's changed for the better in terms of general attitudes and equality laws etc, we can still improve further. If we start building all these places with the mindset that disabled people should be as free to access them as anyone else, then yes the initial costs would be higher, but not so much to make it an impossibility, and the long term benefits to disabled people and society as whole would be massive and far outweigh those initial costs imo.