[Josy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I wonder how another vote now would effect the people in Scotland in terms of possibly further dividing and being counter productive, no matter what the vote outcome...with the Scottish Independent vote, I recall listening to some stories from someone on another forum of how communities/even families were split in the force of their passion, some being shunned because of how they intended to vote....anyway as a general, I don't think that low morale etc and feeling deflated which many feel atm, is a time to make important decisions such as this../a time to vote on something like this which is the rub really...I think that was some of the thing with Brexit as well...the immigration crisis/extreme terror attacks etc and some votes made with a feeling of helplessness and loss of control/fear and feeling that Brexiting would get the control back...but all it's really done (for the moment..)..is added a divide into the mix and added ore negative feelings, which is never a good thing because a country has to be strong and united for such steps....I just don't think that 'reactionary voting' is good sound voting in the results it brings and especially something as important as this....not a decision that I would want to face in the upcoming anyway..I try not to even go clothes shopping when I'm feeling grumpy because I know that thing will just sit in my wardrobe with....what the heck was I thinking....

It was pretty bad last time round Ammi, so will probably be the same if not worse, laughable really them harping on about wanting the best for Scotland at the same time dividing the country.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Josy

It was pretty bad last time round Ammi, so will probably be the same if not worse, laughable really them harping on about wanting the best for Scotland at the same time dividing the country.

..yeah that's what I was thinking, I can't see anything but negatives with this../an adding to the negative feelings atm...(which I do understand those feelings of helplessness in a vote outcome that many feel so against..)...if the outcome was Independence, then how does the divide go for that to happen and be possible anyway..?...just the vote itself last time seemed to cause such community and neighbour divides and also aggressive acts..this lady even had members of her own family turn against her because of her stance not being the same as hers....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I love xenophobia

We noticed

[James]

It annoys me that the SNP have been going on so much about xenophobia and being internationalist, when the whole purpose of their party is to cause a division and put up barriers.

I think the pro-EU internationalist angle is just a politically convenient tactic for them to use at the moment.

[LeatherTrumpet]

DOnt forget this is a consultation bill. Scottish people voted in the SNP by quite a bit and i think they know what they are about so dont just focus on Nicola - she is the democratically elected leader of a voting majority of Scottish people.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

We noticed

[Northern Monkey]

I don't see the problem.If Scotland want to go it alone then cool.I think it'd be better to have a vote to see if the Scottish people actually want another referendum though.It's a democratic country after all.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I don't see the problem.If Scotland want to go it alone then cool.I think it'd be better to have a vote to see if the Scottish people actually want another referendum though.It's a democratic country after all.

Do you not think electing (again) and SNP government rather makes that null?

[Niamh.]

LT would you want out of the UK?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

LT would you want out of the UK?

Yes, having a country like England which is 10x bigger than the next in the union and having the government in London is not ideal and rest assured if Scotland was England and England was Scotland, English folks would be feeling the same

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Yes, having a country like England which is 10x bigger than the next in the union and having the government in London is not ideal and rest assured if Scotland was England and England was Scotland, English folks would be feeling the same

Yeah I can imagine especially listening to alot of the pro brexit comments actually, it was a similar thing, not wanting to be told what to do by Europe

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Do you not think electing (again) and SNP government rather makes that null?

You don't know all the reasons that people voted the SNP in though.Yes they are a nationalist party but the last Scottish referendum told us that Scotland wanted to stay in the UK.It seems that nationalism is'nt the sole reason the SNP are doing so well but maybe disillusionment with the Westminster old boys.There may not be appetite in Scotland as a whole to go through all the divides that a referendum creates.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

You don't know all the reasons that people voted the SNP in though.Yes they are a nationalist party but the last Scottish referendum told us that Scotland wanted to stay in the UK.It seems that nationalism is'nt the sole reason the SNP are doing so well but maybe disillusionment with the Westminster old boys.There may not be appetite in Scotland as a whole to go through all the divides that a referendum creates.

Yes it helps to have politicians who people respect up here and who dont tell lies and who dont have their noses in the trough

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by James

It annoys me that the SNP have been going on so much about xenophobia and being internationalist, when the whole purpose of their party is to cause a division and put up barriers.

