[Ammi]

..thank you for taking the time Geistkrieger, your post is as articulate and insightful as Maru's have been...I've just quickly skimmed over for the moment but I'll read it through properly later and fully absorb...I initially though think it's similar in the UK as to members of the police having to be so very guarded, even in surroundings of close friends and are not allowed the same equal freedoms as many of us in the thoughts they verbalise...also with the mentally ill..?..I appreciate the difficulties in calling those situations because of their very unpredictability and of any potential dangers to a police officers personal safety plus the safety of members of the public as well...it's a big thing of mine, the lack of funding and cut backs for help for the mentally ill and so becomes another 'policing' responsibility, which is nowhere near being a solution for those that are the most vulnerable in our societies...


..anyways, I'll read through and absorb when I have more time but you have a safe day...

[Ammi]

..please tell me that you do really eat doughnuts and Twinkies all day, though...

[Ammi]

..and say 'book him Danno..'....

[DemolitionRed]

Maru thank you for such detailed descriptions. I think my friend must live on the nicer side of town in Baltimore. She teaches acting at a university and her husband is a professor of music at the same uni.

When you convert dollars to pounds, the house prices, even in expensive areas of the U.S seem very cheap but then I live in London where a mouse hole can easily set you back a £million. What is a regular monthly salary for unskilled workers? In the UK an unskilled basic rate in the UK is around £1,300 a month (abt $1700) before tax and NI

If you want a short answer you should ask, “what’s right about the North Sea” Its cold, unpredictable and often hazardous and the swell tends to get real big!

Hi Geistkrieger,
I think the UK must have followed the U.S. to the letter when it came to closing down facilities for the mentally ill and throwing people out on the streets under the very broken umbrella called ‘care in the community’. Our police and ambulance services are ill equipped in how to communicate or deal with so many different types of mental illness.

I know quite a lot about autism and understand how alarmed people can become when they are getting stared at or being approached by a stranger with no spatial awareness. From what you’ve described it sounds like you are very knowledgeable about this condition. Its easy to understand why they frighten people and if handled incorrectly, how things can get out of control very quickly. Like you say though, why would a cop presume mental illness when he sees someone behaving in an agitated way. The difference between here and certain states in the U.S. is, the probability of that person having a gun is as unlikely as my dog ever catching a squirrel; there is though, a high probability of him having a concealed knife.

I watched the video and the one thing that really alarmed me was his mother walking out the door and as she passed the cops she say’s “bipolar schizo” WHAT THE HELL!! She’d just warned these cops that he was unstable but instead of waiting with him and making sure she took that screwdriver out of his hand, she abandons him. She then starts screaming at him which was bound to make the cops nervous. As for him getting shot, (poor guy, he was probably just repairing a kitchen cupboard!) to me, a Brit, this feels really disturbing but again I’ll say, we don’t have guns and so if someone was holding a screwdriver the cops won’t shoot them. Are police trained in none lethal use of a firearm?

I couldn’t make the second video work but the third one was very good. There’s nothing like being put on the spot!

I totally get what you are saying regarding more blacks getting shot in primarily black cities. I hadn’t thought of that.

Militarizing police is something that gives me nightmares. It sprung from that bomb going off in Brussels where it filmed a mask task force leading people in and out of the station. A few weeks later it showed the streets of Brussels being watched over by police who looked like masked Navy seals. Their body armor could have been out of Star Wars and they looked so intimidating I thought, have I just witnessing the birth of a new type of police force?

I appreciate that you need the best protection available but when it comes to wearing masks and carrying something that resembles a Kalashnikov, the police need to keep in mind that this is also a very intimidating uniform to people with no interest in crime. I’m not a criminal and I like to think I can approach a police officer if I need help but no way would I approach anyone who looked like that.

Of course we never get the good stories…sad isn’t it, but sounds like your unit are being pro-active about mental illness and getting out there in the community... that’s great to hear.

A very insightful view from both of you about a part of the U.S. I know little about. Thank you.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Geistkrieger

Hi folks. I'm Maru's husband. I'm sunburned to a nice shade of red after being out in the Gulf of Mexico!

She asked me to weigh in on this discussion so let me get one thing out of the way since she's given enough info to where a little bit of searching will tell you exactly where I work.

Anything stated from this point forward is my opinion and is not the official opinion of my agency and I am not an official spokesman for my agency. To that end, I am an individual participating in a conversation that could possibly be had at any other time and place.

I'm not sure if that clarifies anything, but the fact that I need to make a disclaimer should give you all an idea of how much "CYA" needs to be done, even in our personal lives. This extends to our conversations outside of work where we aren't allowed to discuss some things for fear of giving unauthorized information in regard to ongoing criminal investigations. Needless to say, this sort of compartmentalization does create a sort of detachment at times in the personal lives of many officers which can cause the kind of disconnect from the public I see mentioned.

Anyways, I see lots of commentary about how the US police interact with the mentally ill. I'm glad to see the interest in the welfare of others. Its important to understand some of the major reasons that the jails and police are constantly interacting with the mentally ill is that the US started closing facilities for the mentally ill in the 1950's. During the 1960's the US changed how those that remained functioned. In doing so, the Federal Government suddenly had to shoulder the financial burden and it was in its own interest to shut down additional facilities, thereby reducing the financial footprint. By shutting these facilities down, those who had been housed there were released into a world they were/are ill prepared to function in. When these individuals would have interactions with the "normal" populace, the immediate response was/is to call the police. The police are suddenly thrust into the role of trying to provide services to these individuals who often have a distrust of authorities and have problems communicating, further exacerbating the issue.

The mentally ill often know that the police are there to take care of a "problem" and catch the "bad guys". Imagine the surprise and dismay someone goes through when they're told they are the problem when they are doing things they consider perfectly normal. Add into that the inability to communicate thoughts or ideas.

