[Livia]

It'll descend into the usual unhelpful mini-riot once the Socialist Worker and various other deadbeat organisations muscle in. Sadly, no one listens to the actual reason for the protest once it turns nasty. And it will.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

so we just had an election.......

I don't know how many more times this has to be pointed out before people on here and outside ~get it~, but democracy does not begin and end with an election or referendum. It also encompasses the right to protest and the right to (yours and others') beloved free speech. The election took place - Labour lost, and so did the Conservatives. People are entitled to protest whenever and about whatever they like. I abhor the likes of the EDL and Britain First, but I would never suggest that they should not be allowed to demonstrate about something they believe in. That's democracy. Not one where we all put up and shut up for five years in between elections because we all must bow down to the government's every word. How absurd.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I don't know how many more times this has to be pointed out before people on here and outside ~get it~, but democracy does not begin and end with an election or referendum. It also encompasses the right to protest and the right to (yours and others') beloved free speech. The election took place - Labour lost, and so did the Conservatives. People are entitled to protest whenever and about whatever they like. I abhor the likes of the EDL and Britain First, but I would never suggest that they should not be allowed to demonstrate about something they believe in. That's democracy. Not one where we all put up and shut up for five years in between elections because we all must bow down to the government's every word. How absurd.

just ponting out to Kizzy (not you) that the country had an opportunity to decide which party they like best and the Conservatives won. Kizzy seems to think everyone hates them and they are the work of satan. It would appear she is way, way off the mark

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Was Theresa May?

She was on the committee that oversaw the project. Her name is on the report. But the Left is now so used to deflecting and claiming innocence when it is actually ineptitude, it's a way of life now. The Left is probably dizzy from all the spinning. According to Corbyn supporters, everything on the Right is evil and everything on the left is all rainbows and pretty flowers.

And for the record, Seeing Corbyn's grinning face in Kensington the day after the fire as he cynically used the whole terrible incident for his own promotion is actually sickening. But then, lets not forget that he forged his name through his support of terrorism and now that fact follows him around. Not with his blinded supporters, but with the rest of the country.

I personally haven't pointed a finger at Theresa May as being personally responsible for procurement of the cladding have I? I fail to see the relevance of your query :/

As a Labour councillor she oversaw the planning of the renovations prior to leaving 3yrs before completion... Is it not the ex tory MP deflecting with this straw clutching excuse for systematic failings and ineptitude?...

I'll ignore your generalised slights at 'the left' as they're not really relevant.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

just ponting out to Kizzy (not you) that the country had an opportunity to decide which party they like best and the Conservatives won. Kizzy seems to think everyone hates them and they are the work of satan. It would appear she is way, way off the mark

When I need your instruction on anything, which is highly unlikely I'l ask

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

just ponting out to Kizzy (not you) that the country had an opportunity to decide which party they like best and the Conservatives won. Kizzy seems to think everyone hates them and they are the work of satan. It would appear she is way, way off the mark

The Conservatives did not win. Look, I realise the Tories are feeling a bit bruised after losing their majority in an election they thought they'd crush the opposition in, but if I - as a Labour supporter - can admit that they indeed lost this election, the least others can do is acknowledge that the Conservatives didn't win either. We have a hung parliament, to win an election you need to gain a majority in the House of Commons. Nobody did, and no coalitions or confidence and supply deals will mean they 'won' this election. Just to reiterate - people are entitled to protest whenever they like, lord knows those who were anti-EU let us know about it for twenty years.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Jack_

The Conservatives did not win. Look, I realise the Tories are feeling a bit bruised after losing their majority in an election they thought they'd crush the opposition in, but if I - as a Labour supporter - can admit that they indeed lost this election, the least others can do is acknowledge that the Conservatives didn't win either. We have a hung parliament, to win an election you need to gain a majority in the House of Commons. Nobody did, and no coalitions or confidence and supply deals will mean they 'won' this election. Just to reiterate - people are entitled to protest whenever they like, lord knows those who were anti-EU let us know about it for twenty years.

really who did win?

last time I looked TM was in no. 10


and as is always said, people can protest without masks, and violence


However it takes a particularly nasty type to think to protest in London this week, after the month that the police, fire and ambulance and business and residents have had, is a good idea?

