[arista]

This is a Live debate
on James (Left Wing)0' Brian LBC Global Radio

http://www.lbc.co.uk/

click red - listen free

Ref : Yorkshire Health Trust



He ,James ,
wants to be very
polite about it
but says it is only
fair they stop smoking first.

[jaxie]

Here is my problem with this, people don't really choose to be fat, they do choose to start smoking but it's a lot more difficult to stop. Both obesity(food) and smoking are addictions. It seems a callous way to treat people who need help.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Here is my problem with this, people don't really choose to be fat, they do choose to start smoking but it's a lot more difficult to stop. Both obesity(food) and smoking are addictions. It seems a callous way to treat people who need help.

Not all fat people are food addicts and people stop smoking all the time

[Toy Soldier]

Smoking fair enough but... These people are not necessarily overeating. They aren't doing enough physical activity because... Err... They need hip replacements. Is he suggesting that they go for a jog?

[LeatherTrumpet]

also some are big boned

[Tom4784]

The weight issue is beyond stupid considering these people need a hip replacement so exercise isn't really a viable option but I agree with the smoking bit.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The weight issue is beyond stupid considering these people need a hip replacement so exercise isn't really a viable option but I agree with the smoking bit.

Being overweight reduces the chances of success and the NHS can hardly afford to throw money away on ops with a high failure rate.

[arista]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

also some are big boned

There are OK
they get the Op

[arista]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Smoking fair enough but... These people are not necessarily overeating. They aren't doing enough physical activity because... Err... They need hip replacements. Is he suggesting that they go for a jog?

Thats the Main Killer

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The weight issue is beyond stupid considering these people need a hip replacement so exercise isn't really a viable option but I agree with the smoking bit.

No Eat Less

[arista]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Here is my problem with this, people don't really choose to be fat, they do choose to start smoking but it's a lot more difficult to stop. Both obesity(food) and smoking are addictions. It seems a callous way to treat people who need help.

Yes but some refuse , to change

[smudgie]

I wonder how much of the tax on tobacco goes into the NHS, quite a large amount I should imagine. Probably pays for a hefty chunk of any care they get.
However, I can imagine the frustration that surgeons/ consultants feel when they operate on somebody but they still carry on smoking knowing the risks of not improving is high, this is nothing new though, my stepfather was operated on for a blockage in his leg, put down to his smoking, over 20 years ago, when he went back for his 6 week check up, he hadn't packed in smoking so the consultant told him he would not see him again.
If you are overweight then it is pretty obvious that everything is higher risk, more anaesthetic is needed to knock you out to start with, the op takes longer, more chance of hernias occurring, harder to get back on your feet etc, if you are not at any life risk then it would be wiser for your own chances of a better recovery to lose some weight first.
If any operation is needed to save life then there should be no question of how much they weigh, if they drink or smoke or are drug addicts,everyone deserves the chance to live. Surely that's one of the reasons our wonderful doctors and NHS workers choose their vocation.

[arista]

Yes they are Taxed High for FAGS
thats set in stone.

But if a Doctor says "stop smoking forever
and we will do your HIP"

I agree
with the Doctor

[Livia]

Tobacco tax puts around Ł12billion into the Treasury through duty and tax every year.

Twelve Billion.

And we're going to deny treatment to the people who pay more tax than anyone else in a like-for-like comparison.

Bloody outrageous.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Being overweight reduces the chances of success and the NHS can hardly afford to throw money away on ops with a high failure rate.

It's a hip replacement, not open heart surgery.

And what do you propose? If someone needs a hip replacement then chances are they aren't going to be mobile enough to exercise efficiently and healthy eating alone isn't going to make a difference without regular exercise.

The smoking part makes sense and even the obesity part makes sense for procedures that aren't based around fixing mobility issues but telling someone that they can't have a hip replacement because they are obese is just plain dumb.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

Tobacco tax puts around Ł12billion into the Treasury through duty and tax every year.