Let's take this a hypothetical direction. An autistic individual is stopped because he's trying to talk to everyone going into a Starbucks late at night. Eventually, the police are called. The police show up and the autistic person is stopped. I don't know how much you know about autism, but for some, they are hypersensitive to stimuli. This can result in confusion. Additionally, normal social interactions are out the window. Some will refuse to look people in the eye. Some will yell will speaking will do. Some will make nervous movements. For this example, we'll say our individual is digging around in their pockets and shuffling his feet.

Let's shift gears to what the police see. Let's suggest the officer arrives alone at first. While trying to speak to this individual they've never met before, they see him fussing with his pockets. Does he have a weapon? A gun? A knife? How close are they? Generally speaking, within 21 feet a knife wielding assailant can be stabbing you before you can draw your weapon. He's shuffling his feet. Is he getting ready to rush the officer? He seems confused and won't look the officer in the eye. He keeps twitching and shying away when looking at the officer standing by the flashing lights on his car. Is he on drugs? Individuals who are high on drugs can have inhuman strength because internal stop signs (pain) don't function anymore, allowing the muscles to function beyond the point their brain would tell him to stop. This means "less lethal" options like tasers and OC Spray are useless. Why's he yelling? The officer isn't that far away. He won't respond to the officers orders and seems to be getting more agitated. The patrons see the police arrive and are watching every move the officer makes. Are they in the line of fire if things go bad? The officer doesn't want any innocent bystanders hurt, so he starts telling them to back away. The individual he was called to speak to starts getting more agitated. The officer has to turn his attention back to the individual while trying to tell the patrons to clear the area for their own safety.

All of these things run through an officers mind the moment he makes it to the scene. This is just one example of what happens when an officer is expected to come and resolve a situation because that is what the public expects him or her to do and has to do it correctly.

Let's get back to our example from the point of view of the autistic person.

Anger is often a secondary emotion to frustration and fear. This generates hostility. The officer is yelling commands at the autistic individual. The autistic person is scared and the flashing lights are confusing. The autistic person isn't understanding what is going on and becomes even further confused. Unable to communicate, he gets frustrated and starts getting angry. He knows there's a bus station on the corner nearby but he needs to get away from the all the stimuli and the only way to get to that bus stop is past the flashing lights. He starts running. He's running towards the officer who is now forced to make a decision.

What do you do? Remember, 21 feet is all it takes to determine if you go home or go out in a bodybag, and that's assuming good reflexes. Let's suggest backup arrives behind the officer. All they see is a guy with his hands in his pockets running at the initial officer. They're forced to make the same decision. Maybe they can't see everything the officer in front can and they make the decision to shoot.

I understand this is a long hypothetical situation but the point is that we have the luxury of time to analyze our options. For those familiar with American Football, there's a saying called "Monday Morning Quarterbacking". Since most games are played on Sunday and people talk about the games on Monday, it's easy to sit down and analyze all the mistakes made and say what a player should or shouldn't have done.

If you'd rather, there's a 30 second officer bodycam clip that will let you visualize a similar situation to the one I just posited and I want you to consider how much time you have to react. It's a video that is shown in some of our trainings and I will give you an unfair advantage. Your reaction time starts on when you hear the squeaking of shoes. That squeaking is when the officers say the individual charged them.

https://youtu.be/-aALArJP4rw


Now understand that I don't say this to excuse shooting individuals down. I say it in an attempt to show you how quickly a situation can turn lethal. Shortly after this happened as well as a couple of other shootings, a local rights activist named Quannell X was offered a chance to go through some of the same Shoot-Don't Shoot scenarios that Law Enforcement goes through. Watch how he fared as well as how another activist and a reporter fared in Phoenix, AZ.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/a-wal...lice/148779412

https://youtu.be/yfi3Ndh3n-g

I know that in the UK, firearms are very strictly legislated. Some folks I've spoken to have said that if firearms were subject to similar restrictions in the US, there'd be less crime. I can also say after having worked as a security officer in the streets of Baltimore that a good number of the people I was interacting with were more heavily armed than I was. Luckily, I knew how to speak to them and eventually, after the initial interaction, we were usually at least amicable. I knew that many of them didn't want to carry a weapon, but I also knew that what they were exposed to gave them a high chance of being victimized and that they had no alternative method to protect themselves. Compared to other U.S. states, Maryland has some of the most draconian firearms laws in the nation but it's important to remember that criminals are already intent on breaking the law. A firearms law isn't something they really concern themselves with.

When you understand how small the city is and how high the murder rate is for a city of its size, it makes more sense. For those who have seen "The Wire", it does sensationalize some things but there are portions of it that are accurate portrayals of the area with some stories pulled straight from the headlines. Probably the funniest thing about "The Wire" is that the city of Baltimore was so unhappy with the light it was being portrayed in, they banned the producers from filming in Baltimore anymore. Not to be deterred, they moved production to Philadelphia, PA which acted as a stand-in for the city of Baltimore when needed.

In the example of Baltimore, you should also be aware that 63% of the population is black, almost 31% is white, and almost 25% of the city is considered impoverished by the Federal Government. If most of your population is of one race, it's somewhat impossible to say that one race is being targeted over another. There's simply a higher chance of encountering someone who is black rather than white in Baltimore. Obviously I can't speak for other places and won't but to suggest otherwise would be akin to being surprised to find someone of Asian descent in China. I think it's also pertinent to mention that among black males in the US, Homicide is the leading cause of death for age groups 15-24 and 25-34 per the US Center for Disease Control.

