[Babayaro.]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

we didn't see Carl in that vision though

Because he's dead, and he knew he was dying. If it was Rick's vision then why wouldn't Carl be in it?

[Strictly Jake]

Yeah the visions were how Carl pictured the future to be not literally how it will turn out though so maybe negan won't be good in the end there may be a chance he gets killed in the war. It will probably pan out that you know either rick or negan has died and don't find out until the end or next year

[Cal.]

Spoiler:

Omfgggg at Rick keeping Negan alive. Really not interested anymore.

The only thing that keeps me intrigued going forward is the fact that Maggie, Jesus and Daryl are ready to turn on Rick.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cal.

Spoiler:

Omfgggg at Rick keeping Negan alive. Really not interested anymore.

The only thing that keeps me intrigued going forward is the fact that Maggie, Jesus and Daryl are ready to turn on Rick.

Spoiler:

well now at least Negan can give the information what he saw at the junkyard, Georgie's helikopter and Rick kept Negan alive probably because Carl wanted that, for Rick to become a different person

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Cal.

Spoiler:

Omfgggg at Rick keeping Negan alive. Really not interested anymore.

The only thing that keeps me intrigued going forward is the fact that Maggie, Jesus and Daryl are ready to turn on Rick.

Spoiler:

I was ****ing screaming at how sinister Maggie came across in that scene
Falls a bit flat if she does end up leaving though especially when they begin filming VERY soon

What I didn't like about the comics is that, Maggie agreed to the idea of keeping Negan alive since it's what Glenn would've wanted. In a way, yes, she honoured Glenn and his peaceful ways (well, for a ZA, Comic!Glenn didn't kill anyone).
I guess that would've fell through with how she said Glenn sorta led them to war in 7x16's monologue? Especially with Glenn having killed people in the TV show. I always thought that was a weird divergence since we never see how killing people affected Glenn despite how hesitant he was, but I'm gonna guess that this was the reason for - so Maggie doesn't agree with such bull**** of keeping Negan alive.

I'm sorta SHOOK they're seemingly willingly throwing a wrench in the Rick/Daryl friendship when people fangirl over it so much - not complaining though.

Aw Anne (formerly Jadis) is joining Alexandria that's sweet

Also I LOVED that Oceanside helped out (it was a buildup for half a season like but meh)

Idk I felt like this was a great season for tying up loose ends! Even if Heath and Sherry are nowhere to be found... but meh we can solve them next season.
We should be seeing the Whisperers VERY soon but I can only wonder how the whole Lydia **** will work with Carl dead. Part of me's believing Georgie is from the Commonwealth, or if not she had some relation the helicopter. Regardless, if there's one thing this episode did right, it was setting up Season 9

[Jordan.]

Spoiler:

The Maggie scene had me SHAKING she better snatch Rick

[Strictly Jake]

That last episode that I was very much looking forward to was......

A load of garbage I was so disappointed it was all so unbelievable and cheesy and cringe

Only good thing about it was the fact Eugene double crossed negan what a guy!!

Maggie Jesus and Daryl....completely silly

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

Spoiler:

The Maggie scene had me SHAKING she better snatch Rick

Spoiler:

Maggie is a crazy bitch, Rick had just finally seen the light now and yes i can imagine Negan telling them things what he saw from Georgie's helikopter, if she has that stuff what more does she need from Hilltop/Alexandria/Kingdom, i can see Georgie becoming season 9's villain but also since Lauren Cohan said she would leave the series i can see her going all crazy and then possibly being killed by Rick

[Niamh.]

Keeping Negan alive ffs

[Babayaro.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Keeping Negan alive ffs

I hated that right before Rick slit his throat, Negan seemed to be crying?? Which was clearly an attempt at making us feel sympathetic towards him.


However, this is probably the most intrigued I have been for a new season. I'm glad they never ended it on a silly cliffhanger. Season nine has been set up perfectly.

