[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It should only be expanded upon to provide more rights, never to take them away. Taking away rights is basically like waving a white flag at terrorism. We will have already lost if that's the case.

Reduced human rights only benefits the government, to think it would have an impact on terrorism is gullible to the extreme. We are the only ones who will suffer because of it because increased surveillance and a controlled internet will only be used to consolidate the Government's power, not root out terrorism.

Human Rights are something we should fight to protect. We shouldn't be giving them up out of hysterical fear.

It's the rights of terrorists - they are not entitled to any rights when they commit such atrocities.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It's the rights of terrorists - they are not entitled to any rights when they commit such atrocities.

You've missed the point as usual.

You are willing to cut off your nose to spite your face and in the process you are invalidating the sacrifices of everyone who made and protected our human rights. It's disgraceful.

To live in fear and to revoke our own rights for a false sense of security is akin to terrorism winning. People like you are being played like a goddamn fiddle and you'll go along with it gladly because you are incapable of seeing beyond the headlines, the shallow gestures and the catchphrases. Do you actually know anything about Theresa May's policies? Can you name one? Do you know who you are actually supporting?

For the love of God, no matter who you vote for tomorrow at least glance at the manifestos and be informed about it.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Right there with you. We're literally already considering our future prospects for getting the he'll out of the UK. It's something we've thought about for a while but were always on the "but everywhere else is going the same way anyway" page. However, it's getting past that now. The UK is going to be significantly worse than the US / Canada and other English-speaking countries.

I definitely think it's a move worth taking. Ironically, since I'm under 25, they're going to make it more difficult for me to leave home, let alone abroad.

It's just the thought of what they're about to do to this country that makes me feel physically sick. The amount of people who are about to be ****ed over, left for dead, our public services continuing to crumble, them turning this country into some quasi-police state, giving the press free reign to do what the hell they like, gerrymandering the electoral boundaries to turn us into a one-party state, rescinding worker's rights, bailing out of the EU without a deal (genuinely think this is a strong possibility) which'll sink this country overnight, the list goes on.

I agree with you when you say you don't pity these people anymore. I'm past the point of caring, I hope this next Tory government inflicts a whole world of pain of them so they can realise what this party is actually all about. Maybe when the affects of austerity trickle down to the 'I'm alright Jack' types they'll wake up and see what's going on, or the Brexit debacle will turn out to be a poisoned chalice. But even then I'm losing hope, cause they'll trot out more recycled messages about 'strong and stable leadership', 'balancing the budget', 'coalition of chaos' and the cycle will continue.

I really do miss the pig ****er and the Pepsi sniffer. Awful, but not deplorable. This manifesto literally screams The Nasty Party and they're still going to win.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You've missed the point as usual.

You are willing to cut off your nose to spite your face and in the process you are invalidating the sacrifices of everyone who made and protected our human rights. It's disgraceful.

To live in fear and to revoke our own rights for a false sense of security is akin to terrorism winning. People like you are being played like a goddamn fiddle and you'll go along with it gladly because you are incapable of seeing beyond the headlines, the shallow gestures and the catchphrases. Do you actually know anything about Theresa May's policies? Can you name one? Do you know who you are actually supporting?

For the love of God, no matter who you vote for tomorrow at least glance at the manifestos and be informed about it.

Those who are panicking about the idea of looking at human rights sound more like they are fearful to me.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Right there with you. We're literally already considering our future prospects for getting the he'll out of the UK. It's something we've thought about for a while but were always on the "but everywhere else is going the same way anyway" page. However, it's getting past that now. The UK is going to be significantly worse than the US / Canada and other English-speaking countries.

Good luck to you and Jack_ though I think you will find the grass isn't always greener.

I suppose you would be able to vote against President Trump next time an election comes up. Trudeau seems nice.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Dystopian nightmare - more conspiracy theories gone mad.

I have to agree with you on this one, the reaction on this subject does seem OTT to me.

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I have to agree with you on this one, the reaction on this subject does seem OTT to me.

Look at Theresa May's history, her whole career has been about getting more invasions on privacy and freedoms.

[DemolitionRed]

The ridiculous thing is, those voting for the Tories tomorrow won't find out what they voted for until afterwards. Not exactly confidence building is it.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Those who are panicking about the idea of looking at human rights sound more like they are fearful to me.