In terms of militarizing the police, what you're seeing is an evolution of weapons and tactics on both sides of the law. One could say something similar about being under the ever watchful CCTV cameras in use by the Metropolitan Police Service. The MPS utilizes CCTV for the obvious reasons that it allows them to review the footage for potential evidence where there might have been none otherwise. In the US, booby-trapped doors and things of that nature are seen in areas of high drug traffic. One man booby trapped the door to his trailer in 2013 with a "Spring Gun" (essentially a shotgun rigged to go off if the door is opened) and accidentally shot his niece who had come to give him his eviction papers. Another individual holed up in his house in Houston after already having shot two officers. It resulted in the SWAT team bringing in an armored vehicle to create an entry and the individual still firing at officers. He was taken into custody alive.

Probably one of the most enduring tactics and equipment related reasons has been the North Hollywood Bank of America shootout. Two individuals armed with illegally modified rifles to allow for fully automatic fire and body armor entered a Bank of America and robbed it. At the time, most officers only carried a 9mm pistol or a 40 cal pistol. Additionally, a 12 Gauge shotgun might have been in the trunk of an officers car. Both of pistols were incapable of penetrating the armor worn by the bank robbers. Additionally, the robbers were more able to engage officers due to them being limited to the range at which a handgun can be fired accurately versus a rifle. The officers on the scene ended up going to a nearby gun store and borrowed semi-auto rifles to give themselves a fighting chance until SWAT arrived because they were unable to stop the robbers with their standard equipment.

Simply put, the police need equipment to ensure they safely make through each day. As threats grow more numerous in size, style, and scope, the amount and types of gear needed to respond to each threat increases. As the Scout saying goes, "Always be prepared". SWAT stands for Special Weapons And Tactics. This means that they are by definition going to be extensively equipped compared to your standard officer on the street. Agencies also have their own take on SWAT. HROU (High Risk Operations Unit) for example is inherently dangerous as the name implies and are also extensively equipped.

Finally, on the brutality of the police, I think it's a fairly obvious comment that a regular old traffic stop that results in a ticket for speeding isn't going to make headlines or stoke outrage. The public won't seize upon things like that. It's inherently boring and pedestrian and that's the point. You won't see stories about that sort of thing. It's not newsworthy. Even this story about Deputies who stopped and played basketball with some local kids got a quick little blurb and then was forgotten in the local news and wasn't ever picked up by the national media.

http://abc13.com/news/video-deputies...-kids/1172984/

In regard to US media, Maru is pretty much spot on with her analysis of US news. I listen to the BBC sometimes because it is one of the only places I can get news about the US without it having a political spin attached to it. Basically, they don't seem to pull any shenanigans because they don't usually have anything to gain from doing so. Any time you read US news, one has to ask if there's a bias. There are websites that have sprung up purely to fact check the US media and are doing exceptionally well during the new election cycle. The priority is sensational news to get people to tune in and increase their ratings. I'm sure many of you have clicked on a link with an outrageous title only to have it be bogus or an exaggeration. There are many times that those outrageous titles are simply a cover for an agenda, often times using shreds of truth to try and tie together the narrative they want you to believe.

Personally, I feel inclined to let you folks know that we have patrol units with a civilian clinician working alongside a specially trained deputy. I also feel you should know that we are seen as a model for other agencies around the country that others are starting to mimic. Our unit has had a few documentaries come through as well. We also have a jail-based unit that, in addition to the standard required training, also has approximately 120 hours of additional coursework based completely in Mental Health related issues and tactics for deescalating situations. We also work hand-in-hand with the jailhouse SWAT team and act as negotiators in an attempt to gain compliance before that team is deployed. We also interact and speak with inmates who make claims of being actively suicidal or having thoughts of suicide. While not clinicians or doctors, we play a valuable role in gaining information from the inmates so that the doctor has some idea of the individuals issues, history, etc. It should be noted that we screen every single inmate who comes to our jail for both physical and mental health issues. It slows down our processing but in the long run is beneficial to our inmates. This is all in addition to managing the care, custody, and control of our own mentally ill inmates that are housed within our unit. On a personal note, I would say that the population can be broken down into thirds. 1/3 have legitimate psychological issues. Whether that's the result of drug use or just how they are doesn't matter to us. Another 1/3 have issues that can be controlled with medication and as long as they are compliant with their medications, we see a marked difference in their behavior. The final 1/3 are malingerers. I've been told by individuals there that they made the claim to try and beat their case. They also said they did it to get prescription medications to use as currency for favors. There have also been statements made that they did it so that when they leave the jail they can claim to have mental issues and be given a free disability check. Finally, there are constant reports that the malingerers routinely make claims so that they are assigned to the mental health housing areas because the mentally ill are easy prey when it comes to taking things which do not belong to them.

I started to talk about some of the things I've personally done and experienced, but I don't want to pat myself on the back. What I will say is that officers often appear distant because they spend their day looking for deception, knowing that one mistake can cost their lives. It can make folks cynical. I think it's important though to leave you with one last bit of something for thought. A few days ago, an inmate approached me and asked if we (the officers) see them (the inmates) as just a herd of people to be controlled or if we see them as individuals. I told him yes on both counts and explained that while there are certain precautions that I and other officers take when dealing with inmates as a general rule for our safety, I much prefer to speak to people on an individual level and that being respectful on both sides of the spectrum works much better for everyone involved. It's much easier to hear someone's problems out when they aren't cursing you and everyone you've ever known.

Lastly, I'm happy people want to be a part of change, however I also think talk is just that, talk. Until they participate in being part of the changes, nothing will change. I've said it before and continue to say it when people ask about change in Law Enforcement. "Be the change you want to see!"

I do hope some of this has been insightful and is somewhat explanatory. There are other topics I've seen mentioned here that I wanted to address from my perspective, but my time is limited, so have a good night!

P.S. - GET A LIFE! BIN THAT KNIFE!