it really beggars belief

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

really who did win?

last time I looked TM was in no. 10


and as is always said, people can protest without masks, and violence


However it takes a particularly nasty type to think to protest in London this week, after the month that the police, fire and ambulance and business and residents have had, is a good idea?

it really beggars belief

Being the incumbent government doesn't mean you won an election. It's called a hung parliament for a reason, not a 'hung but oh wait the Conservatives have the most seats so they won parliament'. If they won this election, why has there already been moves behind the scenes to oust Mayhem? Why were Tory ministers and MPs deriding the campaign only minutes after the exit poll? If they won, surely it was a fantastic campaign and she's a wonderful leader?

Most people do protest without masks and violence. Again, often groups like the SWP - whom are chastised by many on the left - try to hijack these demonstrations for their own personal gain, but they are in the minority. For what it's worth, the anti-Tory/DUP demonstration was organised before the fire, and the protest at the council building had very little to do with anyone in particular - more the understandable and righteous anger of the residents of Kensington. And sorry, but the 'police need a break' line doesn't wash with me - for starters it's their job, secondly I'd argue that those on the left care more about their profession since they don't want their force and resources cut to the bone, and lastly - you might be surprised, many police officers are quietly in support of these demonstrations. After all, in a roundabout way, they're protesting on their behalf too.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

really who did win?

last time I looked TM was in no. 10


and as is always said, people can protest without masks, and violence


However it takes a particularly nasty type to think to protest in London this week, after the month that the police, fire and ambulance and business and residents have had, is a good idea?

it really beggars belief

Public services and business are as affected as anyone, TM has a very shallow grip on no10 due solely to her 'deal' to the DUP (of which we have heard very little). The brexit negotiations have thankfully made this a priority, will she still be there by Christmas? If she can't broker a deal with the 2 factions involved in Ireland how the heck is negotiating 27 countries going to go? :/

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

really who did win?

last time I looked TM was in no. 10


and as is always said, people can protest without masks, and violence


However it takes a particularly nasty type to think to protest in London this week, after the month that the police, fire and ambulance and business and residents have had, is a good idea?

it really beggars belief

Great post LT.

[LeatherTrumpet]

"shut down London"

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

just ponting out to Kizzy (not you) that the country had an opportunity to decide which party they like best and the Conservatives won. Kizzy seems to think everyone hates them and they are the work of satan. It would appear she is way, way off the mark

As fewer that 50% of the population voted Tory, I'm not sure how you can be so confident that the rest (that is to say, more than half) don't hate the Tories . I mean I'm not saying that all of them definitely do, just that you have absolutely no evidence to the contrary

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

As fewer that 50% of the population voted Tory, I'm not sure how you can be so confident that the rest (that is to say, more than half) don't hate the Tories . I mean I'm not saying that all of them definitely do, just that you have absolutely no evidence to the contrary

yes and no one voted for Trump and look, there he is as the Leader of the Free world

aint politics funny

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

yes and no one voted for Trump and look, there he is as the Leader of the Free world

aint politics funny

Didn't say anything about who is or isn't the leader or who was or wasn't elected; just pointing out that your logic of "They won therefore most people must like them" is entirely false... as you don't need (anywhere near) 50% of the popular vote to win an election in the UK.

[Kizzy]

Replying to an image of protesters gathered outside the town hall chanting for justice, Mr Hawkins said: “Lets get ourselves a hangin!”


Is it any wonder there is rage?...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7798656.html

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Replying to an image of protesters gathered outside the town hall chanting for justice, Mr Hawkins said: “Lets get ourselves a hangin!”


Is it any wonder there is rage?...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7798656.html

apart from apologising and being suspended, I dont understand what the tweet was about?

was he saying that the mob looked like a pitchfork parade looking to dish out mob justice?

idgi

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Great post LT.

Is it? Neither party won this election, the concept of a hung parliament really isn't that complex

[jennyjuniper]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i think there is clear misunderstanding here.

Rent-a-mob is being mobilised. The shadow chancellor along with Momentum have called for a million people to get on the streets and protest. This isn't about the poor folks affected by the fire, this is about cynical opportunism, encouraged by Corbyn being used to subvert democracy in this country. I urge everyone to open their eyes.