Twelve Billion.

And we're going to deny treatment to the people who pay more tax than anyone else in a like-for-like comparison.

Bloody outrageous.

Another morbid fact to go with that:

People assume that that tax is offset by smoke-related illness costing the NHS more money. However... smokers in general actually cost the health service LESS than non-smokers. Because the majority of most people's NHS cost comes in old age. And smokers die younger, freeing up resources.

[Livia]

I think if we're going to deny anyone treatment under the NHS then we have to be seen to be fair right across the board. So Casulty Depts should be closed to drunks on a Saturday night when they've been fighting and/or falling over and splitting open their stupid heads.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Another morbid fact to go with that:

People assume that that tax is offset by smoke-related illness costing the NHS more money. However... smokers in general actually cost the health service LESS than non-smokers. Because the majority of most people's NHS cost comes in old age. And smokers die younger, freeing up resources.

Hmmm that IS morbid. But true...

[Toy Soldier]

I just read that of an Ł8 pack of cigarettes, less than Ł1.50 is the actual cost of the product. Something like 85% is tobacco tax + VAT! Heh.

My dad smoked 2 packs a day for 40 years. Even adjusting for increasing prices and taxation, I reckon he must have paid something like Ł90,000 in cig tax. That's actually insane .

He quit about 5 years ago, because he realised that he could afford to retire early (57) if he quit smoking. He was literally working to be able to afford cigarettes.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I just read that of an Ł8 pack of cigarettes, less than Ł1.50 is the actual cost of the product. Something like 85% is tobacco tax + VAT! Heh.

My dad smoked 2 packs a day for 40 years. Even adjusting for increasing prices and taxation, I reckon he must have paid something like Ł90,000 in cig tax. That's actually insane .

He quit about 5 years ago, because he realised that he could afford to retire early (57) if he quit smoking. He was literally working to be able to afford cigarettes.

That's mad... Imagine... all that tax...

I gave up smoking cigarettes, not that I smoked that much, but the cost and the health risks combined made me decide.

[arista]

Yes TS thats only FAIR

TS said : "I just read that of an Ł8 pack of cigarettes, less than Ł1.50 is the actual cost of the product. Something like 85% is tobacco tax + VAT! Heh."

Sign Of The Times

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's a hip replacement, not open heart surgery.

And what do you propose? If someone needs a hip replacement then chances are they aren't going to be mobile enough to exercise efficiently and healthy eating alone isn't going to make a difference without regular exercise.

The smoking part makes sense and even the obesity part makes sense for procedures that aren't based around fixing mobility issues but telling someone that they can't have a hip replacement because they are obese is just plain dumb.

Being overweight increases the risk of post-op complications and infection and likely to reduce the lifespan of the hip implant. They don't just decide to discriminate against 'fat' people - there is a valid reason behind it.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Being overweight increases the risk of post-op complications and infection and likely to reduce the lifespan of the hip implant. They don't just decide to discriminate against 'fat' people - there is a valid reason behind it.

This is true to be fair, there are also significantly increased risks of going under general anaesthetic if you are overweight. For those who are significantly overweight, to be honest, unless it's life-saving surgery like a transplant / heart surgery / tumor removal, the risks are just not worth it.

[DemolitionRed]

My maternal grandmother desperately needed a hip replacement but her orthopedic surgeon told her that the extra weight she was carrying put her under too great risk of getting a pulmonary embolism.

We all helped her to lose the weight by encouraging and supporting her. She was still just a bit too heavy for the surgeon to be totally happy but by now the femoral head on her right side had virtually disappeared and so reluctantly he agreed to operate.

She died post op from a pulmonary embolism. she was 68 and we all thought she’d live forever.

Operating on overweight people carries a lot of risks.

[Kizzy]

The rate that you heal as a smoker is greatly reduced too I'd say that has more to do with being asked to stop, you have to give yourself the best chance don't you?