..it sounds, Geistkrieger as though you and your police force are a leading force of example to others, which is great to see those positives as well because as you say..so much reported by media tends to slant toward negatives as opposed to positives and doesn't show a good balance of any of these things...negative attracts I always think as well, so it grows and grows in how we view things...the vids with the activists taking part are interesting as well, for them to be seeing it from the perspective of the police officers also and the realisation of how little time is involved in loss of life..whether that be the police officers themselves or that person in front of them ...when we comment though, when we have these stories ...?...it tends to be more focusing on 'questionable' killings by officers..ones when it appears that weapons were drawn and fired without any threat being apparent..or even if someone already seems to be disabled of any threat and then shots were still fired....mind you, I can see from the vids that you posted, the extreme importance of compliance as is said in there because a small almost unnoticeable wriggling to us may indeed be a weapon being attempted to be pulled out and used...anyways, we must keep the balance of what police officers are faced with but we also must have questioning and accountability if procedures etc don't appear to have been followed as well...I also loved the vid of the officers playing basketball....and yeah, that balance is important to be actually seen by people, to build the trust as well, rather than building fear and mistrust...

....I also understand what you've said about citizens feeling needs to have weapons themselves ...but isn't that always going to create a 'need a bigger and more powerful one' situation for police to be effective and then weapons breeding more weapons and on and on...so the issue seems to many of us in the UK to be the gun laws themselves...



...anyways your insight has given me many thoughts but I've bolded the last bit because it's something that I particularly completely agree with...communication/listening as well as talking is everything for understanding..and the only real/accurate source of information is the source itself and talking to 'real' people with 'real' although discussions are always good and very much needed as well etc, they won't change anything ..only actions will ever do that... "Be the change you want to see!" is a great slogan and philosophy to have in life...

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Geistkrieger

Hi folks. I'm Maru's husband. I'm sunburned to a nice shade of red after being out in the Gulf of Mexico!

She asked me to weigh in on this discussion so let me get one thing out of the way since she's given enough info to where a little bit of searching will tell you exactly where I work.

Anything stated from this point forward is my opinion and is not the official opinion of my agency and I am not an official spokesman for my agency. To that end, I am an individual participating in a conversation that could possibly be had at any other time and place.

I'm not sure if that clarifies anything, but the fact that I need to make a disclaimer should give you all an idea of how much "CYA" needs to be done, even in our personal lives. This extends to our conversations outside of work where we aren't allowed to discuss some things for fear of giving unauthorized information in regard to ongoing criminal investigations. Needless to say, this sort of compartmentalization does create a sort of detachment at times in the personal lives of many officers which can cause the kind of disconnect from the public I see mentioned.

Anyways, I see lots of commentary about how the US police interact with the mentally ill. I'm glad to see the interest in the welfare of others. Its important to understand some of the major reasons that the jails and police are constantly interacting with the mentally ill is that the US started closing facilities for the mentally ill in the 1950's. During the 1960's the US changed how those that remained functioned. In doing so, the Federal Government suddenly had to shoulder the financial burden and it was in its own interest to shut down additional facilities, thereby reducing the financial footprint. By shutting these facilities down, those who had been housed there were released into a world they were/are ill prepared to function in. When these individuals would have interactions with the "normal" populace, the immediate response was/is to call the police. The police are suddenly thrust into the role of trying to provide services to these individuals who often have a distrust of authorities and have problems communicating, further exacerbating the issue.

The mentally ill often know that the police are there to take care of a "problem" and catch the "bad guys". Imagine the surprise and dismay someone goes through when they're told they are the problem when they are doing things they consider perfectly normal. Add into that the inability to communicate thoughts or ideas.

Let's take this a hypothetical direction. An autistic individual is stopped because he's trying to talk to everyone going into a Starbucks late at night. Eventually, the police are called. The police show up and the autistic person is stopped. I don't know how much you know about autism, but for some, they are hypersensitive to stimuli. This can result in confusion. Additionally, normal social interactions are out the window. Some will refuse to look people in the eye. Some will yell will speaking will do. Some will make nervous movements. For this example, we'll say our individual is digging around in their pockets and shuffling his feet.

Let's shift gears to what the police see. Let's suggest the officer arrives alone at first. While trying to speak to this individual they've never met before, they see him fussing with his pockets. Does he have a weapon? A gun? A knife? How close are they? Generally speaking, within 21 feet a knife wielding assailant can be stabbing you before you can draw your weapon. He's shuffling his feet. Is he getting ready to rush the officer? He seems confused and won't look the officer in the eye. He keeps twitching and shying away when looking at the officer standing by the flashing lights on his car. Is he on drugs? Individuals who are high on drugs can have inhuman strength because internal stop signs (pain) don't function anymore, allowing the muscles to function beyond the point their brain would tell him to stop. This means "less lethal" options like tasers and OC Spray are useless. Why's he yelling? The officer isn't that far away. He won't respond to the officers orders and seems to be getting more agitated. The patrons see the police arrive and are watching every move the officer makes. Are they in the line of fire if things go bad? The officer doesn't want any innocent bystanders hurt, so he starts telling them to back away. The individual he was called to speak to starts getting more agitated. The officer has to turn his attention back to the individual while trying to tell the patrons to clear the area for their own safety.

All of these things run through an officers mind the moment he makes it to the scene. This is just one example of what happens when an officer is expected to come and resolve a situation because that is what the public expects him or her to do and has to do it correctly.

Let's get back to our example from the point of view of the autistic person.

Anger is often a secondary emotion to frustration and fear. This generates hostility. The officer is yelling commands at the autistic individual. The autistic person is scared and the flashing lights are confusing. The autistic person isn't understanding what is going on and becomes even further confused. Unable to communicate, he gets frustrated and starts getting angry. He knows there's a bus station on the corner nearby but he needs to get away from the all the stimuli and the only way to get to that bus stop is past the flashing lights. He starts running. He's running towards the officer who is now forced to make a decision.

