[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

Hands up who wants serious debates to go back to being about debates, instead of incessant trolling and bickering?

I've got to go record another song for the Music thread now, because you have inspired me Liv:

...... "To dream the impossible dream.... "

[Kizzy]

Sigh... the baiting and trolling has worsened here, I'll just patiently wait for you both to stop before I continue with the thread.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Sigh... the baiting and trolling has worsened here, I'll just patiently wait for you both to stop before I continue with the thread.

there is nothing to continue, the answer is no one cares about the "march"

[Kizzy]

You may not feel there is however I do, if you don't wish to be part of the discussion then that's fine.

[Cherie]

There isn't any point reporting it as the deal is done, there was some uncertainly while we waited for a new PM as to how he/she would proceed, but it's now been confirmed there won't be a new referendum and there won't be a GE, even if there was to be a new reffo I think the result would be more or less the same with the percentages being very close in favour of one side or the other, if the "ins" won what would that achieve just more arguing, we made the decision and now we must get on with it, a lot of people on both sides didn't actually know what they were voting for, a friend of mine got off a plane in Alicante last week and the majority of the plane headed to the non EU customs queue that's what we are dealing with

[Kizzy]

Well exactly, that's what the issue appears to be now more than wanting a new referendum, protesting about the misinformation and the subterfuge surrounding brexit then and now.
Being assured there would be discussions in parliament and then we discover there will be no discussions... so why the secrecy? what will the brexit terms be?
How democratic is a process where decisions are made that have not been debated on?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Cherie

There isn't any point reporting it as the deal is done, there was some uncertainly while we waited for a new PM as to how he/she would proceed, but it's now been confirmed there won't be a new referendum and there won't be a GE, even if there was to be a new reffo I think the result would be more or less the same with the percentages being very close in favour of one side or the other, if the "ins" won what would that achieve just more arguing, we made the decision and now we must get on with it, a lot of people on both sides didn't actually know what they were voting for, a friend of mine got off a plane in Alicante last week and the majority of the plane headed to the non EU customs queue that's what we are dealing with

PERFECTLY articulated Cherie. There REALLY is no more to be said.

The Referendum is history. Those who do not like the the Democratic decision will just have to lump it.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well exactly, that's what the issue appears to be now more than wanting a new referendum, protesting about the misinformation and the subterfuge surrounding brexit then and now.
Being assured there would be discussions in parliament and then we discover there will be no discussions... so why the secrecy? what will the brexit terms be?
How democratic is a process where decisions are made that have not been debated on?

I didn't think we had been assured of discussions in parliament, I know they were called for after the vote, maybe I missed those assurances, who knows what the terms will be, it makes no difference now as we can't vote back in as we won't be given the option I'm told people are working behind the scenes to garner the best deal, who knows if that's true or not, the whole thing is a shambles

[LeatherTrumpet]

the state of them

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I didn't think we had been assured of discussions in parliament, I know they were called for after the vote, maybe I missed those assurances, who knows what the terms will be, it makes no difference now as we can't vote back in as we won't be given the option I'm told people are working behind the scenes to garner the best deal, who knows if that's true or not, the whole thing is a shambles

Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)

May I begin by thanking the Foreign Secretary for welcoming me to this new job? It is right to say that we are compact team, but we have the advantage of being made up of two blessed difficult women, and so we are formidable and up for the task. If rumours of promotion are true, this may be my final session with him before he takes another job. It would seem that everyone is in flux. He has a reputation of being a formidable but approachable Minister to shadow, so I will be sorry if our acquaintance is so brief.

The Foreign Secretary rightly said that he has given assurances that he will consult Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar on the Government’s negotiating strategy for Brexit prior to triggering article 50. Will those assurances also apply in respect of Her Majesty’s Opposition, to ensure that the needs and concerns of the communities we represent are reflected as the Government develop their negotiating strategy?

Mr Hammond


First, I am surprised to hear the hon. Lady saying that she expects promotion. I thought that those in the Labour party who were expecting promotion threw their hat in the ring yesterday—perhaps she is going to be a late entrant to that competition. On the substance of her question, of course there will be extensive discussion about all these issues in Parliament. The Opposition will have an opportunity to present their views, and we shall listen carefully to them.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/common...alNegotiations

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

the state of them

There are plenty of countries which remain as part of the EU for them to migrate to if they cannot accept democracy here.

Well, for now there is - until the whole EU disintegrates shortly, that is.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Kirk is right, people have been ground down by uncaring politics and are now submissive and subservient, and so not interested in things like marches and protests.

