[Crimson Dynamo]

This judge who is fed up with drunk women getting raped has issued a stark warning:



A female judge has warned women who get drunk they are putting themselves in danger of being targeted by rapists.

Lindsey Kushner QC said women were entitled to "drink themselves into the ground" but their "disinhibited behaviour" could put them in danger.

Judge Kushner made the courtroom plea as she jailed a man for six years who raped a girl he met in a Burger King in Manchester city centre last year.

Judge Kushner, 64, said "as a woman judge" it would "be remiss" if she did not beg women to protect themselves from predatory men who ''gravitate'' towards drunken females.

The mother of two, who has sat as a senior circuit judge since 2002, said judges have been criticised for "putting more emphasis on what girls should and shouldn't do than on the act and the blame to be apportioned to rapists".

"There is absolutely no excuse and a woman can do with her body what she wants and a man will have to adjust his behaviour accordingly," she said.

But she said she does not "think it's wrong for a judge to beg woman to take actions to protect themselves".




Ricardo Rodrigues-Fortes-Gomes ignored his victim's pleas to stop, the court heard

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-39233617

[Jack_]

So you saw the other thread, and went searching for an article which erred on the side of victim blaming? I see.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jack_

So you saw the other thread, and went searching for an article which erred on the side of victim blaming? I see.

No they just reported it as first news item on Radio 2 after pick of the Pops (3 pm)so I googled it as it sounded controversial and I had made the Mattress girl thread before your one, which I have not looked at yet i am afraid.

[smudgie]

Fair comment from the judge.
Never an excuse for a man to rape anyone, but silly to put yourself at risk.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Fair comment from the judge.
Never an excuse for a man to rape anyone, but silly to put yourself at risk.

She is talking from experience and so we should listen to her, or young girls should, for sure

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

She is talking from experience and so we should listen to her, or young girls should, for sure

Indeed, been there and done that.

[Northern Monkey]

She is bang on right.
Nobody is victim blaming.It's obviously the fault of the attacker but we all should take responsibility for our safety.
If i had a daughter i would be telling her the same thing.It's common sense to look after yourself the best that you can.

[thesheriff443]

Its common sense.

[Northern Monkey]

You wouldn't get in a car with a paraletic driver and say 'well its ok cos if he kills me it's his fault'.

[Cherie]

What did she say wrong? It's an important message for females of any age, when I go out with my friends we always make the taxi wait until the person is through their front door and the last person in the taxi has to text to say they are indoors, no point taking risks and if you do intend getting drunk make sure you have some one who will look out for you, I know I wouldn't have said this when I was 20 but I put myself in some potentially very risky situations when I was young and just got lucky

[Brillopad]

In an ideal world women wouldn't need to be so careful, but there are a lot of creeps out there and they don't all look like the elephant man.

[Firewire]

Yes I think to be safe women should be banned from drinking alcohol because otherwise they'll just get raped and that's not fair on the taxpayer

[Jack_]

Sorry but this kind of discourse isn't helpful in the long run and at its heart is actually quite problematic. People should be able to get as drunk as they like without fearing that they may fall victim to being sexually assaulted. The problem is always with those who commit sexual assaults, nobody else - and while I can understand the sentiment that this judge is expressing, no doubt from a good place - what it does is shifts the narrative to preventative measures to be taken by the victim, instead of preventative measures for the assailant, i.e. addressing the root causes of sexual violence.

It's exactly the same as when people say stuff like 'oh don't wear that, you're asking to be bullied' to kids and try and police their behaviour so they don't fall victim. The point should be to stop bullying in the first place, not try and meander your way around it. This works in the very same way.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Firewire

Yes I think to be safe women should be banned from drinking alcohol because otherwise they'll just get raped and that's not fair on the taxpayer

Originally Posted by Jack_

Sorry but this kind of discourse isn't helpful in the long run and at its heart is actually quite problematic. People should be able to get as drunk as they like without fearing that they may fall victim to being sexually assaulted. The problem is always with those who commit sexual assaults, nobody else - and while I can understand the sentiment that this judge is expressing, no doubt from a good place - what it does is shifts the narrative to preventative measures to be taken by the victim, instead of preventative measures for the assailant, i.e. addressing the root causes of sexual violence.

It's exactly the same as when people say stuff like 'oh don't wear that, you're asking to be bullied' to kids and try and police their behaviour so they don't fall victim. The point should be to stop bullying in the first place, not try and meander your way around it. This works in the very same way.

That's all well and good in theory but, just like some gays say they don't hold hands in public for self preservation, the same is true for females, we need to take responsibility for our own safety, it's not perfect but it's what keeps us safe, I really dont know where you are going to start with educating sexual predators

[Denver]

The best thing is always try to be with someone

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Sorry but this kind of discourse isn't helpful in the long run and at its heart is actually quite problematic. People should be able to get as drunk as they like without fearing that they may fall victim to being sexually assaulted. The problem is always with those who commit sexual assaults, nobody else - and while I can understand the sentiment that this judge is expressing, no doubt from a good place - what it does is shifts the narrative to preventative measures to be taken by the victim, instead of preventative measures for the assailant, i.e. addressing the root causes of sexual violence.

It's exactly the same as when people say stuff like 'oh don't wear that, you're asking to be bullied' to kids and try and police their behaviour so they don't fall victim. The point should be to stop bullying in the first place, not try and meander your way around it. This works in the very same way.