What do you do? Remember, 21 feet is all it takes to determine if you go home or go out in a bodybag, and that's assuming good reflexes. Let's suggest backup arrives behind the officer. All they see is a guy with his hands in his pockets running at the initial officer. They're forced to make the same decision. Maybe they can't see everything the officer in front can and they make the decision to shoot.

I understand this is a long hypothetical situation but the point is that we have the luxury of time to analyze our options. For those familiar with American Football, there's a saying called "Monday Morning Quarterbacking". Since most games are played on Sunday and people talk about the games on Monday, it's easy to sit down and analyze all the mistakes made and say what a player should or shouldn't have done.

If you'd rather, there's a 30 second officer bodycam clip that will let you visualize a similar situation to the one I just posited and I want you to consider how much time you have to react. It's a video that is shown in some of our trainings and I will give you an unfair advantage. Your reaction time starts on when you hear the squeaking of shoes. That squeaking is when the officers say the individual charged them.

https://youtu.be/-aALArJP4rw


Now understand that I don't say this to excuse shooting individuals down. I say it in an attempt to show you how quickly a situation can turn lethal. Shortly after this happened as well as a couple of other shootings, a local rights activist named Quannell X was offered a chance to go through some of the same Shoot-Don't Shoot scenarios that Law Enforcement goes through. Watch how he fared as well as how another activist and a reporter fared in Phoenix, AZ.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/a-wal...lice/148779412

https://youtu.be/yfi3Ndh3n-g

I know that in the UK, firearms are very strictly legislated. Some folks I've spoken to have said that if firearms were subject to similar restrictions in the US, there'd be less crime. I can also say after having worked as a security officer in the streets of Baltimore that a good number of the people I was interacting with were more heavily armed than I was. Luckily, I knew how to speak to them and eventually, after the initial interaction, we were usually at least amicable. I knew that many of them didn't want to carry a weapon, but I also knew that what they were exposed to gave them a high chance of being victimized and that they had no alternative method to protect themselves. Compared to other U.S. states, Maryland has some of the most draconian firearms laws in the nation but it's important to remember that criminals are already intent on breaking the law. A firearms law isn't something they really concern themselves with.

When you understand how small the city is and how high the murder rate is for a city of its size, it makes more sense. For those who have seen "The Wire", it does sensationalize some things but there are portions of it that are accurate portrayals of the area with some stories pulled straight from the headlines. Probably the funniest thing about "The Wire" is that the city of Baltimore was so unhappy with the light it was being portrayed in, they banned the producers from filming in Baltimore anymore. Not to be deterred, they moved production to Philadelphia, PA which acted as a stand-in for the city of Baltimore when needed.

In the example of Baltimore, you should also be aware that 63% of the population is black, almost 31% is white, and almost 25% of the city is considered impoverished by the Federal Government. If most of your population is of one race, it's somewhat impossible to say that one race is being targeted over another. There's simply a higher chance of encountering someone who is black rather than white in Baltimore. Obviously I can't speak for other places and won't but to suggest otherwise would be akin to being surprised to find someone of Asian descent in China. I think it's also pertinent to mention that among black males in the US, Homicide is the leading cause of death for age groups 15-24 and 25-34 per the US Center for Disease Control.

In terms of militarizing the police, what you're seeing is an evolution of weapons and tactics on both sides of the law. One could say something similar about being under the ever watchful CCTV cameras in use by the Metropolitan Police Service. The MPS utilizes CCTV for the obvious reasons that it allows them to review the footage for potential evidence where there might have been none otherwise. In the US, booby-trapped doors and things of that nature are seen in areas of high drug traffic. One man booby trapped the door to his trailer in 2013 with a "Spring Gun" (essentially a shotgun rigged to go off if the door is opened) and accidentally shot his niece who had come to give him his eviction papers. Another individual holed up in his house in Houston after already having shot two officers. It resulted in the SWAT team bringing in an armored vehicle to create an entry and the individual still firing at officers. He was taken into custody alive.

Probably one of the most enduring tactics and equipment related reasons has been the North Hollywood Bank of America shootout. Two individuals armed with illegally modified rifles to allow for fully automatic fire and body armor entered a Bank of America and robbed it. At the time, most officers only carried a 9mm pistol or a 40 cal pistol. Additionally, a 12 Gauge shotgun might have been in the trunk of an officers car. Both of pistols were incapable of penetrating the armor worn by the bank robbers. Additionally, the robbers were more able to engage officers due to them being limited to the range at which a handgun can be fired accurately versus a rifle. The officers on the scene ended up going to a nearby gun store and borrowed semi-auto rifles to give themselves a fighting chance until SWAT arrived because they were unable to stop the robbers with their standard equipment.

Simply put, the police need equipment to ensure they safely make through each day. As threats grow more numerous in size, style, and scope, the amount and types of gear needed to respond to each threat increases. As the Scout saying goes, "Always be prepared". SWAT stands for Special Weapons And Tactics. This means that they are by definition going to be extensively equipped compared to your standard officer on the street. Agencies also have their own take on SWAT. HROU (High Risk Operations Unit) for example is inherently dangerous as the name implies and are also extensively equipped.

Finally, on the brutality of the police, I think it's a fairly obvious comment that a regular old traffic stop that results in a ticket for speeding isn't going to make headlines or stoke outrage. The public won't seize upon things like that. It's inherently boring and pedestrian and that's the point. You won't see stories about that sort of thing. It's not newsworthy. Even this story about Deputies who stopped and played basketball with some local kids got a quick little blurb and then was forgotten in the local news and wasn't ever picked up by the national media.

http://abc13.com/news/video-deputies...-kids/1172984/

In regard to US media, Maru is pretty much spot on with her analysis of US news. I listen to the BBC sometimes because it is one of the only places I can get news about the US without it having a political spin attached to it. Basically, they don't seem to pull any shenanigans because they don't usually have anything to gain from doing so. Any time you read US news, one has to ask if there's a bias. There are websites that have sprung up purely to fact check the US media and are doing exceptionally well during the new election cycle. The priority is sensational news to get people to tune in and increase their ratings. I'm sure many of you have clicked on a link with an outrageous title only to have it be bogus or an exaggeration. There are many times that those outrageous titles are simply a cover for an agenda, often times using shreds of truth to try and tie together the narrative they want you to believe.

