[Kizzy]

Aw, I get the feeling the 'brexit' voters are like Bruce Willis in sixth sense, and just don't realise they've been duped..
Actually believing it's plausible to make a conscious decision on no information, it's impossible to say there was any measurable facts within the misinformation to base any semblance of a reasoned conclusion on.

Similarly, when faced with reports of racist incidents it is only brexiters who refuse to acknowledge it's happening?

Is this real life?

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Originally Posted by Livia

And I'm sure some remainers also had doubts.

Don't assume you're cleverer than anyone else, regardless of how they voted. And really... how tiresome are your constant "racist" comments on anyone who voted to leave.

I'm not assuming i'm cleverer than anyone else. I said ''racist Brexit idiots''. This applies to the racist Brexiters, unless you're one of the racist ones.

[Kizzy]

Oh I think I am, no bones about it... I think anyone who brexitted whilst blind to any facts as to the consequences are as ignorant as they come and the behaviour following the result is indicative of such ignorance. I'm not one bit surprised at the rise in hate crime.

[Ammi]

..my thoughts are that it's 'deteriorated' since the referendum results..(I think that Joey used that expression...and as he says, the referendum calling or results of which haven't caused any racial prejudices or xenophobia that wasn't already felt but more made them feel more comfortable with their comrades to have a voice..)...because of the 'it's all your fault/did you not think..' thing as well, adding another layer of hostility and negativity...that really is never going to have any value at all other than to detract from the problem that it is and one thing that I think both the vast majority of Brexiters and Remainers are in agreement on and come together on...is that we have to work together to quash that voice again and let it know that it isn't acceptable to any of us, no matter what our vote was...because 'accusing'../laying blame etc will only leave it to rise and rise...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh I think I am, no bones about it... I think anyone who brexitted whilst blind to any facts as to the consequences are as ignorant as they come and the behaviour following the result is indicative of such ignorance. I'm not one bit surprised at the rise in hate crime.

Conversely, I think anyone who lumps millions of people together to suit their dubious agenda is pretty ignorant and rather disingenuous.

I've been told on here that I shouldn't be upset about racism against Jews because we own all the banks... and Hollywood. That's the level of understanding of racism on this forum.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Conversely, I think anyone who lumps millions of people together to suit their dubious agenda is pretty ignorant and rather disingenuous.

I've been told on here that I shouldn't be upset about racism against Jews because we own all the banks... and Hollywood. That's the level of understanding of racism on this forum.

It's my opinion there is no agenda Livia, have I not been vocal about my feelings on the issue from day one?...I've been as genuine as humanly possible.

You may want to lump the forum together as to racism but I feel that suits your agenda, I agree however that there is a racist element to the forum as there is in society.

It is disingenuous to acknowledge racism towards one group but not another.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh I think I am, no bones about it... I think anyone who brexitted whilst blind to any facts as to the consequences are as ignorant as they come and the behaviour following the result is indicative of such ignorance. I'm not one bit surprised at the rise in hate crime.

what hate crime is this. It seems to be missing from the news

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh I think I am, no bones about it... I think anyone who brexitted whilst blind to any facts as to the consequences are as ignorant as they come and the behaviour following the result is indicative of such ignorance. I'm not one bit surprised at the rise in hate crime.

And conversely, I find ALL the 'Remainers' who IGNORE the very plain, very real FACTS about the EU - NONE of which justify ANY claim that the EU has been BENEFICIAL to the UK by the 'Remainers' - and still continue to trot out the same ignorant propaganda, is totally mind boggling.

A lot of we 'Brexiters' are FAR more informed than a lot of you 'Remainers' - considerably so, and it shows.

There MAY well be a 'rise in 'hate' crime' following the decision to Brexit - that in itself is subjective and highly debatable - but there is NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF that Brexit is the CAUSE of such a rise.

Another FACT as well, is that a huge percentage of these 'so-called' 'hate' crimes is due to UNSUBSTANTIATED, telephone reporting and other anecdotal reports to the media.