[Babayaro.]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...s-pure-filler/

Lol so true

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

Spoiler:

The Maggie scene had me SHAKING she better snatch Rick

Spoiler:

It's surreal how Maggie's been a leader of a community for not even 2 seasons and is better than Rick

Maggie just has me shook in general. When she delivered the walker Savior to Negan When she led Hilltop to Alexandria in 7x16 ugh just Maggie in general. Lauren's amazing and while I can't imagine a Maggie recast, I don't want to lose Maggie, even if it means Lauren gets to escape this ****show

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Keeping Negan alive ffs

A few comic spoilers regarding the future of the show:

Spoiler:

Negan becomes a sorta big character in the Whisperer War and how it ends. Also Maggie ends up getting closure in the end but it took too ****ing long imo

That aside, Negan's death really.... could've done with being a divergence from the comics. Obviously JDM and Negan are massive fan-favs and is probably gonna have the same plot armour as Daryl and outlive Rick .

Sasha died trying to kill Negan, the entire plan was pretty much centred around killing Negan. That's what they constantly said. Rick EMPHASISED "I told you I was gonna kill you" and built it up to be a thing..that he was actually gonna kill him. Yet nothing lmao. And I can't accept 'this isn't what Glenn would want' as an answer when Maggie doesn't raise this as a point in the TV show, and I highly doubt Abe would want Negan to live

Like I get that Rick's trying to 'honour' Carl (that's still such bull**** lmao how much time difference was there between 7x16 and Season 8?? Not a lot. Carl made the first shot in 7x16 and killed a few Saviors trying to get to Negan in 7a. And then in the first episode of Season 8 he develops some sorta pacifist mindset and it's like... what made him have that epiphany?

I'm not saying at all Rick shouldn't have listened to his son's ideas (which he still could've done by sparing the Saviors as he did) or honour them but to have him call the shots over Eugene and Rosita (who lost Abraham and no doubt were they affected by Sasha's death), Daryl (his best friend, an abuse survivor, who was tortured by the man), Maggie (who lost Sasha and most of all, obviously, Glenn) and the other who were under his rule

I personally believe he should've died but if he were to live why couldn't they have everyone discuss it and come to an agreement? They've set up for tension between Maggie/Daryl/Jesus and Rick/Michonne and I just don't believe that they wouldn't act on it within this timeskip they're doing (obviously it depends on how long it is but if they stick with two years... yeah I can't imagine them waiting out trying to plan against Rick to kill Negan. It's an understandable conflict yes but it's not gonna have a satisfying pay-off)
Like that's what I at least liked about Negan being allowed to live in the comics. In the TV show it's just Rick calling the shot and ignoring everything he said and the otherswho died so Negan could die. He should've at least acknowledged and honoured them

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...s-pure-filler/

Lol so true

sounds like a much better series

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...s-pure-filler/

Lol so true

The site wants me to take my ad-block away.

What does the article say if you don't mind me asking?

[Babayaro.]

Season 8 Of 'The Walking Dead' Could Have Been 3 Episodes Long -- The Rest Was Pure Filler


This whole season of The Walking Dead should have been three episodes long.

Season 8 of The Walking Dead was 13 episodes too long.

From the start of 'All-Out War' to the bloodless end, almost all of this season could have been cut. Pare the season back to just three episodes and you have a much better season without all the extraneous filler. Sure, we'd miss some plot but we'd end up with the same exact story.


The story of Season 8 is about Rick's group fighting back against Negan, winning the war and ultimately choosing mercy over vengeance. That's the story. That's the entire arc, and it could have been done in three episodes. Almost all the important beats could have taken place in three hours instead of sixteen.

I was actually thinking two episodes when I first thought about writing this post, but I decided that a proper story has a beginning, middle and end. Three acts.

So let's talk about what these three acts would have played out, and how everything important that happened this season would have actually had more of an impact had it just taken place over three episodes. I'm going to keep most of the big things that happen the same, with a few slight changes, including Carl not dying because, honestly, it works better if he lives.


Act I - A New Hope


In Act I/Episode 1, Rick's group musters their forces. They are grim-faced and determined. No silly motivational speeches. They know what bloody business has to be done.

They go over the plan: Rick and his group will head to the Sanctuary. Ezekiel will head to the Satellite outpost. Aaron will lead the forces in an assault at the other outpost. Daryl and his team will lead the horde to the Sanctuary.

Off they go. They take out some scouts along the way, then show up at the Sanctuary. In a surprise twist, the Trash People show up having received Rick's offer off-screen. A tiny bit of exposition reveals this. Everyone has amassed to take down the Saviors.