That's all well and good in theory, but in reality the world is full siickos and, disgusting as rapists are, there are even worse out there such as sexual sadists and serial killers and for any woman to put herself at that risk is just crazy.

[RichardG]

i agree with what she is saying but there is surely a better way to protect urself than just 'don't get drunk'

perhaps encourage them to stay in a group as adam suggested or something idk

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Sorry but this kind of discourse isn't helpful in the long run and at its heart is actually quite problematic. People should be able to get as drunk as they like without fearing that they may fall victim to being sexually assaulted. The problem is always with those who commit sexual assaults, nobody else - and while I can understand the sentiment that this judge is expressing, no doubt from a good place - what it does is shifts the narrative to preventative measures to be taken by the victim, instead of preventative measures for the assailant, i.e. addressing the root causes of sexual violence.

It's exactly the same as when people say stuff like 'oh don't wear that, you're asking to be bullied' to kids and try and police their behaviour so they don't fall victim. The point should be to stop bullying in the first place, not try and meander your way around it. This works in the very same way.

People should be able to do lots of things but the world is a dangerous place and everything can't be controlled or stopped.If it could then there would be no criminals at all.
Why take the risk and possibly end up having an horrific experience.

[smudgie]

Stone cold sober girls/women get raped, mainly by people they know and trust.
Drunken girls/women get raped by a good intentional " friend".
The worst rape has to be stranger rape, cold or sober, fearing for you life.
Different degrees of rape in my opinion.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Cherie

That's all well and good in theory but, just like some gays say they don't hold hands in public for self preservation, the same is true for females, we need to take responsibility for our own safety, it's not perfect but it's what keeps us safe, I really dont know where you are going to start with educating sexual predators

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That's all well and good in theory, but in reality the world is full siickos and, disgusting as rapists are, there are even worse out there such as sexual sadists and serial killers and for any woman to put herself at that risk is just crazy.

The reason it's 'only good in theory' is because our society continually refuses to try and put theory into practice. We are so obsessed with retribution that we fail to address the symptoms of crime - and not just sexual ones - to try and prevent them from happening in the first place.

Will sexual assaults always happen? Probably. Can we make an effort to seriously reduce the number, through more education about consent, boundaries, as well as a coordinated effort to stop objectifying people (and that includes those who are merely expressing their sexuality because the two do not correlate. Ever)? Yes. This should be our very duty, it does not matter how difficult the task may seem, it is of the utmost importance that we seek to reduce its frequency. Sitting on our hands perpetuating these counterproductive platitudes is completely the wrong move.

Let me just reiterate that I think it's sensible for people to look after themselves when they are drinking, and for them to stay with a group at all times. However, if people choose not to that's also fine and what I don't agree with is people with a platform like this judge perpetuating a narrative which at its heart fails to account for the root causes of sexual assault in the first place. In the long run it's completely unhelpful.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ideal world

Real world

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Stone cold sober girls/women get raped, mainly by people they know and trust.
Drunken girls/women get raped by a good intentional " friend".
The worst rape has to be stranger rape, cold or sober, fearing for you life.
Different degrees of rape in my opinion.

I think its insulting to women that have been raped that if you know the person its not as bad if its a stranger.
A woman can get raped by someone she knows and kill her self because of it and a woman can get raped at knife point by a stranger and not kill herself.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jack_

The reason it's 'only good in theory' is because our society continually refuses to try and put theory into practice. We are so obsessed with retribution that we fail to address the symptoms of crime - and not just sexual ones - to try and prevent them from happening in the first place.

Will sexual assaults always happen? Probably. Can we make an effort to seriously reduce the number, through more education about consent, boundaries, as well as a coordinated effort to stop objectifying people (and that includes those who are merely expressing their sexuality because the two do not correlate. Ever)? Yes. This should be our very duty, it does not matter how difficult the task may seem, it is of the utmost importance that we seek to reduce its frequency. Sitting on our hands perpetuating these counterproductive platitudes is completely the wrong move.

Let me just reiterate that I think it's sensible for people to look after themselves when they are drinking, and for them to stay with a group at all times. However, if people choose not to that's also fine and what I don't agree with is people with a platform like this judge perpetuating a narrative which at its heart fails to account for the root causes of sexual assault in the first place. In the long run it's completely unhelpful.

highlighting that getting drunk can leave you vulnerable whether male or female is not unhelpful

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I think its insulting to women that have been raped that if you know the person its not as bad if its a stranger.
A woman can get raped by someone she knows and kill her self because of it and a woman can get raped at knife point by a stranger and not kill herself.

Really, well as a women that has gone through the experience I beg to differ.
As awful as it is, to be raped by some stranger and in fear of your life must be much worse.
I can agree that in either case women have different levels of how they cope.

[user104658]

I think the message to everyone, especially young people, of both genders, should just be to be aware of risk and to look out for each other. The idea that "it should be fine to get blind drunk in an ideal world" is straight up bonkers even if everyone was kind and gentle and no one was ever maliciously attacked. The number of young people who end up wandering off alone drunk and get into accidents, or fall asleep somewhere in the freezing cold and die of hypothermia, is shocking.

Look out for yourself, look out for your friends, be at least somewhat sensible, for a myriad of reasons.