Of course I'm fearful, the thought of gullible fools throwing away Human Rights out of hysterical spite is terrifying. If it doesn't worry you then you probably don't have a good understanding of what Human Rights are.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The ridiculous thing is, those voting for the Tories tomorrow won't find out what they voted for until afterwards. Not exactly confidence building is it.

As the old quote goes, 'the best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter'.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Jack_

As the old quote goes, 'the best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter'.

Hehe! I'm going to pin that quote on my fridge.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I knew someone would say that and I think it's a load of bull. She won't last long if she does that.

She won't last long either way. Yes she will win this election. But after the Brexit thing, the Tories will get rid. I fully expect to see a leadership challenge with near the whole party behind the candidate that stands against her. The conservative party may be many things, but they are not stupid. They know she is crap, and won't stand for it. They will soon replace her with someone who actually IS 'strong and stable'.

But they will wait. As they want to have someone to blame for Brexit. Not for going through with it of course as the people voted for it. But either for getting no trade deal, or having to keep freedom of movement. As one of those IS going to happen.

I tend to not like Tory policies (though some I do agree with) but I wouldn't slag off the PM just for the sake of it. An d May is dire. I actually feel a bit sorry for her, as she was forced into a role she was neither ready for nor actually wanted. Its no wonder shes awful at it really.

[Anaesthesia]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40187805

I find the following quote from that article particularly pertinent:

A derogation was sought after the 9/11 attacks in 2001 in order to indefinitely detain terror suspects at Belmarsh prison.
The Law Lords (the predecessors of the Supreme Court) declared these measures disproportionate and unlawfully discriminatory because they targeted only non-UK citizens.
Lord Hoffman ruled: "The real threat to the life of the nation, in the sense of a people living in accordance with its traditional laws and political values, comes not from terrorism but from laws such as these."

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I've been saying this for weeks, they can literally do or say anything they like and the electorate will lap it up. It's ****ing frightening.

It is beyond all comprehension that people think this is an exciting idea. Well, who am I kidding? It's not really, but Jesus Christ we really are sleeping walking into a dystopian nightmare. This deplorable **** is about to be gifted a carte blanche landslide mandate to dismantle our public services, sell them off to the highest bidder, and rip up people's long-fought for rights in the name of anti-terror. I think some people forget that the concept of human rights are universal, they're not dealt out like treats to children when they've 'earned' them. Either we all have them, or we all don't. It's like yesterday when people were banging on about Sadiq Khan 'defending' a 9/11 conspirator. Funnily enough, he was a lawyer and that was his job. Yes, even the most reprehensible people are entitled to a fair hearing. It honestly scares me that people think otherwise.

This election is a living nightmare, and I couldn't hate this country and its people anymore than I do now. Seriously, get me the **** out of here.

Indeed Jack, it really is frightening.

I just got back from being in Durham, and I overheard some guy going on about this human rights thing. He was all for scrapping them...his reason

'They are something forced upon us by europe and only benefit terrorists'

There are actually people who think like this. Gavin just kind of glared at me so I didn't set him straight. I mean, its fair enough having the view that this is a good thing IF you understand Human Rights. But this guy clearly didn't. And a hell of a lot of voters won't either...these rights were fought for and we are going to throw them away for nothing, just because May has put the ****ters up people about terrorism. Its kind of..look there don't look here isn't it. Just when she was coming under fire for cutting funds to security services and such...she throws out this gem.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Indeed Jack, it really is frightening.

I just got back from being in Durham, and I overheard some guy going on about this human rights thing. He was all for scrapping them...his reason

'They are something forced upon us by europe and only benefit terrorists'

There are actually people who think like this. Gavion just kind of glarted at me so I didn't set him straight. I mean, its fair enough having the view that this is a good thing IF you understand Human Rights. But this guy clearly didn't. And a hell of a lot of voters won't either...these rights were fought for and we are going to throw them away for nothing, just because May has put the ****ters up people about terrorism. Its kind of..look there don't look here isn't it. Just when she was coming under fire for cutting funds to security services and such...she throws out this gem.

Sweet Jesus


**glarted though, is that similar to a shart?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sweet Jesus


**glarted though, is that similar to a shart?

LOL. Glared that should be.

[Braden]

What an awful last-ditch attempt to sway voters back.

[Vicky.]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-of-terrorists

Shadow Brexit secretary speaking so much ****ing sense.

Starmer, a former director of public prosecutions who oversaw dozens of terror cases, said Theresa May was misguided to focus on human rights law rather than policing cuts.

