[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

Nothing to do with this thread but speaking of Dubai, I saw this story last week.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7426421.html

wow that's horrific and the two accused were allowed to leave the country but she wasn't. It's disgusting

[Brother Leon]

Learning prayers in R.E? What a shock.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

wow that's horrific and the two accused were allowed to leave the country but she wasn't. It's disgusting

Unfortunately women get a horrible deal under muslim law. In some countries women can be killed for so called honour crimes and the men get away with it. A deal is done between families, often money changes hands. The low value of a female life. At least this British lady will have her embassy to fight for her, imagine what it's like for a girl who doesn't.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Dubai is the only country I know abit about in the Middle East. One of my cousins has kids there too and she's always putting pictures of them up on FB, they wear a uniform for school and it looks like a normal school uniform. Infact I just checked her account and she's put a photo up of them all on a beach there where there was some sort of after sports picnic going on. It looks no different to a beach scene you would see in Spain or whatever, both boys/girls/women/men wearing normal beach stuff

Yeh, I had to wear a shirt and tie there and I was probably one of the most overdressed people ere, I think even the locals thought I was a twat. But I did go to the beach a few times, looked similar to any other beach that I've been too, only difference being people (of both genders) were walking around with exotic animals trying to sell you a cool photograph.
I wasnt aware of this 'everyone in dubai wears 50 layers from head to toe' stereotype. Of course they dont, its like the hottest country in the world!

[Livia]

Learning about a religion does not include memorising verses and prayers and to get kids to recite this aloud in this climate is cynical. And they wonder why the Right is rising in Germany. Can you imagine the furore that would ensue if they got Muslims to recite aloud a Jewish blessing and then claim it was just part of the lesson?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Learning about a religion does not include memorising verses and prayers and to get kids to recite this aloud in this climate is cynical. And they wonder why the Right is rising in Germany. Can you imagine the furore that would ensue if they got Muslims to recite aloud a Jewish blessing and then claim it was just part of the lesson?

I agree with this, I'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I agree with this, I'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

I completely agree. School should be secular. I did bible study and Hebrew in my own time and that's how it should be.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by livia

learning about a religion does not include memorising verses and prayers and to get kids to recite this aloud in this climate is cynical. And they wonder why the right is rising in germany. Can you imagine the furore that would ensue if they got muslims to recite aloud a jewish blessing and then claim it was just part of the lesson?

absolutely this ^.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by niamh.

i agree with this, i'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

and absolutely this ^.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I agree with this, I'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

That's just as bad, if not worse though. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated with religion (and, ideally, things like political views too), more encouraged to think critically for themselves and come to their own conclusions either way.

Faith schools should be outlawed completely but I'm always on the fence when it comes to teaching religion as a subject, I can see both pros and cons. I always remember our Sociology class in Sixth Form asking our quite obviously atheist teacher why he taught RE to lower school, and he just responded with something like 'because the more you know about it, the more you realise how much **** it all is, and how to argue against it'. Made me think

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I agree with this, I'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

I agree with this 100%. I don't think faith schools should be allowed. Religion has no real place in education.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Jack_

That's just as bad, if not worse though. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated with religion (and, ideally, things like political views too), more encouraged to think critically for themselves and come to their own conclusions either way.

Faith schools should be outlawed completely but I'm always on the fence when it comes to teaching religion as a subject, I can see both pros and cons. I always remember our Sociology class in Sixth Form asking our quite obviously atheist teacher why he taught RE to lower school, and he just responded with something like 'because the more you know about it, the more you realise how much **** it all is, and how to argue against it'. Made me think

I agree with the points which you make in your post Jack and I used to think almost identically to you, but now I believe that ALL Religious Instruction AND Education should be totally banned fro all schools, except for dedicated Faith Schools - and even here it should only be allowed under the most rigorous of 'policing' by the Education Authorities.

I have had my mind changed by the increasing cases of schools 'conditioning' pupils and 'brainwashing' them into Religious Fundamentalism and Anti-Western propaganda - even in once traditional secular schools.

Oldknow Academy in Birmingham springs to mind.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I agree with this 100%. I don't think faith schools should be allowed. Religion has no real place in education.

I agree. Education is about teaching facts. Religion is about a belief, not fact.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by BuddyTheElf

That's just as bad, if not worse though. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated with religion (and, ideally, things like political views too), more encouraged to think critically for themselves and come to their own conclusions either way.

