[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Personalised Judgement in this case without any specialised knowledge is pretty worthless.

Hows your judgement on pisa being an excellent test of the UKs education system without a source going?

[Cherie]

If these tests are so stupid and should be ignored why are they carried out, publicised etc, you could argue most tests are stupid as teachers cram students in what they know is most likely to come up in exams rather than what is on the curriculum, so most exams are skewed in one way or another, and the water is muddied further by retakes, also exams differ between country to country, you could argue the PISA test is the same test taken by all so is more valid?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

Hows your judgement on pisa being an excellent test of the UKs education system without a source going?

Except that isn't what I said, is it?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Cherie

If these tests are so stupid and should be ignored why are they carried out, publicised etc, you could argue most tests are stupid as teachers cram students in what they know is most likely to come up in exams rather than what is on the curriculum, so most exams are skewed in one way or another, and the water is muddied further by retakes, also exams differ between country to country, you could argue the PISA test is the same test taken by all so is more valid?

1. You changing your avatar is confusing
2. I think they should absolutely be abolished. Or at least open to other age groups. You cant compare a stressed-with-exams-and-coursework 15 year old brit to a Singaporean that has fewer exams, obviously results will always be inconclusive there.
3. Other factors such as language barriers, the schools chosen at random etc are also detracting from its findings

Its just a bizarre thing to put schoolkids through, no conclusions should be made. Literally nobody is making conclusions either apart from Jaxie lol. Nicola has literally never mentioned pisa lol.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Withano

1. You changing your avatar is confusing
2. I think they should absolutely be abolished. Or at least open to other age groups. You cant compare a stressed-with-exams-and-coursework 15 year old brit to a Singaporean that has fewer exams, obviously results will always be inconclusive there.
3. Other factors such as language barriers, the schools chosen at random etc are also detracting from its findings

Its just a bizarre thing to put schoolkids through, no conclusions should be made. Literally nobody is making conclusions either apart from Jaxie lol. Nicola has literally never mentioned pisa lol.

i'm channelling LT

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

1. You changing your avatar is confusing
2. I think they should absolutely be abolished. Or at least open to other age groups. You cant compare a stressed-with-exams-and-coursework 15 year old brit to a Singaporean that has fewer exams, obviously results will always be inconclusive there.
3. Other factors such as language barriers, the schools chosen at random etc are also detracting from its findings

Its just a bizarre thing to put schoolkids through, no conclusions should be made. Literally nobody is making conclusions either apart from Jaxie lol. Nicola has literally never mentioned pisa lol.

Except I've already said that I don't know much about the validity of the tests, but I don't know enough to claim they are worthless either, and neither do you. Let's try hard not to misquote me.

What I intended to discuss was the information as a whole that was released this week regarding problems with Scotland's Education standards. I mentioned Pisa after someone said it was probably to get more free schools and I pointed out why would they want more free schools in the UK they are an EU organisation.

I already apologised to you for posting a link that wasn't the one I intended, I would love to see you be a bigger person one day and admit when you are wrong.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Cherie

i'm channelling LT

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Except I've already said that I don't know much about the validity of the tests, but I don't know enough to claim they are worthless either, and neither do you. Let's try hard not to misquote me.

What I intended to discuss was the information as a whole that was released this week regarding problems with Scotland's Education standards. I mentioned Pisa after someone said it was probably to get more free schools and I pointed out why would they want more free schools in the UK they are an EU organisation.

I already apologised to you for posting a link that wasn't the one I intended, I would love to see you be a bigger person one day and admit when you are wrong.

We should move on. The OP is now, quite an interesting topic. When I responded it was not... because pisa isnt a good way to test education across the world, and nobody has ever said otherwise as far as I'm aware, there are far too many flaws in the method. You being blind to them is still your prerogative. (I admitted I was wrong literally yesterday in a discussion I was having about farmers.. This is different thoug, you're just being stubborn imo).

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

We should move on. The OP is now, quite an interesting topic. When I responded it was not... because pisa isnt a good way to test education across the world, and nobody has ever said otherwise as far as I'm aware, there are far too many flaws in the method. You being blind to them is still your prerogative.

I found the link I had meant to post, which was streamed on my tablet with the recent reports and I admit I confused it as an article relating to this weeks news. However in view of this week's news on Scottish Education it can't fail to be relevant.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-38922338

"Researchers from the Sutton Trust think tank found a gap equivalent to more than two years in schooling for science, reading and maths between pupils from less well-off backgrounds in the top 10% of achievers nationally, compared to their equally clever but better-off peers.
'Major weaknesses'
The analysis used figures from the latest international Pisa tests - which Ms Sturgeon observed were actually carried out almost two years ago."