Personally, I feel inclined to let you folks know that we have patrol units with a civilian clinician working alongside a specially trained deputy. I also feel you should know that we are seen as a model for other agencies around the country that others are starting to mimic. Our unit has had a few documentaries come through as well. We also have a jail-based unit that, in addition to the standard required training, also has approximately 120 hours of additional coursework based completely in Mental Health related issues and tactics for deescalating situations. We also work hand-in-hand with the jailhouse SWAT team and act as negotiators in an attempt to gain compliance before that team is deployed. We also interact and speak with inmates who make claims of being actively suicidal or having thoughts of suicide. While not clinicians or doctors, we play a valuable role in gaining information from the inmates so that the doctor has some idea of the individuals issues, history, etc. It should be noted that we screen every single inmate who comes to our jail for both physical and mental health issues. It slows down our processing but in the long run is beneficial to our inmates. This is all in addition to managing the care, custody, and control of our own mentally ill inmates that are housed within our unit. On a personal note, I would say that the population can be broken down into thirds. 1/3 have legitimate psychological issues. Whether that's the result of drug use or just how they are doesn't matter to us. Another 1/3 have issues that can be controlled with medication and as long as they are compliant with their medications, we see a marked difference in their behavior. The final 1/3 are malingerers. I've been told by individuals there that they made the claim to try and beat their case. They also said they did it to get prescription medications to use as currency for favors. There have also been statements made that they did it so that when they leave the jail they can claim to have mental issues and be given a free disability check. Finally, there are constant reports that the malingerers routinely make claims so that they are assigned to the mental health housing areas because the mentally ill are easy prey when it comes to taking things which do not belong to them.

I started to talk about some of the things I've personally done and experienced, but I don't want to pat myself on the back. What I will say is that officers often appear distant because they spend their day looking for deception, knowing that one mistake can cost their lives. It can make folks cynical. I think it's important though to leave you with one last bit of something for thought. A few days ago, an inmate approached me and asked if we (the officers) see them (the inmates) as just a herd of people to be controlled or if we see them as individuals. I told him yes on both counts and explained that while there are certain precautions that I and other officers take when dealing with inmates as a general rule for our safety, I much prefer to speak to people on an individual level and that being respectful on both sides of the spectrum works much better for everyone involved. It's much easier to hear someone's problems out when they aren't cursing you and everyone you've ever known.

Lastly, I'm happy people want to be a part of change, however I also think talk is just that, talk. Until they participate in being part of the changes, nothing will change. I've said it before and continue to say it when people ask about change in Law Enforcement. "Be the change you want to see!"

I do hope some of this has been insightful and is somewhat explanatory. There are other topics I've seen mentioned here that I wanted to address from my perspective, but my time is limited, so have a good night!

P.S. - GET A LIFE! BIN THAT KNIFE!

The most interesting and insightful post i've ever seen on here

Edited to add:Everybody needs to see those videos to get an insight into just how tough and quick those shoot or don't shoot situations are.The police are'nt Robocop.They are only human and do an incredibly tough and brave job.

[LeatherTrumpet]

A demonstrator wearing the insignia of the New Black Panthers Party carries a shotgun during a protest against the shooting death of Alton Sterling ,near the headquarters of the Baton Rouge Police Department in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, U.S. July 9, 2016.

Reuters/Jonathan Bachman

[Maru]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

A demonstrator wearing the insignia of the New Black Panthers Party carries a shotgun during a protest against the shooting death of Alton Sterling ,near the headquarters of the Baton Rouge Police Department in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, U.S. July 9, 2016.

Reuters/Jonathan Bachman

Yeah our local one is Quannell X. I read his wikipedia last night because I didn't know his whole backstory (I was living in MD at the time). I'm sure the wikipedia leaves out some positives, but the quotes there are horrid...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanell_X

"I say to Jewish America: Get ready … knuckle up, put your boots on, because we're ready and the war is going down. … The real deal is this: Black youth do not want a relationship with the Jewish community or the mainstream white community or the foot shuffling, head-bowing, knee bobbing black community. … All you Jews can go straight to hell."[5]

"[i]f you feel that you just got to mug somebody because of your hurt and your pain, go to River Oaks and mug you some good white folks. If you’re angry that our brother is put to death, don’t burn down your own community, give these white folks hell from the womb to the tomb."[7]

River Oaks is a high end community in W. Houston.

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it sounds, Geistkrieger as though you and your police force are a leading force of example to others, which is great to see those positives as well because as you say..so much reported by media tends to slant toward negatives as opposed to positives and doesn't show a good balance of any of these things...negative attracts I always think as well, so it grows and grows in how we view things...the vids with the activists taking part are interesting as well, for them to be seeing it from the perspective of the police officers also and the realisation of how little time is involved in loss of life..whether that be the police officers themselves or that person in front of them ...when we comment though, when we have these stories ...?...it tends to be more focusing on 'questionable' killings by officers..ones when it appears that weapons were drawn and fired without any threat being apparent...or even if someone already seems to be disabled of any threat and then shots were still fired....mind you, I can see from the vids that you posted, the extreme importance of compliance as is said in there because a small almost unnoticeable wriggling to us may indeed be a weapon being attempted to be pulled out and used...anyways, we must keep the balance of what police officers are faced with but we also must have questioning and accountability if procedures etc don't appear to have been followed as well...I also loved the vid of the officers playing basketball....and yeah, that balance is important to be actually seen by people, to build the trust as well, rather than building fear and mistrust...

