[arista]

"On the other hand"

No Vicky thats does not apply
OUR PM has said no more Refs



We Want Our Country back

[Denver]

saying 17 million peoples opinion is wrong and irrelevant is not the way to go when trying to patch up a broken country

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Adam.

saying 17 million peoples opinion is wrong and irrelevant is not the way to go when trying to patch up a broken country

But saying that 16 million peoples is, I suppose.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

While we're at it, can we demand a replay of the England Iceland match? I didn't like that result either, so surely we can demand another crack at it?

Oh yeah that's a very comparable analogy..not

[Tom4784]

It's a pointless endeavor, a bunch of people who didn't know what they were voting for swung the vote for the wrong side and now they need to live with the consequences of their ill thought out actions.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Oh yeah that's a very comparable analogy..not

No? You don't think so? I'm crushed.

My point is, for those who haven't grasped it, is... the decision is made, a democratic election has taken place, it has been counted and verified by returning officers up and down the land... end of story. Otherwise, what's the point in having an election?

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But saying that 16 million peoples is, I suppose.

thats totally different 33 million people went into a booth to tick one of 2 boxes which ever box had the most votes won and that was always the case you can change it because you disagree plus without a current prime minister that decision can not be made.

fyi i bet non of them would kicked up a fuss had remain won

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's a pointless endeavor, a bunch of people who didn't know what they were voting for swung the vote for the wrong side and now they need to live with the consequences of their ill thought out actions.

A damning indictment for anyone who doesn't share your view, Dezzy. I knew exactly what I was voting for, as did everyone I know who voted to leave. I took a long time to make up my mind and read a huge amount of materials. And yet I'm still accused of not knowing what I'm doing. Even by people who didn't bloody bother to vote! Rich...

[LeatherTrumpet]

It is a simple example that we are not the mature democracy that we thought we were

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

It is a simple example that we are not the mature democracy that we thought we were

It's a simple example that people have learned that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Not in this case though.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

No? You don't think so? I'm crushed.

My point is, for those who haven't grasped it, is... the decision is made, a democratic election has taken place, it has been counted and verified by returning officers up and down the land... end of story. Otherwise, what's the point in having an election?

Well to be fair it isn't even original having seen it about 10 times on an expat forum this morning

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Well to be fair it isn't even original having seen it about 10 times on an expat forum this morning

Well, I've been working this morning so I've not seen it.

Is this going to be a thing now? We can judge which posts are original? Or is this just for me?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

A damning indictment for anyone who doesn't share your view, Dezzy. I knew exactly what I was voting for, as did everyone I know who voted to leave. I took a long time to make up my mind and read a huge amount of materials. And yet I'm still accused of not knowing what I'm doing. Even by people who didn't bloody bother to vote! Rich...

It's only damning to you if you misread it.

I said 'a bunch of people who didn't know what they were voting for swung the vote for the wrong side' I'm talking about the swing voters who flooded Google's search requests asking what the EU is after they had voted on our fate, voters who were naive enough to believe writing on a bus and the fact that leaving the EU would have an effect on Immigration from the middle east.

A lot of people voted for a massive change without understanding what that change would be, that's just a fact that will become more and more apparent over the coming months and years.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's only damning to you if you misread it.

I said 'a bunch of people who didn't know what they were voting for swung the vote for the wrong side' I'm talking about the swing voters who flooded Google's search requests asking what the EU is after they had voted on our fate, voters who were naive enough to believe writing on a bus and the fact that leaving the EU would have an effect on Immigration from the middle east.

A lot of people voted for a massive change without understanding what that change would be, that's just a fact that will become more and more apparent over the coming months and years.

And likewise, a lot of people voted to remain without the first clue what it meant or why. If there's one thing we can agree on it's that if you wanted information about the effects of the in/out vote, you had to look bloody hard for it when it should have been freely available to everyone.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

Well, I've been working this morning so I've not seen it.

Is this going to be a thing now? We can judge which posts are original? Or is this just for me?

Original or not it's still not a comparable analogy, given apart from the initial disappointment we can move on with our lives unscathed

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's only damning to you if you misread it.

I said 'a bunch of people who didn't know what they were voting for swung the vote for the wrong side' I'm talking about the swing voters who flooded Google's search requests asking what the EU is after they had voted on our fate, voters who were naive enough to believe writing on a bus and the fact that leaving the EU would have an effect on Immigration from the middle east.

A lot of people voted for a massive change without understanding what that change would be, that's just a fact that will become more and more apparent over the coming months and years.