"In response, Ms Sturgeon acknowledged the report as an "important" one, but said the data it was using pre-dates her latest reforms."

She also said: "First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said she will make no excuses for the poor performance of Scottish schools in an international survey.
Scotland recorded its worst scores in the OECD's Pisa rankings in 2015.
Opposition politicians said Scotland was going "backwards" in reading, science and maths under the SNP.
Ms Sturgeon took responsibility for the results, which were "not good enough", but said they underlined the case for her educational reform plans."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-38250199

She seems to have a little more respect for PISA results than you do.

And moving on. Do we think that throwing money into education is the answer or should the system be reformed? Personally I think some of the paperwork needs to be reduced and teachers should be allowed to teach. The problem is that children do not fit into one box and so teaching on the fly should be more acceptable.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I found the link I had meant to post, which was streamed on my tablet with the recent reports and I admit I confused it as an article relating to this weeks news. However in view of this week's news on Scottish Education it can't fail to be relevant.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-38922338

"Researchers from the Sutton Trust think tank found a gap equivalent to more than two years in schooling for science, reading and maths between pupils from less well-off backgrounds in the top 10% of achievers nationally, compared to their equally clever but better-off peers.
'Major weaknesses'
The analysis used figures from the latest international Pisa tests - which Ms Sturgeon observed were actually carried out almost two years ago."

"In response, Ms Sturgeon acknowledged the report as an "important" one, but said the data it was using pre-dates her latest reforms."

Yeh theres a huge gap between advantaged and disadvantaged, another reason that the pisa test is flawed, the random sampling method could select more or less of one of these groups from each country. Dont have much to add. An analysis on pisa scores is just that, the fact that it highlighted the attainment gap between social-classes isn't surprising, its the analyses that compare figures internationally that are pointless.

[smudgie]

Testing put to one side, less than a half of 13 and 14 year olds can write well and the proportion who are functionally illiterate has doubled according to the new figures.
It was debated on the Daily politics today, also in the Telegraph in an article by the Scottish political editor.
As to uni, the amount of people who are illiterate entering uni has risen as well, not just in Scotland.

[Toy Soldier]

There are issues with the education system to be honest but they are almost entirely related to funding. Classroom sizes are too big and schools are understaffed. Simple as that.

There are huge problems with education UK wide, though.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There are issues with the education system to be honest but they are almost entirely related to funding. Classroom sizes are too big and schools are understaffed. Simple as that.

There are huge problems with education UK wide, though.

But doesn't Scotland control what funding they put into education?

[Toy Soldier]

Yes and no, how money is spent day to day is devolved to local councils which (in my opinion) is a mistake. I actually think spending should be decided by the schools themselves, with councils (and beyond) only stepping in to assess if it's being spent well when a school is under - performing.

However the overall lump-sum funding is, I believe, received in a block from Westminster. It will continue to be that way until taxation is fully devolved, if that ever happens.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Testing put to one side, less than a half of 13 and 14 year olds can write well and the proportion who are functionally illiterate has doubled according to the new figures.
It was debated on the Daily politics today, also in the Telegraph in an article by the Scottish political editor.
As to uni, the amount of people who are illiterate entering uni has risen as well, not just in Scotland.

Hang on what?... How on earth do you get into uni illiterate? :/

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Hang on what?... How on earth do you get into uni illiterate? :/

It must happen, when my son was at Uni he had a friend who had very poor English and he really couldn't cope. His family lived in London but he was originally from Poland. He ended up dropping out because he couldn't keep up with the other students.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Cherie

If these tests are so stupid and should be ignored why are they carried out, publicised etc, you could argue most tests are stupid as teachers cram students in what they know is most likely to come up in exams rather than what is on the curriculum, so most exams are skewed in one way or another, and the water is muddied further by retakes, also exams differ between country to country, you could argue the PISA test is the same test taken by all so is more valid?

It wouldnt be so stupid if they were in favour of their preferred party

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Hang on what?... How on earth do you get into uni illiterate? :/

Heaven only knows Kizzy.
But it's happening more and more, get them in and get their dosh maybe

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It must happen, when my son was at Uni he had a friend who had very poor English and he really couldn't cope. His family lived in London but he was originally from Poland. He ended up dropping out because he couldn't keep up with the other students.

He may have been doing a baccalaureate?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He may have been doing a baccalaureate?

Bachelor of Arts (BA)

My son said he could speak decent English but couldn't keep up with the written work. I've no idea how he got into the course, maybe he got a lot of help with his written work during A levels or BTech?