[rusticgal]

Renee has been so vocal...stood up to the bullies but she has now become their victim. IMO she has been 'broken'. When she asked Bear to call a truce..she cried saying "she had been mean". Bear didn't bat an eyelid...he enjoyed her tears and didn't show any remorse in his behaviour. To have someone sit by you and cry and not accept any responsibility for how he had pushed her buttons shows a real bully.
He now has her eating out the palm of his hands. Whenever he pays her any kind of compliment she gets tearful...she is now submissive to her 'captor'.

Really sad IMO.

[Vicky.]

Jesus, you really think lowly of Renee?! She is still the same woman she has been since the start, still takes no ****, still the best woman in there by a country mile, only difference is she no longer blanks Bear

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Jesus, you really think lowly of Renee?! She is still the same woman she has been since the start, still takes no ****, still the best woman in there by a country mile, only difference is she no longer blanks Bear

I have liked Renee...a tough cookie and speaks her mind. Bear hasn't changed but IMO she has. Maybe she finds it better for her own sanity to be his friend and not his enemy. I don't blame her...she found it hard not to bite but I think he got the better of her...he just laughed in her face. In different circumstances I think she would have handled it differently..but she is trapped in a house with him...and she has chosen the easy way out. However maybe for her it was the only way to deal with it. I actually feel sorry for her.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

I have liked Renee...a tough cookie and speaks her mind. Bear hasn't changed but IMO she has. Maybe she finds it better for her own sanity to be his friend and not his enemy. I don't blame her...she found it hard not to bite but I think he got the better of her...he just laughed in her face. In different circumstances I think she would have handled it differently..but she is trapped in a house with him...and she has chosen the easy way out. However maybe for her it was the only way to deal with it. I actually feel sorry for her.

...just shoot him?

In real life she probably would have walked away and never had to see him again. Its hard in the house to stay away from those you have a disagreement with. I do think she likes him deep down though which is why she apologized. I also believe the only reason for the freezeout in the first place was because he started shagging Chloe. The minute Chloe left, Renee started softening again

[Maru]

How fun could it really be to continue on with the hate though. He hasn't done enough to her personally for her to warrant holding onto a grudge. That'd make her look like a fool. At the end of the day, she's the one who has to live with it. I think it's convenient they're all changing their opinion, but gameplay-wise she has defused a potential bomb with kindness. He can't continue to goad her on like he was, it'd make me him look like the bully. He's losing his influence in the end. After all, it's the attention he feeds off of, and he uses negativity to get even more attention.

It's also possible that Bear's mask is slipping (nobody can keep that going forever) and they're seeing him more for what he really is than what he portrays i.e. (seeking out camera time and to his tired story line)

Could be a sign his hold is weakening over the house.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Maru

How fun could it really be to continue on with the hate though. He hasn't done enough to her personally for her to warrant holding onto a grudge. That'd make her look like a fool. At the end of the day, she's the one who has to live with it. I think it's convenient they're all changing their opinion, but gameplay-wise she has defused a potential bomb with kindness. He can't continue to goad her on like he was, it'd make me him look like the bully. He's losing his influence in the end. After all, it's the attention he feeds off of, and he uses negativity to get even more attention.

It's also possible that Bear's mask is slipping (nobody can keep that going forever) and they're seeing him more for what he really is than what he portrays i.e. (seeking out camera time and to his tired story line)

Could be a sign his hold is weakening over the house.

I see your point Maru. He can't compete with kindness. Maybe I should give her credit for that. Is that her game?...or is she enjoying the positive attention from him?...because we all know she liked him from the off. I just liked the fact that she really called him out for the selfish prat he is...now she's like his best mate.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

...just shoot him?