I think the pro-EU internationalist angle is just a politically convenient tactic for them to use at the moment.

I don't see the SNP threatening to deport EU citizens who have made a life for themselves in the UK like the the Tories are. Wanting independence for your country isn't xenophobia at all.

[Johnnyuk123]

Lets keep voting until we get the result i want. That's Scotland's idea of democracy.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Yes it helps to have politicians who people respect up here and who dont tell lies and who dont have their noses in the trough

Scotland and you Scots are in the same position we 'poor' Northerners have been in for centuries.

London is a Foreign Country to us.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah I can imagine especially listening to alot of the pro brexit comments actually, it was a similar thing, not wanting to be told what to do by Europe

They do have their own government.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

They do have their own government.

Does who have their own government?

[Niamh.]

Sorry I misread your post Jaxie. You mean Scotland have their own government? that makes it even more similar to Britain and Europe, doesn't it? Britain have their own government but felt that the EU were dictating to them too much

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sorry I misread your post Jaxie. You mean Scotland have their own government? that makes it even more similar to Britain and Europe, doesn't it? Britain have their own government but felt that the EU were dictating to them too much

and you can bet your last euro that if the tables were turned and Scotland was where England is the English would be after independence!

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Does who have their own government?

Scotland. Their government has control over its own spending. Scotland has free prescriptions, England, Wales and NI don't. Scotland have free University education. Due to the Barnett formula more is spent on each Scottish person than any country in the union. Scotland is hardly an oppressed entity under the jackboots of Westminster.

From a personal stand point for my whole life we've been family and I'd hate see hundreds of years of family history end but if Scotland chose to go I doubt it would in reality make a lot of difference to me in England. I do think though that Scotland would struggle. All the welfare, free prescriptions, free university education, they already overspend, how would they continue as they are? If they lost all that, they would not be happy with the dear old SNP.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Scotland. Their government has control over its own spending. Scotland has free prescriptions, England, Wales and NI don't. Scotland have free University education. Due to the Barnett formula more is spent on each Scottish person than any country in the union. Scotland is hardly an oppressed entity under the jackboots of Westminster.

From a personal stand point for my whole life we've been family and I'd hate see hundreds of years of family history end but if Scotland chose to go I doubt it would in reality make a lot of difference to me in England. I do think though that Scotland would struggle. All the welfare, free prescriptions, free university education, they already overspend, how would they continue as they are? If they lost all that, they would not be happy with the dear old SNP.

Yeah, I misread your post, I answered it above. I won't get into a debate about Scottish politics because I really don't know enough about it. I was just saying that the two situations (Scottish Independence/Brexit) seemed kind of similar to me

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Scotland. Their government has control over its own spending. Scotland has free prescriptions, England, Wales and NI don't. Scotland have free University education. Due to the Barnett formula more is spent on each Scottish person than any country in the union. Scotland is hardly an oppressed entity under the jackboots of Westminster.

From a personal stand point for my whole life we've been family and I'd hate see hundreds of years of family history end but if Scotland chose to go I doubt it would in reality make a lot of difference to me in England. I do think though that Scotland would struggle. All the welfare, free prescriptions, free university education, they already overspend, how would they continue as they are? If they lost all that, they would not be happy with the dear old SNP.

You do realise that England also still has a massive budget deficit... Right?

[Josy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

DOnt forget this is a consultation bill. Scottish people voted in the SNP by quite a bit and i think they know what they are about so dont just focus on Nicola - she is the democratically elected leader of a voting majority of Scottish people.

The voting majority of Scotland also wanted to remain part of the UK but that gets ignored so the snp can continue with thier one and only agenda.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, I misread your post, I answered it above. I won't get into a debate about Scottish politics because I really don't know enough about it. I was just saying that the two situations (Scottish Independence/Brexit) seemed kind of similar to me

I view it differently. If Scotland had voted for independence they wouldn't have been forced to run the same referendum over and over until we got the decision we wanted. The way Ireland was forced over the Lisbon treaty. Imo shamefully undemocratic. We'd never take their pensions away in austerity. The way the EU has treated Greece chills my bones.