[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

he comes across as arrogant and not very diplomatic to me. He's not very likeable. Doesn't seem like a good choice for someone who's trying to arrange a deal with the EU, especially after the way he carried on after the result of the vote but it's nothing to do with me

Personally I like him. OK maybe not the man for this job, but I was referring more to his abilities to negotiate deals and his oratory skills rather than this particular deal. Shame though, I think he would be ideal in many ways.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Personally I like him. OK maybe not the man for this job, but I was referring more to his abilities to negotiate deals and his oratory skills rather than this particular deal. Shame though, I think he would be ideal in many ways.

I think there's too much emotion invested in this for him, he already got everyones backs up in Europe with the gloating when Brexit was voted through, you do need someone who can be more diplomatic on this issue. I mean like I said it's nothing to do with me really but at the same time, we more than any other country will want you lot to get a good deal because we're so close to you and so far away from mainland Europe and you are our biggest trading partners. Also, of course because of Northern Ireland, it's all well and good our taoiseach getting a clause in saying if Northern Ireland vote to rejoin the republic then they can becomes members again but that's a hypothetical situation that may never happen, it would have been more helpful for him to talk about what kind of a deal right now we can have with the North imo

[Livia]

They're quoting from a German newspaper. Germany goes to the polls in the Autumn (after which Merkel is going to be looking for a new job, I reckon). They're hardly going to make it look like the UK will have an easy time. But then... we are an independent country, the people voted it so, so there's not much they can do. If they don't want to trade with us it will harm their imports and exports just as much as it'll hard ours. I predict lots of dummy-spitting in the months to come.

[Northern Monkey]

We need Farage to go in there with union jack boxers on and just pull his trousers down in front of Barnier and say 'chew on that ya bastards' and then walk out.That will set the tone for our starting position i feel.

[Livia]

LOL... Monkey, when I take over the country, I'm making you head of the Diplomatic Corps.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Livia

LOL... Monkey, when I take over the country, I'm making you head of the Diplomatic Corps.

I accept

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

The thing is.....
Who would be a good leader to go into the Brexit negotiations?
Corbyn?
Farron?

As much as i don't like the Tories.Who else is there?
It needs to be someone strong and stable who can take a strong hand into the negotiations.Who can offer that from the three main parties?

Tbh i'd rather have farage go in there than any of them.

Someone who can admit when they get things wrong.

We need a more genuine politics and if that means standing up to the hard right of their own party as well as the tabloid media who’s experience has already taught us that they will never be satisfied with anything that compromises their own ideological fixations.

Instead of a general election, it would have been more honest for the government to admit that they had got things wrong and that they now want to work on and communicate a more realistic expectation to the public, as well as give business, organizations and individuals more warning of the need to prepare for what’s coming next.

The government is trying to sell us a plan that has already started to fall apart at the seams.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Farage for me too. He is a great orator and not easily phased or intimidated. A confident and capable man.

But he's far right and far right policies may help you but they won't help businesses and industries

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Someone who can admit when they get things wrong.

We need a more genuine politics and if that means standing up to the hard right of their own party as well as the tabloid media who’s experience has already taught us that they will never be satisfied with anything that compromises their own ideological fixations.

Instead of a general election, it would have been more honest for the government to admit that they had got things wrong and that they now want to work on and communicate a more realistic expectation to the public, as well as give business, organizations and individuals more warning of the need to prepare for what’s coming next.

The government is trying to sell us a plan that has already started to fall apart at the seams.

Neither should they give in to the hard left of their own party. It works both ways. Both extremes are equally distasteful.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It's got her rather rattled.
She wants things kept quiet and done behind closed doors probably.
The EU may have other ideas.

She terms it gossip but often gossip contains truth.
She'd rather likely keep voters in the dark as to the way things really are going or are likely to.

This rhetoric that May has borrowed from the likes of the Daily Mail and the Daily Express, that seems to marginalise and demonise any form of opposition; makes it somehow no longer legitimate to question the government. To criticise the government is paramount to putting national interest in danger!!

This argument that May needs a strong mandate and needs it fast is unconvincing. Its tantamount to claiming that so long as we are engaged in international negotiations we should never change the government. For global Britain who will be in international negotiations forever, she may as well be saying, “this country needs a one party state”

This political messiah complex is anything but British.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

But he's far right and far right policies may help you but they won't help businesses and industries

Why do the left never refer to the right as right but always far right? Not an attempt to undermine I wonder.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Talk about counting your chickens. The outcome is two years' away - a lot can happen in that time.

More like turkeys voting for Christmas!

The contradiction in the timing is potentially catastrophic because the governments flawed analysis that we can leave the EU without any proper negotiations for future trade in place leaves us with no credible negotiation strategy.

Nothing wrong with the mindset of those that voted out. Time will tell about your predicted wake-up call - having to eat one's words is never very appetising.

I voted out but I'm aware that the leave victory was a narrow one and there is no evidence to suggest that the many leave voters were in favour of such an extreme outcome. The leave campaigners explicitly promised that withdrawal from the EU wouldn’t include leaving the single market and the customs union.

Its obvious that a large proportion of the country don’t support government plans.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Neither should they give in to the hard left of their own party. It works both ways. Both extremes are equally distasteful.