....I also understand what you've said about citizens feeling needs to have weapons themselves ...but isn't that always going to create a 'need a bigger and more powerful one' situation for police to be effective and then weapons breeding more weapons and on and on...so the issue seems to many of us in the UK to be the gun laws themselves...

...anyways your insight has given me many thoughts but I've bolded the last bit because it's something that I particularly completely agree with...communication/listening as well as talking is everything for understanding..and the only real/accurate source of information is the source itself and talking to 'real' people with 'real' although discussions are always good and very much needed as well etc, they won't change anything ..only actions will ever do that... "Be the change you want to see!" is a great slogan and philosophy to have in life...

I've come to the conclusion that our local media can't ever be trusted to deliver news in a constructive manner. National stations/cable is about more about numbers than quality. That's why so many good shows get cancelled .

It's still good though some of these more negative/questionable cases and videos have come to light because clearly the conversation(s) because it will be relevant if the public decides that gun laws need to be changed (and actively vote for it)

I think a large part of the reason our media has gotten out of control really just comes down to our culture. I've read people in the UK think Americans are loud and boorish. It's really true if you watch the national media and watch how people debate important issues.

There are so many opportunities being missed by the public, the media and politicians to discuss the bigger issues but the American ego doesn't really allow for that conversation to happen without making one side submit and having the other dominate party regulate the conversation. Basically, calmly listening to other people's point of views opens you up to being schooled and it's more about yelling over each to get the other to submit... our culture is so overly competitive (to the extent of being boorish at times), even at the expense of having very necessary real conversations.

This video is a good representation of how I see most things handled... both sides are inherently flawed and you could easily school either but because it's 'murica, it's more about the perception of winning than actually being on the winning side... i.e who screams the loudest and schools the bestest

The BLM looks like the loser because he can't properly represent either side, but neither side is really trying to open each other's minds, it's more about screaming over each other trying to control the argument... the kids didn't have a tough opponent so they just let him talk himself into a deep hole. Most "debates" here don't go beyond the surface, it's more about finding the most embarrassing details about the other than to give their ideas any real thought... (not that this conversation has that potential )

Anyway, it is a funny video if you like watching someone debate poorly You can just as easily find one on Trump's side I'm sure

Edit: A typical BLM supporter here may get schooled in this way, but here it's more about staying on-message so they will just ignore the other side and pummel them with messaging until the other side submits, even if the other side is representing the public's side of how the issues need to be resolve... this is a majority of how our politics works sadly and why most of the people being elected now are more loud, boorish characters than calmer and intelligent ones...

Youtube video

[LeatherTrumpet]

well done to that young man schooling that older racist black man

[Maru]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Maru thank you for such detailed descriptions. I think my friend must live on the nicer side of town in Baltimore. She teaches acting at a university and her husband is a professor of music at the same uni.

When you convert dollars to pounds, the house prices, even in expensive areas of the U.S seem very cheap but then I live in London where a mouse hole can easily set you back a £million. What is a regular monthly salary for unskilled workers? In the UK an unskilled basic rate in the UK is around £1,300 a month (abt $1700) before tax and NI

If you want a short answer you should ask, “what’s right about the North Sea” Its cold, unpredictable and often hazardous and the swell tends to get real big!

The Marina is the one of the better parts of Baltimore. It's part of the main town but my husband worked some streets away from there. University of Maryland and John Hopkins are located there as well, so it's not all bad a bad area. The arts and theater district there are a major source of the city's culture. I will say that about MD, they focus a lot on education and the arts. I like that there are so many older buildings there and unique architecture than other places.

The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. I want to say when I worked my first job at that rate full time (40 hrs) many years back my total between the checks was about $700/mo after taxes (w/o health ins). Some states are higher and there's a push here to raise federal. I think the goal is ultimately to raise it to $12-15. At least it would be much closer to a living wage. Maryland's minimum wage is $8.75 per hour now.

Japan's cost of living is similar to UK because of island living. Certain foods, basic things are more expensive since it has to be imported in. My friend's apt in Osaka used to be not much bigger than a walk-in closet...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Maru

Yeah our local one is Quannell X. I read his wikipedia last night because I didn't know his whole backstory (I was living in MD at the time). I'm sure the wikipedia leaves out some positives, but the quotes there are horrid...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanell_X





River Oaks is a high end community in W. Houston.



I've come to the conclusion that our local media can't ever be trusted to deliver news in a constructive manner. National stations/cable is about more about numbers than quality. That's why so many good shows get cancelled .

It's still good though some of these more negative/questionable cases and videos have come to light because clearly the conversation(s) because it will be relevant if the public decides that gun laws need to be changed (and actively vote for it)

I think a large part of the reason our media has gotten out of control really just comes down to our culture. I've read people in the UK think Americans are loud and boorish. It's really true if you watch the national media and watch how people debate important issues.

There are so many opportunities being missed by the public, the media and politicians to discuss the bigger issues but the American ego doesn't really allow for that conversation to happen without making one side submit and having the other dominate party regulate the conversation. Basically, calmly listening to other people's point of views opens you up to being schooled and it's more about yelling over each to get the other to submit... our culture is so overly competitive (to the extent of being boorish at times), even at the expense of having very necessary real conversations.

This video is a good representation of how I see most things handled... both sides are inherently flawed and you could easily school either but because it's 'murica, it's more about the perception of winning than actually being on the winning side... i.e who screams the loudest and schools the bestest

The BLM looks like the loser because he can't properly represent either side, but neither side is really trying to open each other's minds, it's more about screaming over each other trying to control the argument... the kids didn't have a tough opponent so they just let him talk himself into a deep hole. Most "debates" here don't go beyond the surface, it's more about finding the most embarrassing details about the other than to give their ideas any real thought... (not that this conversation has that potential )

Anyway, it is a funny video if you like watching someone debate poorly You can just as easily find one on Trump's side I'm sure

Edit: A typical BLM supporter here may get schooled in this way, but here it's more about staying on-message so they will just ignore the other side and pummel them with messaging until the other side submits, even if the other side is representing the public's side of how the issues need to be resolve... this is a majority of how our politics works sadly and why most of the people being elected now are more loud, boorish characters than calmer and intelligent ones...