Dezzy I swear you are a one man polling machine

'a bunch of people who didn't know what they were voting for swung the vote for the wrong side'

can we have the poll and the figures that you must have run to come to that conclusion?

surely you are not basing this on anecdotal evidence?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Original or not it's still not a comparable analogy, given apart from the initial disappointment we can move on with our lives unscathed

Have you made your point now? Can we move on?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

And likewise, a lot of people voted to remain without the first clue what it meant or why. If there's one thing we can agree on it's that if you wanted information about the effects of the in/out vote, you had to look bloody hard for it when it should have been freely available to everyone.

Well no, to vote remain would be to keep the Status Quo so it's not really comparable since it's easier to understand the effects of remaining in the EU then it is to leave. A large section of voters very likely decided to throw this entire country off course on a whim.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Well no, to vote remain would be to keep the Status Quo so it's not really comparable since it's easier to understand the effects of remaining in the EU then it is to leave. A large section of voters very likely decided to throw this entire country off course on a whim.

I get that you're against the decision, Dezzy.... but it's a decision that's been made. If the Remain camp were as fired-up a week ago as they are now, the result would have been different. I'd suggest waiting to see what's going to happen because it's not going to be as bad as you're all predicting, quite the reverse. But there really isn't a choice.

[DemolitionRed]

The Constitutional Law Association have some very interesting discussions going on. Looking at the legalities behind this treaty, we still have a long way to go.

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/blog/

Nick Barber, Tom Hickman and Jeff King https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/blog/

The King by his proclamation… cannot change any part of the common law, or statute law, or the customs of the realm…

Does this mean Cameron, under the 'Rule of Law' can not action Article 50?

If we need to have a new Act of Parliament to action Article 50 and a new Act of Parliament can only be actioned by MP's, we may soon discover that we are not leaving the EU after all because if we don't implement Article 50 then we can't leave the EU

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

I get that you're against the decision, Dezzy.... but it's a decision that's been made.

See I generally agree with this in principle, I really do. I was pro indy last summer, I voted Yes, and I was gutted when 55% voted "no". I also believed that a huge chunk of that vote was based on lies (which has, unquestionably, turned out to be true). However I accepted that that was simply the lay of the land. 55% No, 45% Yes. If the vote had been cast a month earlier, a week later, months later, the figure would have been the same, truly the will of the people whether I agree with it or not. I still reserve the right to complain but I wasn't one of those stupidly demanding an immediate re-vote.

I am not so convinced this time around though... I don't think the result would stand. I don't think it would even be close - I think there could easily be a HUGE swing to "Remain" - and that feels like a problem? I don't know what the solution is... but, if the majority of a voting public are no longer represented accurately less than a week after a vote... it just seems like something has gone very wrong with the democratic process.


However, like I said earlier I think another vote would do more harm than good. Things will stabilise of course. In my opinion they will stabilise in a position where the country and each of us indvidually is worse off... but, it will at least be "calm waters" eventually... we will know where we stand. The damage of the out vote is done and a revote would only mean more uncertainty on top of that, chipping away the foundations, and only making things yet worse.

However I'm not going to pretend that the current state of affairs represents the current will of British people as a whole. It just doesn't.

[Wizard.]

I think everyone should follow this link and report this fraudulent and undemocratic petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/feedback

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

I get that you're against the decision, Dezzy.... but it's a decision that's been made. If the Remain camp were as fired-up a week ago as they are now, the result would have been different. I'd suggest waiting to see what's going to happen because it's not going to be as bad as you're all predicting, quite the reverse. But there really isn't a choice.

I'm not disputing the decision, like I said in my first post on this topic. I don't want a second Referendum. I want people to face the reality of the choices they've made but I'm also going to have an opinion on it and you just have to deal with that.

There's no way to know how bad it's going to be but the experts that Brexit supporters ignored because it didn't suit their narrative have been grim about the outcome and that's coming to pass. Blind optimism and naivety in place of solid plans got us into this mess in the first place, it's time to face up to reality and accept the fact that this won't blow over just because we want it to.

[lewis111]

It's a tricky one

The People voted and decided what they wanted and that's what happened, that's how a democracy works

But that fact that a huge chunk of the leave campaign was pure lies should be reason enough to to let people vote again now they know the real consequences of their vote

They know what happens when we are in the EU, and know what happens when we are not now

But it shouldn't be for at least a couple years in case things settle

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Wouldn't make a difference, the damage is done. In-out-in-out just makes us look unstable... finance and investment in the UK has been significantly damaged for decades either way (which makes us pretty screwed because we don't have much else propping up our economy)

well actually the stock market has pretty much recovered most of the losses already after just 5 days lol