[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The NHS will fall and the (let me be blunt) ****ing idiots who have bought into the Tory-designed orchestration of its demise will not only not care, they will cheer. Until they get cancer 30 years later, and their family ends up living in crippling debt at the hands of a US-style private healthcare system. If they can afford anything beyond the most basic treatment, at all. And then they'll rage into the sky, "This is wrong! Why is it like this?? Healthcare should be for everyone!" but it won't be and they will die.

The NHS is not destroying itself. Junior Doctors are not destroying the NHS. Nurses aren't. Patients aren't. Even the NHS bureaucrats (although yes there are too many penpushers) aren't destroying the NHS.

The Tories are deliberately and systematically sabotaging the NHS so that it can be dismantled for personal profit. And that is the whole story. This is obvious, there is abundant evidence (and no I'm not going to spoonfeed it to you, don't be ****ing lazy), and yet people still just aren't getting it. And won't get it, until it's too late. Or probably at all. They'll get their cancer in 30 years and say "Waaah we used to have the NHS but those Junior Doctors ruined everything!", because people will buy whatever bull**** is crammed into their slavering mush.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by AProducer'sWetDream

But they are protecting patients in the long run. If this contract is imposed, patients will be much less safe.

absolute fiction

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How will ending the junior doctors strike provide physios or OTs on a weekend? Your mother receives two home visits a day that is a fantastic level of care of which many would be over the moon with.
I'm wondering if what she has done is something family could help with? it would free up a valuable visit.

It's so tiresome having to explain these things, but here we go...

I mentioned physios and OTs because people are saying that the NHS is already a 24 hour service which it is not.

Two visits by two different nurses when one visit to do two things would have been enough is madness and it's typical of the bloody shambles that is the NHS.

It is nothing whatsoever to do with you to suggest that my mother's treatment could be carried out by the family. What a ****ing nerve....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

absolute fiction

Let's trust the minister who wrote a book about the privatisation of the NHS then?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

With both my kids having congenital conditions I just daren't envisage this

Maybe your family could help with the treatment and free up a nurse.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Maybe your family could help with the treatment and free up a nurse.

They don't require a nurse just an annual consultant appointment for now.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's so tiresome having to explain these things, but here we go...

I mentioned physios and OTs because people are saying that the NHS is already a 24 hour service which it is not.

Two visits by two different nurses when one visit to do two things would have been enough is madness and it's typical of the bloody shambles that is the NHS.

It is nothing whatsoever to do with you to suggest that my mother's treatment could be carried out by the family. What a ****ing nerve....

If you don't wish to discuss things a discussion forum is mot the best place for you is it?

Again regardless of what happens to the contracts it won't impact on any other service, junior doctors do work 7 days however therefore their service is 24/7.

It was not designed to cause offence at all, they may have separate specialisms perhaps?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you don't wish to discuss things a discussion forum is mot the best place for you is it?

Again regardless of what happens to the contracts it won't impact on any other service, junior doctors do work 7 days however therefore their service is 24/7.

It was not designed to cause offence at all, they may have separate specialisms perhaps?

Actually, it was something one nurse could have done in one visit. THEY said that, not me. District nurses are rushed off their feet at the best of times so it would help if they, or whoever does the rotas, could be a bit more organised.

I used my mother's experience as an anecdotal reference which was valid. It's not your business whether she needs nursing care or the family could do it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Actually, it was something one nurse could have done in one visit. THEY said that, not me. District nurses are rushed off their feet at the best of times so it would help if they, or whoever does the rotas, could be a bit more organised.

I used my mother's experience as an anecdotal reference which was valid. It's not your business whether she needs nursing care or the family could do it.

One error is not indicative of a failing service.

You have made that clear, by asking me the same was that you making that point or just being facetious?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

One error is not indicative of a failing service.

You have made that clear, by asking me the same was that you making that point or just being facetious?