In real life she probably would have walked away and never had to see him again. Its hard in the house to stay away from those you have a disagreement with. I do think she likes him deep down though which is why she apologized. I also believe the only reason for the freezeout in the first place was because he started shagging Chloe. The minute Chloe left, Renee started softening again

The doors hadn't closed on Chloe when Renee started fluttering around Bear again, she fancies him, if he was up for it she would be in there ...son or no son watching

[Toy Soldier]

Don't know if people have really been listening to what Renee starts coming out with when really pushed / things start getting intense. She is used to living in a world where men (her father and other family, her partners) call the shots... and she knows it's a weak spot for her. I can't remember in which episode, but she outright stated that at one point.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

I see your point Maru. He can't compete with kindness. Maybe I should give her credit for that. Is that her game?...or is she enjoying the positive attention from him?...because we all know she liked him from the off. I just liked the fact that she really called him out for the selfish prat he is...now she's like his best mate.

I doubt they're best mates, but she is much older than him, so perhaps she feels she's supposed to be the mother. It could be she sees more of a child and she's expected to be the grown person in the room. At the end of the day, Bear is the only one who understands and knows why he does what what does... I think to some degree, they're becoming more intrigued with him because as much as he keeps up a wall, it ironically exposes some core weaknesses (personality-wise) and perhaps they're empathetic to that. He is human after all.

Personally, I detest Bear, but I don't see the point to hate on him in the house? They can't "beat" him, he is what he is. Though if they diffuse his jabs with kindness across the board, it has less of an impact and may ultimately tame the Bear...

I have known some people with horrible personality traits who have done and said very horrible things (but have never hurt anyone physically). They ended up being one of the most flawed and emotional people I've ever met. Had a bully years ago who bullied me badly for years and years when I was a preteen and then when we met again, he was in tears to have been out of contact with me (by my choice) and was very apologetic... he did the same charisma thing Bear does, where he tries to disarm by saying it's all just in fun--all just a joke. He knows he hurt a lot of people, but for whatever reason he felt the need to do it to cover it up. He acknowledged it was insecurities. He felt he had to dismantle me in order to get to know me, but there were emotional issues there and definitely some misogyny and judgement that carried over from his home life.

Bear is definitely very intelligent (though he hides behind jokes and antics) so it's not like there can't be common ground between him and the other HM's. They're only human.

To your question, I think Renee really wants to be liked and though she will stand by her principles, in the very least she doesn't want to walk out of the game feeling like she feels looking back she was a bad person. She may be able to empathize a bit too well with Bear too, because she does hide behind a mask with all that mobster talk and I'm tough as nails talk so maybe they both have more in common than what they've shown us on the show. Her mask slipped, but it did get Bear to let go of the firm grip on his, so maybe it worked out in her favor... I don't think she planned her meltdown, that would be a bit sociopathic.

[reece(:]

Renee knows she's stuck with Bear after the public keep trolling by keeping him in, so she's making the best of a **** situation.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Don't know if people have really been listening to what Renee starts coming out with when really pushed / things start getting intense. She is used to living in a world where men (her father and other family, her partners) call the shots... and she knows it's a weak spot for her. I can't remember in which episode, but she outright stated that at one point.

..yeah I have noticed TS, there is definitely a hierarchy of men being more dominant and having more 'importance' in her world from the things that she says...(and yes I know that she might feel a little womanly attraction with Bear....but I think it's also for instance that with Chloe..?...their behaviour together in the house and Renee's feelings toward it were all directed at Chloe because as a female, she wasn't behaving in a way that Renee approved of, of females to behave and she was very critical and unforgiving of that, whereas with Bear..he's behaved awfully but he's a guy so she's overlooked so much..)...it was really evident as well in her recent conversation with Ricky, when Heavy D was being awful to Katie...she had expected Ricky to 'step up' and defend Katie because that's what men do, rather than it just being the right thing to do when someone was acting like an idiot the way that Heavy was...why would or should Ricky have stepped up and spoke up any more than any one else or any of the females in there if she felt that Katie needed in some way 'protecting'....


...hmm thinking about it actually, there might also be an element of respect for Bear from her even with all of their clashes and confrontations etc of him defending and speaking up for Chloe/'his lady' a few times and that's why she overlooks so much negative in him....