Faith schools should be outlawed completely but I'm always on the fence when it comes to teaching religion as a subject, I can see both pros and cons. I always remember our Sociology class in Sixth Form asking our quite obviously atheist teacher why he taught RE to lower school, and he just responded with something like 'because the more you know about it, the more you realise how much **** it all is, and how to argue against it'. Made me think

I don't see anything wrong with teaching it as a subject tbh. As long as its in a 'some people believe' type setting rather than being taught as truth. I have often wondered if faith schools teach science accurately...I am another who completely disagrees with faith schools. Education and religion should be kept separate. I am also kind of against bringing kids up strictly as a certain religion as the child should really have a choice about stuff like that. However I say that as someone who got my daughter christened so am slightly hypocritical Neither me nor my husband is religious though..not even totally sure why we did it but we are not raising her as Christian..its up to her when shes older

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't see anything wrong with teaching it as a subject tbh. As long as its in a 'some people believe' type setting rather than being taught as truth. I have often wondered if faith schools teach science accurately...I am another who completely disagrees with faith schools. Education and religion should be kept separate. I am also kind of against bringing kids up strictly as a certain religion as the child should really have a choice about stuff like that. However I say that as someone who got my daughter christened so am slightly hypocritical Neither me nor my husband is religious though..not even totally sure why we did it but we are not raising her as Christian..its up to her when shes older

I think sometimes with baptism it's family pressure/expectation/not wanting to disappoint. I know my mother and mother in law were very keen for me to do it, even though neither had been inside a church apart from family weddings and baptisms. It was quite hard to resist the pressure.

[Alf]

Hasn't the World changed?

When I was in primary School, is all we shouted was "Block 1 2 3" or "All join on if you wanna play bulldogs, no girls allowed"

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Alf

Hasn't the World changed?

When I was in primary School, is all we shouted was "Block 1 2 3" or "All join on if you wanna play bulldogs, no girls allowed"

Ha.That sounds very much like my school.Now it's 'Allah snackbarrrr!!!'.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by North Star Monkey

Ha.That sounds very much like my school.Now it's 'Allah snackbarrrr!!!'.

It must be the new name for the tuck shop.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't see anything wrong with teaching it as a subject tbh. As long as its in a 'some people believe' type setting rather than being taught as truth. I have often wondered if faith schools teach science accurately...I am another who completely disagrees with faith schools. Education and religion should be kept separate. I am also kind of against bringing kids up strictly as a certain religion as the child should really have a choice about stuff like that. However I say that as someone who got my daughter christened so am slightly hypocritical Neither me nor my husband is religious though..not even totally sure why we did it but we are not raising her as Christian..its up to her when shes older

I went to a C of E primary school because it was close and apart from singing hymns in assembly in the morning,saying the lords prayer and taking food in for the poor at harvest it was no different from any other school.Still learned about Diwalli and other cultures and did normal lessons etc.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I think sometimes with baptism it's family pressure/expectation/not wanting to disappoint. I know my mother and mother in law were very keen for me to do it, even though neither had been inside a church apart from family weddings and baptisms. It was quite hard to resist the pressure.

Yeah honestly..we did it mainly for the grandparents. Felt a bit of a fraud standing up saying all the religious stuff.

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You mock, but you, or should I say your future children/grandchildren, may live to pay for your apathy on the subject. As long as you are not around to worry about it though.

Worked for all the over 50s that voted to leave

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Rob!

Worked for all the over 50s that voted to leave

That's an astonishing source of reference you have, to know who exactly voted for what.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

That's just as bad, if not worse though. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated with religion (and, ideally, things like political views too), more encouraged to think critically for themselves and come to their own conclusions either way.

Faith schools should be outlawed completely but I'm always on the fence when it comes to teaching religion as a subject, I can see both pros and cons. I always remember our Sociology class in Sixth Form asking our quite obviously atheist teacher why he taught RE to lower school, and he just responded with something like 'because the more you know about it, the more you realise how much **** it all is, and how to argue against it'. Made me think

I disagree with it as a non religious person but you can't tell people how to raise their kids and parents who truly believe in God and all that goes with it, how can they not teach it to their kids?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I disagree with it as a non religious person but you can't tell people how to raise their kids and parents who truly believe in God and all that goes with it, how can they not teach it to their kids?

Because they should realise that it's their own personal belief, which they are of course entitled to, but that their children should be afforded the same privilege. I know realistically this is never going to happen, but I still believe it should.

We should be raising a generation who are encouraged to think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and come to their own conclusions, whether that's on religion or politics. Indoctrinating children is appalling as far as I'm concerned.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Because they should realise that it's their own personal belief, which they are of course entitled to, but that their children should be afforded the same privilege. I know realistically this is never going to happen, but I still believe it should.

We should be raising a generation who are encouraged to think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and come to their own conclusions, whether that's on religion or politics. Indoctrinating children is appalling as far as I'm concerned.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with the theory behind your post but you have to try to see it through the eyes of a person who is religious, a big part of that is raising your kids by using the religions rules and beliefs etc. It would be going against the religions to not pass it on to their kids