If it was one error that would be amazing. But is isn't... It's been a series of ridiculous **** ups. For instance, she's been prescribed Warfarin when her stroke was due to a bleed, not a clot, and Warfarin could have killed her. Luckily, the family spotted it. There's been a whole host of mistakes that've come one after another.

That was me making a point. Obviously.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

If it was one error that would be amazing. But is isn't... It's been a series of ridiculous **** ups. For instance, she's been prescribed Warfarin when her stroke was due to a bleed, not a clot, and Warfarin could have killed her. Luckily, the family spotted it. There's been a whole host of mistakes that've come one after another.

That was me making a point. Obviously.

But again how is the imposition of the junior drs contracts to remedy this?

[the truth]

Junior doctors do not cover weekends to anywhere near the same amount of working hours. That is partly why weekend service is sub standard. To say otherwise is a lie

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by AProducer'sWetDream

But they are protecting patients in the long run. If this contract is imposed, patients will be much less safe.

That is absolutely correct, the Junior Doctors know that, we do not and the govt. that does nothing as to work in hospitals does not either.

The Junior Doctors know this is a dangerous contract as to real 'quality' care of patients, that is why they are so against it.

Anything can look like it will work in theory, the practice of it is often a very different outcome.

The Junior Doctors further know, if patients suffer even more than now,after the imposition of this contract, then they will be the ones being blamed for the errors and things being overlooked.

Incredible to me, how so few blame the government handling of this and are so eager it appears to see public support for the Doctors to slip away.
If this was a Labour govt. 'forcing' a contract on the Junior Doctors,the criticism of that govt would be deafening probably on here.
Deafening from me too would it be as to whatever govt was in power,as for me the imposing of this contract is utterly wrong.

If it goes ahead,and is imposed against the will of the Junior Doctors, I do sadly hope that more and more Junior Doctors then throw in the towel and leave the English NHS, taking their badly needed skills and caring elsewhere, to a far more appreciative people and nation, rather than this one.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

But again how is the imposition of the junior drs contracts to remedy this?

It isn't Kizzy, it will not remedy anything, all it will create is more suspicion and disillusionment.

You are right, you are possibly wasting your time my friend but the very best of luck in your decent quest in trying to get that point across as how bad this imposing of the contract will be.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That is absolutely correct, the Junior Doctors know that, we do not and the govt. that does nothing as to work in hospitals does not either.

The Junior Doctors know this is a dangerous contract as to real 'quality' care of patients, that is why they are so against it.

Anything can look like it will work in theory, the practice of it is often a very different outcome.

The Junior Doctors further know, if patients suffer even more than now,after the imposition of this contract, then they will be the ones being blamed for the errors and things being overlooked.

Incredible to me, how so few blame the government handling of this and are so eager it appears to see public support for the Doctors to slip away.
If this was a Labour govt. 'forcing' a contract on the Junior Doctors,the criticism of that govt would be deafening probably on here.
Deafening from me too would it be as to whatever govt was in power,as for me the imposing of this contract is utterly wrong.

If it goes ahead,and is imposed against the will of the Junior Doctors, I do sadly hope that more and more Junior Doctors then throw in the towel and leave the English NHS, taking their badly needed skills and caring elsewhere, to a far more appreciative people and nation, rather than this one.

it is absolutely incorrect as Ive explained to you 101 times before...junior doctors work 19 hours less hours maximum per week on this contract than the old one. FACT. this contract simply spreads the weekend workload between more junior doctors. the junior doctors strike is purely about money, they want double time at weekends. simple.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

it is absolutely incorrect as Ive explained to you 101 times before...junior doctors work 19 hours less hours maximum per week on this contract than the old one. FACT. this contract simply spreads the weekend workload between more junior doctors. the junior doctors strike is purely about money, they want double time at weekends. simple.

It isn't and I know it isn't,which is why 2 of my Cousins who were Junior Doctors, have now left the NHS in England and are moving abroad now.
They were only concerned as to the welfare of the Patients long term and felt under this contract, they would be too far stretched with even less time for quality care too.

