[Brillopad]

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/stu...n-fees-changes

Fed up with all this nonsence about paying back student loans. As usual the ones who will benefit the most from Corbyn's 'no fees' policy will be the highest earners. As usual the ones that pay for it will be the taxpayers.

That explains all the fuss.

[Tom4784]

Grr Young people that aren't voting Tories! Grrr!

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Grr Young people that aren't voting Tories! Grrr!

Grr - get some balance about student loans.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Grr - get some balance about student loans.

Let's be real though, this isn't about Student Loans for you. You dislike Higher education because you think it's a breeding ground for progressive, diverse and liberal viewpoints and that's why you are for limiting access to it by trashing any movement to abolish Uni fees.

It's a similar attitude that republicans and right leaning politicians have in the US, support for higher learning is at an all time low from those politicians and it's essentially because they rely on ignorance to stay in power and it's the same for the Tories. If Uni becomes more accessible to everyone then the Tories will lose their grip on the working class sheep that they rely so heavily on.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Let's be real though, this isn't about Student Loans for you. You dislike Higher education because you think it's a breeding ground for progressive, diverse and liberal viewpoints and that's why you are for limiting access to it by trashing any movement to abolish Uni fees.

It's a similar attitude that republicans and right leaning politicians have in the US, support for higher learning is at an all time low from those politicians and it's essentially because they rely on ignorance to stay in power and it's the same for the Tories. If Uni becomes more accessible to everyone then the Tories will lose their grip on the working class sheep that they rely so heavily on.

You do get carried away with that over-active imagination of yours and making lots of assumptions about what you think I really believe based on your interpretation of what I say.

I certainly do not dislike higher education - where the hell did you get that stupid idea from? I value higher education and have been there myself. That is one of the maddest things you have said and proves to me that you are no-where near having the measure of me.

Yes I do feel that they have become a breeding ground for liberal views (describing them as progressive is purely opinion) due to peer pressure which has always been very powerful and liberal views are just very 'in' with certain groups at the moment, but I also know many are more independently minded and less susceptible to it - it's about self-confidence. I also value that level of education for anyone and everyone who has the the grades and wants it. The current system provides that.

The article I posted demonstrates what a load of ballony all the drama about uni fees is. Those that will benefit the most from Corbyn's proposals will the highest earners who should pay. But all the scare-tactics also provided him with a lot of young votes. All is fair in love, war and elections hey!

[Kizzy]

The attack threads have moved from Corbyn to students?...Oh.

[Withano]

But then the highest earners will become the largest tax payers and they in turn will indirectly pay for the next generations education, and then those students who have no debt will get jobs and pay for the next generations education. I get your point Brillo its something like 'wahh I would have more money if tories stay in power wahh' but you got to understand others' point 'students not being in debt for their education is a pretty good idea, that way the country can remain world leaders'. Or just carry on crying about it up to you.

[arista]

6.1 INTEREST

Has killed the Whole Project
one lad paid back a year
but the Money stayed UP
due to the Evil Interest

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The attack threads have moved from Corbyn to students?...Oh.

Transparent or what.

[RichardG]

i'm not too fussed on student loans, obviously i'd ideally rather not have any debt but the way in which you repay the loans is not bad at all.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

But then the highest earners will become the largest tax payers and they in turn will indirectly pay for the next generations education, and then those students who have no debt will get jobs and pay for the next generations education. I get your point Brillo its something like 'wahh I would have more money if tories stay in power wahh' but you got to understand others' point 'students not being in debt for their education is a pretty good idea, that way the country can remain world leaders'. Or just carry on crying about it up to you.

There is no need for free uni fees - the current system works fine. What else is there to say unless people feel that everyone else, including the lower earners, should pay for their potential future higher earnings.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The attack threads have moved from Corbyn to students?...Oh.

Not really. Corbyn is the eternal student. He has yet to grow up.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The attack threads have moved from Corbyn to students?...Oh.

I like students - I used to be one. I also know quite a lot of people who are and have been students. I value education - what part of that isn't clear?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

There is no need for free uni fees - the current system works fine. What else is there to say unless people feel that everyone else, including the lower earners, should pay for their potential future higher earnings.

Yes I understand your point 'wahh', but others feel as if a new system could work better - its not all about you. Taxpayers could pay for education (an education that you too will be entitled to) and then when they graduate and get jobs, they could join in with the contribution towards education. Biggest difference is that nobody is in debt before their life has begun.
I doubt you'll be affected much at all by the way, itll be the corporations that will be targeted.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You do get carried away with that over-active imagination of yours and making lots of assumptions about what you think I really believe based on your interpretation of what I say.