[Amy Jade]

I think it's self preservation at this point, Aubrey has taken the same route in not rising to him and it seems to have worked - he doesn't attack either of them any more.

He gets a bigger rise out of Ricky and Sam now and I think he's intimidated by Aubrey.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

I think it's self preservation at this point, Aubrey has taken the same route in not rising to him and it seems to have worked - he doesn't attack either of them any more.

He gets a bigger rise out of Ricky and Sam now and I think he's intimidated by Aubrey.

..yeah I know that it's been 'oh Renee's fine now that Chloe has gone' etc and there might be an element of that as well..some sort of attraction to him/I don't know..?...but it's also that he hasn't targeted her in the same way anymore either and with Chloe, he's lost the thing that he was taunting her with, so lost a bit of his 'power' over her...

[Vanessa]

She fancies him

[Vanessa]

Rene and Aubrey have both warmed to Bear. They know if he goes they will be bored ****less! in their own words

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Rene and Aubrey have both warmed to Bear. They know if he goes they will be bored ****less! in their own words

...yeah go figure, Vanessa...and there's Frankie in his own words saying how Bear has been winding Heavy D up in his behaviour as well and how it's always Bear who instigates etc...if only females could push to such limits and still entertain in some way by doing so....what a world that would be, eh.....

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...yeah go figure, Vanessa...and there's Frankie in his own words saying how Bear has been winding Heavy D up in his behaviour as well and how it's always Bear who instigates etc...if only females could push to such limits and still entertain in some way by doing so....what a world that would be, eh.....

Frankie is an idiot. Of course everything is Bear fault But Aubrey and Rene know that it's him who is keeping the show alive. Heavy D is responsible for his own actions. No one made him behave the way he did. Bear just found him funny and so did I.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Frankie is an idiot. Of course everything is Bear fault But Aubrey and Rene know that it's him who is keeping the show alive. Heavy D is responsible for his own actions. No one made him behave the way he did. Bear just found him funny and so did I.

...you know that I love you dearly, Vanessa......but I have the feeling that anyone speaking out against Bear would be an 'idiot'...

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...you know that I love you dearly, Vanessa......but I have the feeling that anyone speaking out against Bear would be an 'idiot'...

They blame Bear for everything in there. It's starting to piss me off.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

She fancies him

I think you are right there Vanessa.
She is, I think, now more relaxed as to him now since Chloe has gone.

[Ellen]

Renee and Aubrey are sticking to Baby Bear simply because they believe he is popular on the outside.

[hot2go]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

...just shoot him?

In real life she probably would have walked away and never had to see him again. Its hard in the house to stay away from those you have a disagreement with. I do think she likes him deep down though which is why she apologized. I also believe the only reason for the freezeout in the first place was because he started shagging Chloe. The minute Chloe left, Renee started softening again

I think the same and I like them both....she always liked Bear....I think about the type of woman she is and I think what other male housemate would she prefer ? She has more respect for Bear than she would ever have for Ricky, James or Lewis.
Like you I def don't see a woman who has been brow beaten into submission by Bear either ...no way

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Frankie is an idiot. Of course everything is Bear fault But Aubrey and Rene know that it's him who is keeping the show alive. Heavy D is responsible for his own actions. No one made him behave the way he did. Bear just found him funny and so did I.

Frankie is far from an idiot, his summations in the DR have been spot on, and even when Aubrey and Renee were singing Bears praises last night he spoke up, Frankie ftw

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Frankie is far from an idiot, his summations in the DR have been spot on, and even when Aubrey and Renee were singing Bears praises last night he spoke up, Frankie ftw

He blames everything on Bear. How original! Even when others do something wrong it's still Bears fault.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Frankie is far from an idiot, his summations in the DR have been spot on, and even when Aubrey and Renee were singing Bears praises last night he spoke up, Frankie ftw

Frankie is my fave at the moment along with James,and yes Frankie was the only one who was true to himself in the DR for not going along with Aubrey and Renee wanting to keep Bear in !!! what the hell was that all about?