I could start an internet appeal now for people to report hate crimes against White British victims by 'Immigrants' and be swamped by the number of responses - just how many would be lying opportunists hoping to underscore their own political issues, would be debatable.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

And conversely, I find ALL the 'Remainers' who IGNORE the very plain, very real FACTS about the EU - NONE of which justify ANY claim that the EU has been BENEFICIAL to the UK by the 'Remainers' - and still continue to trot out the same ignorant propaganda, is totally mind boggling.

A lot of we 'Brexiters' are FAR more informed than a lot of you 'Remainers' - considerably so, and it shows.

There MAY well be a 'rise in 'hate' crime' following the decision to Brexit - that in itself is sunjective and highly debatable - but there is NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF that Brexit is the CAUSE of such a rise.

Another FACT as well, is that a huge percentage of these 'so-called' 'hate' crimes is due to UNSUBSTANTIATED, telephone reportingand anecdotal reports to the media.

I could start an internet appeal now for people to report hate crimes against White British victims by 'Immigrants' and be swamped by the number of responses - just how many would be lying opportunists hoping to underscore their own political issues, would be debatable.

I suspect, like many of these things, its a rise not in hate crime but in people reporting hate crime in a social media type frenzy.

"Omg that geeza gave me the stink eye im gonna report him on that website"

etc etc

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

And conversely, I find ALL the 'Remainers' who IGNORE the very plain, very real FACTS about the EU - NONE of which justify ANY claim that the EU has been BENEFICIAL to the UK by the 'Remainers' - and still continue to trot out the same ignorant propaganda, is totally mind boggling.

A lot of we 'Brexiters' are FAR more informed than a lot of you 'Remainers' - considerably so, and it shows.

There MAY well be a 'rise in 'hate' crime' following the decision to Brexit - that in itself is subjective and highly debatable - but there is NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF that Brexit is the CAUSE of such a rise.

Another FACT as well, is that a huge percentage of these 'so-called' 'hate' crimes is due to UNSUBSTANTIATED, telephone reporting and other anecdotal reports to the media.

I could start an internet appeal now for people to report hate crimes against White British victims by 'Immigrants' and be swamped by the number of responses - just how many would be lying opportunists hoping to underscore their own political issues, would be debatable.

Hmmm very 'us and them', I was only speaking from my personal point of veiw...I don't presume to know what other remain voters motives were.

The FACT is there were no FACTS to be had and the FACTS remain a mystery as to what what was, is and will be required to brexit effectively.

All you had was farage, bojo and the sun....All 3 have turned and sprinted as far from the issue as possible, how is that reassuring to anyone?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I suspect, like many of these things, its a rise not in hate crime but in people reporting hate crime in a social media type frenzy.

"Omg that geeza gave me the stink eye im gonna report him on that website"

etc etc

I agree LT - but I will wager that IF anyone actually HONESTLY and IMPARTIALLY analysed those 'reports', then PUBLISHED the results (which they won't) then we would see that a FAR reduced number of actually genuine 'Hate' crimes have been reported.

[Kizzy]

How strange is it that only now you are concerned you're being misled by the media?..

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Hmmm very 'us and them', I was only speaking from my personal point of veiw...I don't presume to know what other remain voters motives were.

The FACT is there were no FACTS to be had and the FACTS remain a mystery as to what what was, is and will be required to brexit effectively.

All you had was farage, bojo and the sun....All 3 have turned and sprinted as far from the issue as possible, how is that reassuring to anyone?

This is THE biggest claim by a lot of people and is the THE biggest lie:

Google: 'The EU' and MILLIONS of pages show.

The same people who would have NO trouble googling the best APP to purchase or the latest toe nail varnish that the 'celebrities' are sporting wrung their hands and wailed to the heavens that; "There just is no information out there" when it came to informing themselves of the facts about the EU and making an informed decision.

Farage has NOT run anywhere and it is pure BIGOTRY which sees some people continue to insult and berate this man, because the FACTS do not show anything other than that he has served his country unwaveriingly for 17 years, and having successfully voted himself out of a potential Ł200k pa job as an MEP - and NOT being an MP in Britain - then his job is done and he is stepping down to spend time with his family.

A lot of 'FACTS' about a post-Brexit Britain are there to be seen, but because they convey GOOD POSITIVE news and do not fit the bigotted 'Remainer''s agenda, they too - like the facts about the EU being BAD and DAMAGING for the UK - are ignored.