I certainly do not dislike higher education - where the hell did you get that stupid idea from? I value higher education and have been there myself. That is one of the maddest things you have said and proves to me that you are no-where near having the measure of me.

Yes I do feel that they have become a breeding ground for liberal views (describing them as progressive is purely opinion) due to peer pressure which has always been very powerful and liberal views are just very 'in' with certain groups at the moment, but I also know many are more independently minded and less susceptible to it - it's about self-confidence. I also value that level of education for anyone and everyone who has the the grades and wants it. The current system provides that.

The article I posted demonstrates what a load of ballony all the drama about uni fees is. Those that will benefit the most from Corbyn's proposals will the highest earners who should pay. But all the scare-tactics also provided him with a lot of young votes. All is fair in love, war and elections hey!

You regularly attacked students during the election and you've often been seen to take a negative view on Unis using the excuse of PC. It's fairly obvious what your views on higher education are. A history of similar posts tell a more convincing story than one denial.

As for the bolded point, I literally laughed out loud. The current system doesn't provide for everyone that wants it, even if you do have the grades you might not be able to go due to the ridiculous amount of debt that the average student has to put themself in to merely learn. The delusion is real if you believe the current system to be accessible for everyone. Also don't try to paint regressive conservative views as being progressive, At their core a liberal view point is about looking to the future and becoming more progressive, a conservative view point is all about looking to the past and going backwards.

Oh hello second mention of Corbyn by Brillopad in an unrelated thread today. Somebody might think you have a crush.

[Toy Soldier]

I do find it quite depressing that people believe that the only need for higher education is "to get higher earnings"... and that the simple pursuit of knowledge and progressing civilisation through education isn't reason enough for people to want to support that education being free and accessible.

Yes it is important for people to earn enough, hopefully doing something that they enjoy, in order to live the lifestyle they want comfortably. Beyond that? There is SO much more to life -- and to education / academia -- it's not all about a bigger pay cheque! Breaking everything down to that is so, so bleak.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

As for the bolded point, I literally laughed out loud. The current system doesn't provide for everyone that wants it, even if you do have the grades you might not be able to go due to the ridiculous amount of debt that the average student has to put themself in to merely learn. The delusion is real if you believe the current system to be accessible for everyone. Also don't try to paint regressive conservative views as being progressive, At their core a liberal view point is about looking to the future and becoming more progressive, a conservative view point is all about looking to the past and going backwards.

To be fair... the debt isn't a blockade to anyone, it's only... highly offputting for many. That is to say - taking on that future debt is a choice that anyone can make, it isn't means-tested like a credit card, it doesn't matter if someone's parents are billionaires or struggling on benefits, the loans are available to all. So anyone CAN go to University without having to pay anything upfront. The question is only whether or not one is willing to accept the huge amount of debt that comes afterwards.

That's not to say there isn't a difference though; it's a lot easier to take on that debt when money "isn't an issue" for your family. Ł50k debt doesn't sound like a huge figure to someone who has grown up with parents on a combined six-figure salary. Whereas it sounds like an absolute mountain to someone who has grown up with a Ł40 pair of shoes being considered a significant expense.

So, at least we are not (yet) anywhere near the situation they have in the US, where fees are absolutely insane, sometimes tens of thousands - or even over a hundred thousand - dollars per year. Mind boggling. And in the US it often is a case of either having to have rich parents who can afford to pay, OR chase competitive scholarships. There's a reason that high-school and college sports are huge in the US... for many, a sports scholarship is their only route to decent higher education.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You regularly attacked students during the election and you've often been seen to take a negative view on Unis using the excuse of PC. It's fairly obvious what your views on higher education are. A history of similar posts tell a more convincing story than one denial.

As for the bolded point, I literally laughed out loud. The current system doesn't provide for everyone that wants it, even if you do have the grades you might not be able to go due to the ridiculous amount of debt that the average student has to put themself in to merely learn. The delusion is real if you believe the current system to be accessible for everyone. Also don't try to paint regressive conservative views as being progressive, At their core a liberal view point is about looking to the future and becoming more progressive, a conservative view point is all about looking to the past and going backwards.

Oh hello second mention of Corbyn by Brillopad in an unrelated thread today. Somebody might think you have a crush.