That's what you were saying, right Kirk?

these protests are often mindless
just a large bunch of people chating the same mindless slogan for 8 hours?
that is the same pack mentality that spat at fellow miners who dared to go to work to earn a living for their families

[Kizzy]

Not everyone accepts being lied to on such a fundamental issue as sovereignty though.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Not everyone accepts being lied to on such a fundamental issue as sovereignty though.

The head of Remain, DC


Question: "will you resign if you lose?"

Answer: "No"


Loses, resigns

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

these protests are often mindless
just a large bunch of people chating the same mindless slogan for 8 hours?
that is the same pack mentality that spat at fellow miners who dared to go to work to earn a living for their families

And how are those mining communities today that were given assurances of prosperity and jobs following the crushing of their industry?....

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And how are those mining communities today that were given assurances of prosperity and jobs following the crushing of their industry?....

destroyed by the extremes on both sides....as usual the failure to engage listen communicate and compromise brought upon total destruction....the first rule of conflict resolution is simply that all parties agree that the solution lies somewhere between the extreme views

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The head of Remain, DC


Question: "will you resign if you lose?"

Answer: "No"


Loses, resigns

Yes his heart was truly in it, as was Theresa Mays clearly as she steers the runaway brexit train

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

destroyed by the extremes on both sides....as usual the failure to engage listen communicate and compromise brought upon total destruction....the first rule of conflict resolution is simply that all parties agree that the solution lies somewhere between the extreme views

They were lied to, there was no alternative and were persecuted and blacklisted.
How can fighting to keep your job be an extreme view?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)

May I begin by thanking the Foreign Secretary for welcoming me to this new job? It is right to say that we are compact team, but we have the advantage of being made up of two blessed difficult women, and so we are formidable and up for the task. If rumours of promotion are true, this may be my final session with him before he takes another job. It would seem that everyone is in flux. He has a reputation of being a formidable but approachable Minister to shadow, so I will be sorry if our acquaintance is so brief.

The Foreign Secretary rightly said that he has given assurances that he will consult Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, London and Gibraltar on the Government’s negotiating strategy for Brexit prior to triggering article 50. Will those assurances also apply in respect of Her Majesty’s Opposition, to ensure that the needs and concerns of the communities we represent are reflected as the Government develop their negotiating strategy?

Mr Hammond


First, I am surprised to hear the hon. Lady saying that she expects promotion. I thought that those in the Labour party who were expecting promotion threw their hat in the ring yesterday—perhaps she is going to be a late entrant to that competition. On the substance of her question, of course there will be extensive discussion about all these issues in Parliament. The Opposition will have an opportunity to present their views, and we shall listen carefully to them.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/common...alNegotiations

Maybe it will be discussed then? I was under the impression no negotiations would take place until Article 50 is triggered, what comes first the chicken or the egg,

[Kizzy]

No, that's the whole point of the protests... the fact that in July it was stated there would be discussions and then come august that assurance was reneged on.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Its generally accepted that TM is running a good ship

There is no alternative anyroad

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its generally accepted that TM is running a good ship

There is no alternative anyroad

Ah well that's the end of the discussion for you then.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No, that's the whole point of the protests... the fact that in July it was stated there would be discussions and then come august that assurance was reneged on.

I'm completely confused I thought no deals would be made until Article 50 was triggered, it's not like the UK can out terms the EU are in the driving seat vroom vroom

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

They were lied to, there was no alternative and were persecuted and blacklisted.
How can fighting to keep your job be an extreme view?

lol I live in a minining community both sides lied and bullied like hell, the unions were just as guilty as maggie thatcher milk snatcher...these morons couldnt find a compromise if it slapped them in the face. they needed to compromise and concentrate all the best miners in the best most economic pits with bigger wider shafts too. instead of the crazy stand off we got. it was so obvious thatcher would stock pile coal and drive the coal men to breaking point. but the macho unions leaders were more concerned with their own egos than the long term prospect of old king coal

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

lol I live in a minining community both sides lied and bullied like hell, the unions were just as guilty as maggie thatcher milk snatcher...these morons couldnt find a compromise if it slapped them in the face. they needed to compromise and concentrate all the best miners in the best most economic pits with bigger wider shafts too. instead of the crazy stand off we got. it was so obvious thatcher would stock pile coal and drive the coal men to breaking point. but the macho unions leaders were more concerned with their own egos than the long term prospect of old king coal

How about you start a thread and we'll continue this discussion there?