(Oceanside doesn't show up this season at all in my version because let's face it: All that time spent with Aaron and Enid trying to convince them to help so they could show up and throw Molotov cocktails at the Saviors at Hilltop was a monumental waste.)

Instead of being close up, however, Rick is only able to get outside the fences. It's a long shot and when he takes it, he misses Negan. Negan's people fire back. There's a clear sense of what's going on rather than just shooting at the windows and then the truck breaks through and the zombies poor into the compound. Success!

During this same episode we see the other attacks going on. These are largely successful except the Kingdom's group is slaughtered by a machine gun. Carol takes out the gun and the guys shooting it with a grenade or dynamite or something. She, Jerry and Ezekiel make their way back to the Kingdom and the tiger gets killed by zombies on the way.

Over at the third compound, Eric is killed during the fight but the good guys win. They find the baby and Aaron brings it back to Maggie at the Hilltop. Dwight is still stuck in the Sanctuary as is Eugene but we can just leave Gabriel back at the Hilltop. Gregory is also still at the Sanctuary.


Act II - The Saviors Strike Back


This episode opens to Carl finding Siddiq and deciding to bring him back. He's not bitten along the way. When he gets back he sees all the wounded from the battle and he thinks about his life and instead of writing letters, he calls Negan on the radio and tells him he needs to make peace. Asks him to stop fighting. Then he goes and tells his dad the same thing.

But Negan doesn't listen and neither does Rick (yet.) The war is still on.

Oddly enough, about the same time Carl is telling his dad that he needs to make peace, a mysterious trio arrives at Hilltop. They give Maggie valuable information about how to build stuff and grow crops and make medicine. All they want in return is Gregory's record collection.

The Saviors are getting low on bullets because most of their stores of ammo were at the third outpost, and this is why Rick's group has a bunch of bullets still, because they captured that outpost and found the ammunition stores.


Eugene reveals that he can make bullets out of all the empty casings they have. He also says he can get them out of this mess with the zombies, and he creates the little drone/stereo thing. Dwight doesn't try to stop him in this version and Eugene's ploy works. The zombies are lured away and Negan begins planning their assault while Eugene and a team of Saviors start making bullets.

Dwight listens in and then instructs Gregory to take the plans back to Hilltop. Gregory goes along with it, but Negan finds out about Dwight. Maybe someone (Laura?) hears him telling Gregory what to do and rats him out. Either way, Dwight is discovered and his plan to help Rick's group turns into an opportunity for Negan to lay his trap.

The Saviors only have enough bullets and soldiers left to retaliate against the Kingdom, the Trash People and Alexandria. So Negan sends Simon to deal with the Trash People, telling him to get their guns and kill one of them only, and sends Gavin to attack the Kingdom and capture Ezekiel. Negan goes to Alexandria and firebombs it. Rick and his group escape to Hilltop with the help of Carl who distracts Negan long enough for everyone to hide in the sewers.

The Kingdom is stormed and Ezekiel is captured and taken back to the Sanctuary. Simon freaks out and kills all the Trash People except for Jadis who hides and survives. Only Hilltop is safe. Dwight is taken prisoner by Negan and thrown in a cell with Ezekiel. Eugene is making bullets.


Act III - The Return Of The...Survivors


So the Kingdom has been hobbled. Carol gets to Hilltop at the same time as Rick and his crew and they read over the stolen plans that Gregory brought them. Carol let's them know that Ezekiel's been taken prisoner. Not long after they arrive, Jadis shows up and tells them what happened to her people, demanding justice.

Rick radios Negan and tells him that there will never be peace because he can't be trusted. Just look at what he did to the Trash People. This clues Negan into Simon's treachery and he goes down, and instead of fighting him he just bashes his head in with Lucille. This avoids the silly fight the two had (where Simon really ought to have won.)

Negan is angry now, and he's fed up with dealing with Rick. "Fine, you want a war. I'll give you a war." He's done playing nice with Rick. He's been betrayed by Simon and Dwight. He's ready to put an end to this. When Eugene hears this he decides to start tampering with the bullets. (But not all of the bullets. Just enough to mess up the assault and give Rick a better chance.)


A day or two of preparation passes. Ezekiel is in bad shape. Dwight is in bad shape.