Youtube video

...it's that stereotype thing, isn't it Maru...I think that was created back in the day in movies and in the day when the world was much larger/people were far less travelled etc...the Americans so full of confidence as was often portrayed and the 'reserved' English stereotype also...for the most part those stereotypes have been broken because we meet and talk to people from all over the world, but for some they have remained, I think because stereotyping can often stay very fixed...but yeah, I agree in that so many discussions don't seem to be discussions at all because they're only a 'half discussion' really, of speaking but without the listening bit, which is of equal importance...I know it sounds naff but that part is the only way we can grow, by learning ..?...it's not about 'backing down', it's about being given opportunities to re-think and re-visit etc...and screaming opinions at each other is only going to alienate and stunt any communication from becoming possible...that whole thing in the vid ..(the 'debate'..)...was doomed from the off because the only communication was accusation, rather than questioning...and then the conclusion was that education and education and education was needed until we all have the same opinion and the same perspectives.....


...just sadly such a shame of a wasted opportunity in a peaceful protest..which happens all to often sadly...'well you're a racist/you support racism..'...'no, I don't..'...yes you do/no I don't etc...all playground stuff and alienating and nothing being achieved at all in the accusations and defensiveness...


..the last bit is very interesting from your perspective as well because I think that's what many of us have concluded in the UK in trying to understand and fathom Trumpmania...so much vision being shown by Bernie Sanders and yet his campaign did not play the media game, whereas Trump is all about media and all about showmanship...

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Maru

The Marina is the one of the better parts of Baltimore. It's part of the main town but my husband worked some streets away from there. University of Maryland and John Hopkins are located there as well, so it's not all bad a bad area. The arts and theater district there are a major source of the city's culture. I will say that about MD, they focus a lot on education and the arts. I like that there are so many older buildings there and unique architecture than other places.

The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. I want to say when I worked my first job at that rate full time (40 hrs) many years back my total between the checks was about $700/mo after taxes (w/o health ins). Some states are higher and there's a push here to raise federal. I think the goal is ultimately to raise it to $12-15. At least it would be much closer to a living wage. Maryland's minimum wage is $8.75 per hour now.

Japan's cost of living is similar to UK because of island living. Certain foods, basic things are more expensive since it has to be imported in. My friend's apt in Osaka used to be not much bigger than a walk-in closet...

It is John Hopkins he works at, I just couldn’t remember the name (I know its famous in America!)
When the pound is stable, our minimum wage is twice that of yours but like you say, things are more expensive, especially real estate. Rents in London are upwards of a £thousand a month and that’s in the poorer boroughs. You can treble that for the same accommodation in a more upmarket area. Even two salaries on a minimum wage is going to struggle and will almost certainly not qualify for a mortgage.

Food is still relatively cheap here, at least compared to some other European countries but public transport is very expensive and so is parking if you happen to drive.

We think of our medical treatment as free, though we do pay for it through a small portion of our salaries. Prescriptions are £8.40 no matter what the medication and one prescription usually gives you a months supply. People with long term medical issues like diabetes are exempt from paying for prescriptions and if you are unemployed and claiming benefits, over 60 or under 16 (18 if you are still in full time education) you don’t pay for your prescriptions.

What we save in medical costs, you save in affordable mortgages or rent.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

It is John Hopkins he works at, I just couldn’t remember the name (I know its famous in America!)
When the pound is stable, our minimum wage is twice that of yours but like you say, things are more expensive, especially real estate. Rents in London are upwards of a £thousand a month and that’s in the poorer boroughs. You can treble that for the same accommodation in a more upmarket area. Even two salaries on a minimum wage is going to struggle and will almost certainly not qualify for a mortgage.

Food is still relatively cheap here, at least compared to some other European countries but public transport is very expensive and so is parking if you happen to drive.

We think of our medical treatment as free, though we do pay for it through a small portion of our salaries. Prescriptions are £8.40 no matter what the medication and one prescription usually gives you a months supply. People with long term medical issues like diabetes are exempt from paying for prescriptions and if you are unemployed and claiming benefits, over 60 or under 16 (18 if you are still in full time education) you don’t pay for your prescriptions.

What we save in medical costs, you save in affordable mortgages or rent.

2 x min wage will get you a small mortgage here "oop north" but usually only enough for a flat or small 2 bed house and not in the best areas. There are places near me where you could still get a 3-bed semi for £45k (needing a bit of work) but... frankly... not in areas where you would want to raise a child unless you want them to either be stabbed or become an addict.

Medical treatment I would say is essentially free, to be honest. It's paid for through our taxes but do you think for a second we will see a drop in income tax when they finally kill off the NHS? No. We'll be paying private insurance and NOT paying any less tax so for now, for all intents, it is basically free.

All prescriptions are free in Scotland for everyone, although I personally feel that this is a mistake, there are HUGE amounts of waste (people picking up a doctor's prescription "just incase" even though they don't need it, but it's free anyway, and it then just sits in a bathroom cabinet forever.)

Also you didn't mention the huge differences in fuel costs between the UK and the US! The US is something like $2.30 a gallon on average currently... the UK is currently paying $5.85 a gallon and that's at the current "extremely worrying lol" exchange rates with the weakening pound. It's "traditionally" more like $7+ a gallon.

Then again, maybe that starts to even out when you consider that everything here is all jammed together, so we tend not to be regularly driving quite as long distances as people in the US...


No real point to this post btw, just random thoughts I was having while reading yours