“There is no incompatibility between protecting human rights and taking effective action against terrorists,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

“If we start throwing away our adherence to human rights in response to what has happened in the last three months, we are throwing away the values at the heart of the democracy, everything that we say we believe in.”

Starmer said he had never found human rights law a barrier to successful prosecutions of terrorists or those preparing acts of terrorism. “I know because I did it for five years,” he said. “We did not run into the Human Rights Act as a problem preventing successful prosecutions. We put a lot of people away for a very long time.”

Basically, think before throwing away our own rights. None of these attacks would have been prevented by scrapping human rights and 'apparently' being able to deport terrorists quicker.

[King Gizzard]

It's just a eve of the election shock headline to get gullibles to vote

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-of-terrorists

Shadow Brexit secretary speaking so much ****ing sense.



Basically, think before throwing away our own rights. None of these attacks would have been prevented by scrapping human rights and 'apparently' being able to deport terrorists quicker.

Indeed; what exactly is the point of scrapping a load of human rights to "deport terrorists faster once they're caught", whilst making sweeping cuts that mean they're less likely to be caught in the first place?

I also have a bit of an issue with the whole "Deport them!!" mantra. Like... what? So long as we're OK, who cares if they carry out an attack somewhere else in the world? Just palm them off on another country and let them deal with it? When most of them, if they weren't born in this country, were certainly radicalized here. In my view, that makes them OUR criminals to deal with.

If a British kid moves to the US when he's a normal 10 year old and falls in with a violent gang in a US city, then kills several people when he's 30... do we think the US should say "Hey UK! This guy who was born in your country is a criminal, we've put him on a plane, you can either lock him up at your expense or let him loose on your own streets but we want nothing to do with it thanks."

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Anyone that praises the destruction of Human Rights out of fear are basically taking a dump on the graves of every soldier, activist and individual that died to help create and protect those rights. It's a ****ing disgrace and people who support this should be ashamed.

I very much doubt the brave men and women who fought in the wars to protect this country would be happy to see the state it is in now with all these terrorist attacks on innocent people and all the hate from certain sectors of our community towards our way of life who have little respect for our country or our culture - so please don't wheel that out - as I don't think you know what you are talking about.

It isn't those that support the removal of the rights of terrorists that should be ashamed.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

She has said,she will alter the laws for terrorists human rights if she needs to,people really need to listen more and stop panicking,and please don't speak for me,I don't hate her,I don't hate any of them,why would I ?I don't know them.

Problem is, she cannot just change laws to affect terrorists and not ordinary people?! Human rights are either for everyone or no-one. Its impossible to have human rights for everyone except for terrorists. Laws don't work like that :S

Listen more and stop panicking. Because we aren't told a pack of lies on a daily basis in the leadup to the election. Just listen to what politicians say. Do not think about it, nor look up things yourself to check if what we are listening to is true, or even can be true.

I am taking your mention of 'terrorists' to be people who we have proof are actually terrorists? Problem here is...prosecuting actual terrorists is not difficult when the proof is there. These proposed changes will be about 'suspected terrorists'. In other words, scrapping innocent until proven guilty. Thats why its scary that so many are accepting this as a good thing.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I very much doubt the brave men and women who fought in the wars to protect this country would be happy to see the state it is in now with all these terrorist attacks on innocent people and all the hate from certain sectors of our community towards our way of life who have little respect for our country or our culture - so please don't wheel that out - as I don't think you know what you are talking about.

It isn't those that support the removal of the rights of terrorists that should be ashamed.

You can continue to delude yourself into thinking that but people have died to protect the rights we've enjoyed and to destroy them like you want to for no good reason is basically allowing thousands of people's deaths to be in vain....just so you can feel less guilty about engaging in your prejudices.

Human Rights should be protected, to give them up in fear is to let the terrorists win. Your attitude towards Human Rights is shameful.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It isn't those that support the removal of the rights of terrorists that should be ashamed.

Will you please at least try to remember that you CAN'T "remove the rights of terrorists" without removing rights for everyone. It's not a thing, it doesn't exist.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You can continue to delude yourself into thinking that but people have died to protect the rights we've enjoyed and to destroy them like you want to for no good reason is basically allowing thousands of people's deaths to be in vain....just so you can feel less guilty about engaging in your prejudices.

Human Rights should be protected, to give them up in fear is to let the terrorists win. Your attitude towards Human Rights is shameful.

I feel exactly the same way about your attitude towards them. Terrorists are not entitled to any rights. If you think they are that is your problem.