You and I do not agree on this issue and haven't all through however I always respect and should respect,that you have had really bad experiences as to the NHS in the past.

I do though know personally my Cousins, none of whom are greedy and just wanting more money.

However, they are 2, with 2 more to follow, who have now joined those who already have left the NHS and many others will follow if this contract is in fact imposed on Doctors.
If anyone really believes that will actually help the NHS or make for a much better 7 day service, a big shock as to that is more than likely now coming.
Once those Doctors are gone and are fully appreciated elsewhere, respect for their caring and skill coming then will be too late from those in England.
Very, very sadly in my view.

[the truth]

the do gooders who claim to be the only group who really care for the nhs , said nothing about the absurd doctors contract in 2004 under new labour,, which let 90% of GP's off all out of hours work? why are they so silent on that? dont you think its high time that contract was ripped up and they started covering some of these hours?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

the do gooders who claim to be the only group who really care for the nhs , said nothing about the absurd doctors contract in 2004 under new labour,, which let 90% of GP's off all out of hours work? why are they so silent on that? dont you think its high time that contract was ripped up and they started covering some of these hours?

I criticised Labour a lot as to the NHS too,very heavily from 2006.

I wasn't on here then, Labour should have built up and ensured protection for the NHS but did not do so, they should have ensured privatisation would have been near impossible.

However, Labour I doubt would be trying to, or would in any way get away with at all, imposing this contract on Junior Doctors.

Labour disappointed me too as to not dealing with the waste from NHS managers in the NHS, to me they are like parasites as to the NHS.

Back to this issue however, this govt. has handled this terribly, what the govt. are doing in threatening to 'impose' this contract is simply wrong and for that the Junior Doctors have my support and always will.
This is a crisis, in my opinion,of this goverment's making not the Junior Doctors at all.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

the do gooders who claim to be the only group who really care for the nhs , said nothing about the absurd doctors contract in 2004 under new labour,, which let 90% of GP's off all out of hours work? why are they so silent on that? dont you think its high time that contract was ripped up and they started covering some of these hours?

It makes sense for GP surgeries to be open weekends. It could work here quite well as we have 8 separate doctors under one surgery and a couple could cover mainly weekends, or split it all equally. What wouldn't be acceptable was to expect those 8 GPs to still do the hours they currently do and forcing them to cover weekends too..and maybe take a paycut, which is the way it would likely be pushed onto them. And then people would support the government in that too as it would be the 'greedy GPs who don't want to work weekends' rather than people looking at it objectively

On a side note, our surgery trialed half day opening on a Saturday not long ago..its over now but I do wonder what came of it. Will mention it on thursday when I am next there as I imagine it was popular. Would definitely take the pressure off A&E though if this was more widespread

Also I said nothing about the GP contracts in 2004 as I knew **** all about politics back then and didn't even know anything about the contract you speak about

[the truth]

Look it up please it's insane

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by the truth

the people leading this disgusting revolt which will result in the deaths of 1000s of innocent people just to get the millionare doctors even more cash and time off at weekends need to be replaced asap...they are scum

The millionaire doctors are not the junior doctors. That is the senior staff.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

The millionaire doctors are not the junior doctors. That is the senior staff.

Juniors have been doctors for a decade or more. Many are millions airs

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by the truth

Juniors have been doctors for a decade or more. Many are millions airs

How much do you think doctors actually earn, Truth? A Junior doctor working for 10 years and saving EVERY SINGLE PENNY is unlikely to have £500k, let alone a million. And then there's those pesky things like rent, clothes and food chipping away at the balance.

6 figure salaries start at MUCH more senior grades.

[Tom4784]

Millionaire junior doctors

Oh Truth, sometimes I love you.

[the truth]

It's true some do private . Many have been doctors over 10 yrs plus enormous overtime ...some earn over £200k per annum in overtime