Facts about the fall in sterling and the Stock Market being temporary AND expected are there too - in my own posts - but again, they are ignored because they do not dovetail into the ludicrous post Brexit Dystopian future which all the hysterical doom-sayers are rejoicing in.

Time WILL show just how stupid such doom-saying really is.

I will BET on it.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How strange is it that only now you are concerned you're being misled by the media?..

This is a patently false claim by you if it is adressed to me, because I can reproduce many posts where I claim that the media is used to condition people.

In any event, one cannot blame the media for reportahe in this issue - just as one cannot blame the police - because it is the validity of those doing the reporting to both which I question.

I could have telephoned that 'Police' line and said that I am a pole and a white English speaking person in Harehills had just told me to 'Feck off back to Poland'.

Of course, I am neither Polish nor has the said incident REALLY happened, but it is a CALL to a DEDICATED line and my call - though a lie which is IMPOSSIBLE to verify - HAS to be added to the statistics.

Once added, that Statistical Total is then made public by the Police and relayed by the Media.

Neither are to blame for reportage, but that 'Statistical Total' would still be exaggerated B.S.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

This is THE biggest claim by a lot of people and is the THE biggest lie:

Google: 'The EU' and MILLIONS of pages show.

The same people who would have NO trouble googling the best APP to purchase or the latest toe nail varnish that the 'celebrities' are sporting wrung their hands and wailed to the heavens that; "There just is no information out there" when it came to informing themselves of the facts about the EU and making an informed decision.

Farage has NOT run anywhere and it is pure BIGOTRY which sees some people continue to insult and berate this man, because the FACTS do not show anything other than that he has served his country unwaveriingly for 17 years, and having successfully voted himself out of a potential Ł200k pa job as an MEP - and NOT being an MP in Britain - then his job is done and he is stepping down to spend time with his family.

A lot of 'FACTS' about a post-Brexit Britain are there to be seen, but because they convey GOOD POSITIVE news and do not fit the bigotted 'Remainer''s agenda, they too - like the facts about the EU being BAD and DAMAGING for the UK - are ignored.

Facts about the fall in sterling and the Stock Market being temporary AND expected are there too - in my own posts - but again, they are ignored because they do not dovetail into the ludicrous post Brexit Dystopian future which all the hysterical doom-sayers are rejoicing in.

Time WILL show just how stupid such doom-saying really is.

I will BET on it.

Hey I like google as much as the next person...but in this instance it is of no help as there is no plan...so nothing to google

Do I applaud a man who made it his mission to wipe trillions from the markets for his beloved Britain and go hide behind his nets in middle England?....Laughable.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

This is a patently false claim by you if it is adressed to me, because I can reproduce many posts where I claim that the media is used to condition people.

In any event, one cannot blame the media for reportahe in this issue - just as one cannot blame the police - because it is the validity of those doing the reporting to both which I question.

I could have telephoned that 'Police' line and said that I am a pole and a white English speaking person in Harehills had just told me to 'Feck off back to Poland'.

Of course, I am neither Polish nor has the said incident REALLY happened, but it is a CALL to a DEDICATED line and my call - though a lie which is IMPOSSIBLE to verify - HAS to be added to the statistics.

Once added, that Statistical Total is then made public by the Police and relayed by the Media.

Neither are to blame for reportage, but that 'Statistical Total' would still be exaggerated B.S.

Stats are BS now? Thanks I'll remember that for the next time you google some.

[Kizzy]

But the 'validity' of these people is not reliable... are they then 2nd class citizens? Liars? What?..


Police have said the number of hate crimes recorded for the last two weeks in June has spiked by 42 per cent on this time last year.

A total of 3,076 incidents were recorded across the country between 16 and 30 June – a dramatic increase on the 915 reports recorded over the same period in 2015.

The biggest number of recorded incidents came on 25 June – the day after the result of the EU referendum – when there were 289 hate crime related incidents.

Following the UK narrowly voting for Brexit, there have been numerous reports of ethnic minorities and immigrant families being targeted for racial abuse



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7126706.html

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

But the 'validity' of these people is not reliable... are they then 2nd class citizens? Liars? What?..