I criticised students for wanting/expecting a free ride and for jumping on the PC bandwagon. That has bugger all to do with higher education itself. They are two separate entities - would of thought that was obvious.

As for Corbyn - take off about 40 years, add some hair, fill him out a bit, better teeth, add a bit of personality and change his political views and maybe, just maybe - on second thoughts. You seem to think he is all that - maybe he is more your type.

What ridiculous amount of debt - only for high earners. Sorry, I don't buy into this sense of entitlement many these days seem to have.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I criticised students for wanting/expecting a free ride and for jumping on the PC bandwagon. That has bugger all to do with higher education itself. They are two separate entities - would of thought that was obvious.

As for Corbyn - take off about 40 years, add some hair, fill him out a bit, better teeth, add a bit of personality and change his political views and maybe, just maybe - on second thoughts. You seem to think he is all that - maybe he is more your type.

What ridiculous amount of debt - only for high earners. Sorry, I don't buy into this sense of entitlement many these days seem to have.

Of course it's linked, it's utterly foolish to think it isn't. One can't exist without the other, I'd have thought that would have been obvious. The fee serves as a limiter to who can attend, a lack of fees would likely result in a lot of unis becoming more than a breeding ground for the next generation of Tory Toffs. Education is a right, not an entitlement and it's worrying that you believe it to be the latter.

This whole argument of 'entitlement' just comes across as bitterness from an older generation. 'I had it hard so now I demand that everyone suffers with me!'

The rest is just more Corbyn obsession and 'I know you are but what am I'' defenses.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Of course it's linked, it's utterly foolish to think it isn't. One can't exist without the other, I'd have thought that would have been obvious. The fee serves as a limiter to who can attend, a lack of fees would likely result in a lot of unis becoming more than a breeding ground for the next generation of Tory Toffs. Education is a right, not an entitlement and it's worrying that you believe it to be the latter.

This whole argument of 'entitlement' just comes across as bitterness from an older generation. 'I had it hard so now I demand that everyone suffers with me!'

The rest is just more Corbyn obsession and 'I know you are but what am I'' defenses.

I didn't have it hard but I take pride in paying my own way. Free education is an entitlement up to 19/20. After that people should take financial responsibility for their own choices.

As for Corbyn - he is the man alright - he is the man who, if given half the chance, plans to decimate our nuclear defence, open our borders and expose us all to more violence and terrorism, increase our taxes and control our thought processes - so forgive me if I am a little 'obsessed by him'. His thought processes endanger the rest of us so I think it is a natural place to be.

As for that ridiculous expression you churn out in practically every post 'I know you are but what am I' - what does that even really mean. Do you even know!

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Let's be real though, this isn't about Student Loans for you. You dislike Higher education because you think it's a breeding ground for progressive, diverse and liberal viewpoints and that's why you are for limiting access to it by trashing any movement to abolish Uni fees.

It's a similar attitude that republicans and right leaning politicians have in the US, support for higher learning is at an all time low from those politicians and it's essentially because they rely on ignorance to stay in power and it's the same for the Tories. If Uni becomes more accessible to everyone then the Tories will lose their grip on the working class sheep that they rely so heavily on.

yes lets waste billions of tacx payers money that could save lives and cure cancer, lets waste it on unintelligent people getting degrees in david beckham or other such nonsense that will simply never provide anyone with a career

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by the truth

unintelligent people getting degrees in david beckham or other such nonsense that will simply never provide anyone with a career

[jet]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

As for Corbyn - take off about 40 years, add some hair, fill him out a bit, better teeth, add a bit of personality and change his political views and maybe, just maybe - on second thoughts. You seem to think he is all that - maybe he is more your type.

Oh Brillo.
Well they do say love is blind. Or like attracts like.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Why be so dismissive? Truth has a point. Too many kids are pushed into
inferior Uni's by teachers and parents by the skin of their teeth with non impressive grades. Many study for pretty useless degrees because at the end of it all there will be dozens of applicants for every job out there. It shouldn't be something one does 'because everyone does it or is expected to'.

Statistics show that more than half go on to work in careers that don't need those pieces of paper. They can't find work at all in the area they invested at least 4 years in.
Only the academically able should enter Uni, fees should apply to those that can afford to pay and grants should be available to those that can't. Inferior Uni's need to get their act together and stop exploiting young people.
Uni should absolutely not be for everyone and anyone, imo. It's far from the be all and end all for many and it certainly shouldn't be a 'free for all' at the expense of far more essential services.