I agree with this. By the way, where was Corbyn and Momentum when little girls were being blown up and policemen and tourists stabbed to death or run over?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I personally haven't pointed a finger at Theresa May as being personally responsible for procurement of the cladding have I? I fail to see the relevance of your query :/

As a Labour councillor she oversaw the planning of the renovations prior to leaving 3yrs before completion... Is it not the ex tory MP deflecting with this straw clutching excuse for systematic failings and ineptitude?...

I'll ignore your generalised slights at 'the left' as they're not really relevant.

Don't ignore my comments about the Left... I don't ignore yours about the right.

How long do you think things take in the planning stages? Do you think they organised the upgrading in a weekend? I thought you knew about local politics.

The Left - and that includes you, unless you've changed your political allegiance lately or we're not allowed to mention it -has used the tragedy in Kensington as a political stepping stone for their own ends. They should be embarrassed.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Don't ignore my comments about the Left... I don't ignore yours about the right.

How long do you think things take in the planning stages? Do you think they organised the upgrading in a weekend? I thought you knew about local politics.

The Left - and that includes you, unless you've changed your political allegiance lately or we're not allowed to mention it -has used the tragedy in Kensington as a political stepping stone for their own ends. They should be embarrassed.

If it was rational I would, but it was the usual generalisation so no I'll pass thanks.

You presume too much liv that's your problem. It isn't the fault of one Councillor on a panel in the preliminary planning stages of a project that can be held accountable for the failure of contractors and surveyors to comply with building regulations.

You are accusing me personally of using this tragedy to score political points by criticising the lack of effort following the fire?
Far from embarrassed I am proud to do that, I am proud to see that. There has to be some accountability and I hope the pressure grows to facilitate that end.

I hope that makes my position crystal, be they left right or centre I would expect justice to be the least anyone would want.

[Vicky.]

Still no truth from the authorities about how many died. Is there any wonder there is a chance of riots? This is a ****ing disgrace and honestly, I would be out with the protestors if anyone I knew was 'missing' still and noone would acknowledge it. 400+ people lived there...150 or so accounted for and the rest seemingly ignored. Absolutely disgraceful.

Also if what the firemen have been saying about the government trying to get the 'death by fire' figures down then thats a disgrace too. Apparently anyone who jumped wouldn't count in the figures, anyone who dies in hospital rather than being burnt alive...all so more of the firefighting budget can be cut away. I am almost ashamed to be part of this country right now. Where cost cutting (thats not even needed) is quite literally killing people.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Still no truth from the authorities about how many died. Is there any wonder there is a chance of riots? This is a ****ing disgrace and honestly, I would be out with the protestors if anyone I knew was 'missing' still and noone would acknowledge it. 400+ people lived there...150 or so accounted for and the rest seemingly ignored. Absolutely disgraceful.

Also if what the firemen have been saying about the government trying to get the 'death by fire' figures down then thats a disgrace too. Apparently anyone who jumped wouldn't count in the figures, anyone who dies in hospital rather than being burnt alive...all so more of the firefighting budget can be cut away. I am almost ashamed to be part of this country right now. Where cost cutting (thats not even needed) is quite literally killing people.

They can't confirm that the missing are dead until the have absolute proof. Given it was a fire, and that the area is very difficult to search, it could take a very long time, and some will never be confirmed.

Its very distressing for relatives, but if the authorities jumped to wrong conclusions it would be even worse.

Everyone feels for those affected, and yes, many have a right to be angry, but that wave of sympathy is being used by others to further their own more sinister agendas and that should not be supported under any circumstances, and if need be, I will also be on the streets demonstrating to protect our democracy from these thugs

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

[Kazanne]

A family who were thought to be missing have been found safe and well,so people are still being found,let the authorities do their work

[Tom4784]

Let them compartmentalise the rightful anger of the people for allowing a deathtrap to exist more like.

They aren't dripfeeding the number of deaths like this out of consideration for anything other than themselves since the government ****ed up considerably with Grenfell. We won't get the actual triple digit figure we all know to be true for weeks or maybe even months down the line because the government doesn't want to reveal how badly they ****ed up while the public are still outraged.

We'll only get the full scope once the papers get bored and the public forgets. That's why people are mad, the government are sweeping the dead under the ****ing carpet to save face.