Police have said the number of hate crimes recorded for the last two weeks in June has spiked by 42 per cent on this time last year.

A total of 3,076 incidents were recorded across the country between 16 and 30 June – a dramatic increase on the 915 reports recorded over the same period in 2015.

The biggest number of recorded incidents came on 25 June – the day after the result of the EU referendum – when there were 289 hate crime related incidents.

Following the UK narrowly voting for Brexit, there have been numerous reports of ethnic minorities and immigrant families being targeted for racial abuse



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7126706.html

can you give us examples of what these reports consist of and if they are investigated or is it a bit like signing a petition

Presumably they are just reports with no counter argument?
So I can go online and say that someone shouted out "You white Scottish Bastard" at me when i was out driving and that counts as one - even if no such thing happened?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

can you give us examples of what these reports consist of and if they are investigated or is it a bit like signing a petition

Presumably they are just reports with no counter argument?
So I can go online and say that someone shouted out "You white Scottish Bastard" at me when i was out driving and that counts as one - even if no such thing happened?

I would question the validity of that claim.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

can you give us examples of what these reports consist of and if they are investigated or is it a bit like signing a petition

Presumably they are just reports with no counter argument?
So I can go online and say that someone shouted out "You white Scottish Bastard" at me when i was out driving and that counts as one - even if no such thing happened?

I have already proposed that argument LT and - as usual - it has fallen on deaf ears because it does not dovetail with preconceptions.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good perspective - no matter how skewed.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I have already proposed that argument LT and - as usual - it has fallen on deaf ears because it does not dovetail with preconceptions.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good perspective - no matter how skewed.

I find it amazing and depressing how this gets reported as news and then as fact

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Never let the facts get in the way of a good perspective - no matter how skewed.

That should be the motto of this place.

[joeysteele]

The Police have said there is a rise in reported hate crimes or incidents.

Sadly there are a few who refuse to warrant that a change in tone and indeed action against others has increased since this referendum and post its result.

How serious do things have to get before people have the right to report when they are now ,feeling unsafe and fearful, in what should be a 'safe' country the UK.
Just because it doesn't sit cosily with some who are maybe also fearful that one day this referendum could end up being seen as the most inflammatory ingredient to bringing out the worst in a minority of people who are racist, xenophobic and prejudiced.

When did we last have an MP doing her job,being stabbed and shot in the street because of her support of refugees and being in favour of immigration.
A good number it is reported of women MPs have had death threats and one is standing down as an MP, because of them and massive fears for her safety.

That is those in higher public life, now try to imagine if the scum who are racist and xenophobic are not bothered about how they go about people in higher public life, what will they be like to those ordinary people from other Countries when they come across them.

Things like we voted to leave the EU and get rid of you lot.
What has happened is the cowardly filth that are racist and xenophobic, now think they have been given licence from this referendum to show more of their rotten sick prejudices.

Why more hate incidents are being reported and dealt with now is because the tone has got stronger, the threats far worse and things are far more intimidating for those on the receiving end of it.
A little understanding as to how those people feel, rather than try to justify in any way or belittle racist and xenophobic attacks,verbal or otherwise on innocent people, would not go amiss in my view.

This post will be wasted on any who may read it,on and off here, who may be hardliners or who just cannot accept, or maybe even don't want to admit, this referendum has helped bring out the worst in a prejudiced minority.
However MPs of all parties are disgusted at what they are getting told in their constituencies, from the PM downwards.

It isn't the people from other Countries in my view who should not be in the UK, it is the rotten sick racist and xenophobic of our so called own people who shouldn't be.
How anyone can even try to belittle this rise in hate incidents is totally beyond me,unbelievable.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The Police have said there is a rise in reported hate crimes or incidents.

Sadly there are a few who refuse to warrant that a change in tone and indeed action against others has increased since this referendum and post its result.

How serious do things have to get before people have the right to repost when they are now ,feeling unsafe and fearful, in what should be a 'safe' country the UK.
Just because it doesn't sit cosily with some who are maybe also fearful that one day this referendum could end up being seen as the most inflammatory ingredient to bringing out the worst in a minority of people who are racist, xenophobic and prejudiced.