The time comes to go fight. According to the plans Dwight smuggled them (fake plans, of course) the day has come when Negan will be out on the road, ready to ambush. They think they know where he'll be. But it's a trap, of course, and the date was only chosen so Eugene could make enough bullets.



Negan boasts about his own plans and the ambush he has made to Eugene and to the prisoners, Dwight and Ezekiel. They show up to the ambush spot and when Rick arrives they attack. Some of the guns fire fine, but others---including Negan's handgun---backfire. He can't shoot Ezekiel or Dwight so he grabs his bat and takes a swing, but Eugene throws himself in front of the attack and gets smashed in the head. He hits the dirt. Negan is about to take another swing when he's shot. Rick hits him in the leg or the arm or something. Nothing too serious, but enough to make him stop.

Then Negan runs. The battle isn't going well. It's not the silly line of dominoes we saw in the finale, but a lot of the Saviors' guns have backfired. Those who haven't are outgunned by Rick's people. The ambush in tatters, Negan tries to make good his escape but Rick chases after him.


Negan is limping from the gunshot wound so Rick is able to chase him down easily. He flings himself at the fleeing Savior boss, tackling him to the ground. They fight, but Rick isn't wounded and Negan is. Soon he has Negan on his back and he's punching him over and over and over again. Negan's face is bloody. We hear the crunching sounds of bones breaking. Think Jon Snow vs. Ramsay Bolton here right after the Battle of the Bastards. Rick is going to kill him. He looks over, sees Lucille lying there, and grabs it.



"Dad, no!" It's Carl. He's standing there, a pleading look on his face. The Saviors have surrendered and everyone is just standing there watching silently. There are many wounded. (If I had it my way there would be quite a few dead, like Gabriel and Eugene, but we'll just say there's many wounded.) Everyone is staring at Rick. His fists are bloody. Blood is in his eyes and his hair and speckled across his face. He's holding Lucille up as if he's going to strike. He has a pained look on his face.

Carl walks over and takes the bat from his father's hands. "There has to be something after all this," he says. "Something better." Rick lets the bat go. He seems deflated.

Then Negan starts laughing, bloodied, his jaw broken, his eyes swollen, but laughing anyways. "You got one helluva kid, Rick," he says through bloody lips. Rick turns, that cold killer look flickering across his face, and then he hits him, hard, and Negan is out. "Take him back to the Hilltop," Rick tells his people. He gives a short and sweet speech about everyone living together now. "Negan is done," he says. "It's time to start over. Do this better."


Maggie looks angry but isn't freaking out. She's not stupid. Later, instead of recruiting Jesus (seriously Jesus?) and Daryl to her cause of...opposing Rick and killing Negan, I guess?---instead of that, she just stares down from the mansion's window, a dark look on her face as Rick and crew drag Negan to his cell. Ominous music plays. She looks over to her left and there's Rosita, an equally dark look on her face. They say nothing. We think of Abraham and Glenn, dead in the dirt. Brains and bits of skull.

We're left wondering what they're thinking.

Dwight is free, and Daryl let's him go look for Sherry. Siddiq and Carl help bandage up the wounded. Peace descends upon the valley.

The End.

Filler

What do we miss cutting out all the rest? We lose Oceanside. We lose the scenes with Gabriel and Negan. We lose a bunch of Eugene dialog. We lose Rick going to recruit Jadis since that's handled off-screen before the season even begins. We lose Carl's death.


We lose almost nothing, is what I'm trying to say. Virtually nothing is missing from my three episode version. Instead we get:

An opening episode with lots of coherent action that puts the Saviors in a bind.
A second episode where Saviors strike back, finding out that Dwight betrayed them, capturing the King and hobbling the Kingdom and Alexandria. We're now poised for a final showdown.
A final episode with a big battle where Eugene's double-betrayal leads to Rick's victory, and where Carl's intervention saves Negan's life rather than Carl's death eight episodes earlier. We get a much more dramatic final scene between Rick and Negan and no silly throat-cutting fake-out. And we get some small sense that all is not well with our heroes, that Maggie is upset and who knows what she's thinking? Rick makes the right choice thanks to Carl and Carl is alive.
Final shot: The camera lifts up from the scene at Hilltop, up up up into the air. Happy music playing. A scene of togetherness and beauty below us. But as we pull up higher we see them: The biggest horde of walkers we've ever seen, heading this way. Cue the theme music. Cut to black.
And that's how it's done, folks.