SCREAMS

Its not about giving in to the hard left, its about listening to different options, including options from their own party. Like I've already said, If the government had listened a little more and a little better, it might not be making the fundamental mistakes it has.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Why do the left never refer to the right as right but always far right? Not an attempt to undermine I wonder.

Because in every political party we have different degrees of "right" and "left". Do you believe all the Tory party are in agreement with a hard Brexit?

[Northern Monkey]

This all comes down to semantics on where each side wants to begin negotiating really.
The EU wants to settle citizens rights(which the Cons do also) and this so called 'divorce bill' first wheras the government are saying "there's no deal until we agree the whole deal".
When they actually get down to negotiating then no doubt progress will be made.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

This all comes down to semantics on where each side wants to begin negotiating really.
The EU wants to settle citizens rights(which the Cons do also) and this so called 'divorce bill' first wheras the government are saying "there's no deal until we agree the whole deal".
When they actually get down to negotiating then no doubt progress will be made.

But can all this be done in such a short time? We've taken a year to get this far!

[DemolitionRed]

Brexit plans are plagued with problems but the fundamental issues are with the de-structure of the UK demands and EU’s understanding, specifically when it comes to timing of all these complexities. The EU’s clear and persistent position is that we first sort out the mechanics of withdrawal and then we will start preliminary discussions about the future.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

More like turkeys voting for Christmas!




I voted out but I'm aware that the leave victory was a narrow one and there is no evidence to suggest that the many leave voters were in favour of such an extreme outcome. The leave campaigners explicitly promised that withdrawal from the EU wouldn’t include leaving the single market and the customs union.

Its obvious that a large proportion of the country don’t support government plans.

There is also no evidence to suggest they weren't or that they would be particularly phased by it either. I believe that most voted for in or out - that was it. All the talk about the single market, hard brexit, soft brexit came later.

I think some people like to think they more knowledgeable/intelligent than the majority of voters and particularly like to label those that voted out as gullible, stupid etc. This of course is not true, just intimidation tactics and agendas. Remoaners, devious lot that they are, preyed on the financial insecurities of the lower earners and unemployed in attempt to get them to change their votes. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't.

Maybe many people wanted out even if it might be a difficult ride. Things can't get much worse in this country in many ways.

.

[DemolitionRed]

We keep being told that we are "coming together" so why does it feel like we’ve never been so bitterly divided?

I'm on a rant and I'm also on my lunch break, so I'm off.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

SCREAMS

Its not about giving in to the hard left, its about listening to different options, including options from their own party. Like I've already said, If the government had listened a little more and a little better, it might not be making the fundamental mistakes it has.

They listened to an unexpected majority vote - to leave. That is what they are doing and that is what the remainers can't stomach.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

There is also no evidence to suggest they weren't or that they would be particularly phased by it either. I believe that most voted for in or out - that was it. All the talk about the single market, hard brexit, soft brexit came later.

I think some people like to think they more knowledgeable/intelligent than the majority of voters and particularly like to label those that voted out as gullible, stupid etc. This of course is not true, just intimidation tactics and agendas. Remoaners, devious lot that they are, preyed on the financial insecurities of the lower earners and unemployed in attempt to get them to change their votes. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't.

Maybe many people wanted out even if it might be a difficult ride. Things can't get much worse in this country in many ways.

.

Keep it at base level Brillo. It keeps the debate circles turning.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Because in every political party we have different degrees of "right" and "left". Do you believe all the Tory party are in agreement with a hard Brexit?

I'd have to live on Mars to believe that now wouldn't I. Don't be so patronising.

You just keep putting too much emphasis on the 'far-right'. Not everyone, probably not most, who wants out or didn't support open borders or who lacks any respect for the far left are far right.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The leave campaigners explicitly promised that withdrawal from the EU wouldn’t include leaving the single market and the customs union

No.

Infact even remainers said that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market.

Youtube video

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Why do the left never refer to the right as right but always far right? Not an attempt to undermine I wonder.

Due to the nature of their proposals maybe? What have the left suggested that could be described as far left?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Hark at all the clairvoyants on here who think they can predict the future this early in the game. All these wise souls who think they are so much better informed they anyone else. There is a Long way to go yet - a lot can and will happen. Jumping on one newspaper article as though it's words are a foregone conclusion is utter hysterical nonsence. It is definitely not a foregone conclusion, just another good dose of wishful thinking and scare tactics. The remoaners repeating their never ending words of woe at every opportunity! It is a desperate attempt to unnerve those hovering and to 'encourage' them to change their vote if and when there is a referendum on the terms of the deal. Constant scare tactics from scared and angry people

Did anyone really expect it was going to be easy, that the EU were going to just roll over. They don't want Brexit and are going to do everything they can to make it difficult. They are throwing a strop and stamping their feet in protest - as was expected.

Most predictions by those doom and gloom merchants of an immediate negative effect of our economy did not materialise and our economy is still strong. I for one am not going to buy into all this negative hype from those with a clear agenda. To do so would be foolish at this stage and playing into the hands of the Remoaners. Like the rest of us you remoaners are amateurs not economists and your opinions are no more knowledgable or better informed.

Opinions, however dressed up, are opinions, nothing more.

If you believe ignorance is bliss then feel free to stick your head in the sand but don't disparage others for accepting the reality of the situation.