When did we last have an MP doing her job,being stabbed and shot in the street because of her support of refugees and being in favour of immigration.
A good number it is reported of women MPs have had death threats and one is standing down as an MP, because of them and massive fears for her safety.

That is those in higher public life, now try to imagine if the scum who are racist and xenophobic are not bothered about how they go about people in higher public life, what will they be like to those ordinary people from other Countries when they come across them.

Things like we voted to leave the EU and get rid of you lot.
What has happened is the cowardly filth that are racist and xenophobic, now think they have been given licence from this referendum to show more of their rotten sick prejudices.

Why more hate incidents are being reported and dealt with now is because the tone has got stronger, the threats far worse and things are far more intimidating for those on the receiving end of it.
A little understanding as to how those people feel, rather than try to justify in any way or belittle racist and xenophobic attacks,verbal or otherwise on innocent people, would not go amiss in my view.

This post will be wasted on hardliners who just cannot accept, or maybe even don't want to admit, this referendum has helped bring out the worst in a prejudiced minority.However MPs of all parties are disgusted at what they are getting told in their constituencies, from the PM downwards.

It isn't the people from other Countries in my view who should not be in the UK, it is the rotten sick racist and xenophobic of our so called own people who shouldn't be.
How anyone can even try to belittle this rise in hate incidents is totally beyond me,unbelievable.

I do not try to 'belittle' any rise in hate crime - and neither does LT from what I can see - but what we are both saying, is:

1. How many of the largely unchecked and uncheckable reports of hate crime are genuine? Because without knowing this, the figures are meaningless, and it is not 'reaching' to entertain the possibility that certain political factions may have seized this opportunity to discredit Brexit.

2. Is there any irrefutable PROOF that any rise in racism has been CAUSED by the Brexit decision? Because my logic decrees that it is far more likely that a 'Remain' decision would have triggered any racists to vent their frustration by attacking or abusing 'Foreigners'.

In any event, I find it baffling when ALL the facts and figures which I have posted showing the REAL negative data of our 42 year membership of the EU is readily dismissed as 'meaningless' but less verifiable data is held up as Gospel simply because that data dovetails with certain views.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I do not try to 'belittle' any rise in hate crime - and neither does LT from what I can see - but what we are both saying, is:

1. How many of the largely unchecked and uncheckable reports of hate crime are genuine? Because without knowing this, the figures are meaningless, and it is not 'reaching' to entertain the possibility that certain political factions may have seized this opportunity to discredit Brexit.

2. Is there any irrefutable PROOF that any rise in racism has been CAUSED by the Brexit decision? Because my logic decrees that it is far more likely that a 'Remain' decision would have triggered any racists to vent their frustration by attacking or abusing 'Foreigners'.

In any event, I find it baffling when ALL the facts and figures which I have posted showing the REAL negative data of our 42 year membership of the EU is readily dismissed as 'meaningless' but less verifiable data is held up as Gospel simply because that data dovetails with certain views.

I couldn't care how many of them are genuine or not, I do not however think people go to the Police with this lightly.
I have overheard myself some things I am disgusted with.
Also I made no reverence to anyone directly either.
What has 42 years in the EU now got to do with people becoming victims of racism, xenophobia and suffering intimidation and death threats at this time.

MPs are saying their surgeries have had people coming fearful for their future safety and being told to get out of the Country.

I again mention we had an MP stabbed to death and shot for her stand for refugees,I mentioned other MPs too, one who has had so bad as to death threats she is giving up her career in politics.

Go and talk to an MP like Anna Soubry and others, who will relay the disgusting and hateful things they have seen and heard during the referendum campaign and since.

The fact the police are getting a significant rise in the reporting of these hate incidents and that they will be investigating them leaves me to believe they take them very seriously.

How does one know when a hate threat or death threat is genuine, who knows, however if someone can be shown to have made them, then they deserve all that comes to them.

That's what should be done, or do some just want to sit back and just wait for more innocent people to be accosted, attacked, stabbed and shot as the MP was before it's said, 'oh yes, there may be something worse going on now'.