Morgan could still leave. Simon is still dead. We could easily add in other character deaths. Have Eugene die saving Ezekiel. Have Tara get killed in the second episode fighting for Alexandria. Have Gabriel die in the final fight or just in a zombie attack. There are plenty of ways to thin the herd.

The point is, all the most important story beats are contained in my three episodes above. We've trimmed the fat. The boring speeches are gone. The whole silly storyline with Henry is gone. Morgan's madness could still shine through in some of these moments, but it wouldn't have to be such a large focus. Oceanside is gone and if they need to they can return next season now that Negan has been toppled and Simon, the guy who actually slaughtered their people, is dead.

Basically any important little details not in my summaries above could easily be added or shuffled over to the next season.

And this is the problem with The Walking Dead. It's so much filler. So much bad dialogue. So many pointless episodes. How many battles did we watch that led to nothing? No meaningful outcomes. Why do we need to see Rick fail at killing Negan so many times? Why do we need to see the same conversations play out over and over again? Just figure out the story you want to tell and tell it in the best way possible.


Sure, you could expand this to a full eight episodes and probably be fine, so long as you added in some other driving conflicts beyond 'All Out War.' For instance, an interesting conflict could have blossomed between Rick and Daryl. Rick wants to be more merciful; Daryl wants more blood. Maybe Maggie supports Daryl while Carol supports Rick. Factions form and different philosophies crash into one another, sparking new conflicts between the group. The same thing is essentially taking place between Negan and Simon.

The point is not that this season needed to be three episodes long. The point is that only three episodes worth of decent content took place across sixteen episodes, and that's a massive problem. There's room for episodes that don't have a lot happen. I'm fine with learning backstory. I'd love to see more world-building episodes, where we see the group just trying to survive. Where we see them jarring food and tilling soil and all the rest.

But right now we have too much bloat. The cast is too big. The seasons are too long. I'd love to see ten-episode seasons, but even if AMC decided to keep the longer seasons they should at the very least model them after a show like Gotham which often wraps up an initial conflict by the midseason finale which then feeds into a second, often more dire, conflict in the second half.

P.S. I'd also love to see Enid go. She's so pointless. But even better than that, it would be cool if we discovered she'd been a spy the whole time. She sure seemed like she was going to be a spy for the Wolves. What if she'd actually been a spy for the Saviors? Or what if she's in the same mysterious group that Jadis is in? And yes, we'd need a glimpse of the chopper in there somewhere. Maybe after Simon's mass slaughter of the Trash People, Jadis looks up and sees the helicopter flying by. She tries to signal it but it's too late.

@Mock

[Natalie.]

I hope Dwight comes back
Guess he's going where he and Sherry had their honeymoon?

[Jordan.]

I'm hoping Dwight gets his own side story next series

[Niamh.]

Yeah would like to see what's happens with him

[Babayaro.]

Who else cringed at Oceanside's very brief and anticlimactic appearance lol?

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

Who else cringed at Oceanside's very brief and anticlimactic appearance lol?

I liked it bc I like Oceanside but they were on screen for 2 seconds and they just were... irrelevant. What was the point of the Hilltop attack

[Ammi]

..it was a good last episode of the season...but it did feel for me as though it could have ended there..with Dwight going off to see if his wife was still alive, with Negan being imprisoned and all of the groups working together etc...obviously other than Maggie, Jesus and Daryl in their intentions to overthrow Rick...

..I had a feeling Eugene had done something with the bullets and was never on board with Negan but working against him...although I enjoyed the last few episodes a lot more, I’m not sure if I’ll stay with it for the next season...sometimes it’s felt a bit of a chore to watch and keep following...

[Firewire]

Whisky Cavalier has been ordered to series by ABC with Lauren Cohan in the co-lead role

http://tvline.com/2018/05/11/whiskey...-series-order/

Season 9 will probably be Maggie's last

[Firewire]

Andy Lincoln is leaving

http://collider.com/andrew-lincoln-l...-dead-season-9

[Babayaro.]

Daryl taking over is tragic

[Firewire]

Also Lauren Cohan is only going to be in 6 episodes of the season