[Liberty4eva]

In today's world, if a person born a biological man feels like they are a woman (or vice versa), most people on this board would respect that and adjust which pronoun to use (he or she) accordingly. I think most people on here would be alright with them going into the bathroom of their choosing. To suggest otherwise is hateful and intolerant.

My question is if this is alright, why can't we do the same with race? Most African Americans have a little bit of white blood in them (on average 20%) so why can't they say they are white? I wouldn't be surprised if I had a small percentage of non-white blood in me so why can't I claim to be something else? If we can decide what gender we are, it should be okay for us to decide what race we are. When applying to colleges I would claim to be African American and then try to reap the benefits of affirmative action.

[Withano]

Gender is not a biological trait passed from parent to child, race is an evolutionary trait that exists to protect those closer to the equator from getting sun-based diseases such as skin cancer, and allows those further away from the equator to soak in as much of their limited sunlight as possible to retrieve more of the health benefits that the sun can have. Gender is innate, race is hereditary.

There are people that define as transracial, you can be one of those if you want to, but as of yet there is no scientific study that claims these people are anything but completely deluded, I can't imagine that a scientific paper on this will ever exist, you are not innately your own (or any other) skin tone. We all are innately the gender we identify as though, and there are several academic neurological research papers acknowledging the fact that some people are simply born with the wrong set of genitals.

In transgender people, research has shown male-to-female transgender brains are more likely to resemble female brains in size and the placement of neuron density. The reverse is true for female-to-male transgender brains.

Twin and genetic studies repeatedly publish significant findings too.

The comparison you made doesn't make sense to me. Gender and race are not similar, at all.

[iRyan]

There is also a distinguished difference between gender and sex. Gender is psychological, sex is physically biological. Biologically speaking, you are born either male, female, or intersex. But psychologically, you can identify your gender in a way that may not fit with the societal traits associated with your birth-sex. It can be so intense, that you literally feel as though you were born in the wrong body. But really, all gender identity is a social construct. It can certainly exist as almost exclusively masculine, or exclusively feminine - but there's the entire spectrum in between as well that every individual falls differently upon.

Male (+masculinity) and female (+femininity) is what we typically associate with gender, but personally, I believe gender cannot truly be defined in only these two terms - but it's a very simple construct that society and language has imposed upon us and we all play along.

I think that transgender people do not feel comfortable in their birth-sex due to the societal expectations associated with it that do not resonate with them at all mentally or emotionally. And society will only accept them as one or the other, to be ambiguous or 'impassable' puts them at a greater risk of unsafety.

[Oliver_W]

We can't decide our gender. Gender is the sex of your brain. Transwomen have roughly the same brain chemistry as women, which makes them feel like they need to transition. But not all do transition, so I guess the "choice" there is to chose how you wish society to perceive your gender.

[Dominic]

Gender is not a social, but a biological construct.

Male brains are 10% larger than female brains (and that's not saying that men are smarter). Men have 7% more grey matter in the brain. In the cerebellum, men have more connections between hemispheres, which means an increased ability to translate perception into motor skill and ability, recognizing a threat and acting on it. Throughout evolution, males had to perform greater physical feats to defend the females and the children of the tribe, ensuring their survivability of its bloodline. In other words, men are more agressive.

Women have 10% more white matter in the brain. They have more connections across the frontal lobes, which translates to an increased empathy, social skills and nurturing behaviours. This is essential to raising children, which women are wired for.

Hormones also dictate certain behaviors and inclinations of the genders. Higher testosterone, which males have, fuels behaviors such as competitiveness, a high sex drive, agression and providing resources to attract potential mates. Add to that what I said about male brains and that's why the majority of cops and firefighters are men, they're naturally drawn to hero roles and have the instinct to protect.

Women, who have more estrogen, have the instinct to nurture, empathize. That's why, according to statistics, women mostly tend to choose majors and jobs that involve helping others, such as psychology, nursing, child developement etc. Estrogen also results in the instinct for women to make themselves physically attractive for potential mates. That's why there's a billion dollar beauty industry and why women tend to make themselves attractive with make-up and other beauty products.

The structure of the brains of transgender women are similar to biological women. The same exact case is for trans men, their brains are more similair to the brains of biological men.

Gender is biology, that's how evolution has mapped out our survival as a species. We're animals and we're driven by our biology.

[Dominic]

Originally Posted by iRyan

I think that transgender people do not feel comfortable in their birth-sex due to the societal expectations associated with it that do not resonate with them at all mentally or emotionally. And society will only accept them as one or the other, to be ambiguous or 'impassable' puts them at a greater risk of unsafety.

They don't feel comfortable in their birth sex, because they suffer from gender dysphoria, a mental condition of feeling one's emotional and psychological identity as male or female to be opposite to one's biological sex. It is listed in in the ICD-10 CM as a mental disorder (and there's nothing wrong with that, it's natural) and it's medically diagnosable.

[Livia]

I love the definitive "no" that this thread is throwing back. Who makes the decisions?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...-a7653131.html

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dominic

Gender is not a social, but a biological construct.
Etc

Yeah, I don't get how people can say it's a social construct, I've yet to hear any of the "socially constructed" roles each gender has which isn't explained by biology.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dominic

Gender is not a social, but a biological construct.

Male brains are 10% larger than female brains (and that's not saying that men are smarter). Men have 7% more grey matter in the brain. In the cerebellum, men have more connections between hemispheres, which means an increased ability to translate perception into motor skill and ability, recognizing a threat and acting on it. Throughout evolution, males had to perform greater physical feats to defend the females and the children of the tribe, ensuring their survivability of its bloodline. In other words, men are more agressive.

Women have 10% more white matter in the brain. They have more connections across the frontal lobes, which translates to an increased empathy, social skills and nurturing behaviours. This is essential to raising children, which women are wired for.

Hormones also dictate certain behaviors and inclinations of the genders. Higher testosterone, which males have, fuels behaviors such as competitiveness, a high sex drive, agression and providing resources to attract potential mates. Add to that what I said about male brains and that's why the majority of cops and firefighters are men, they're naturally drawn to hero roles and have the instinct to protect.

Women, who have more estrogen, have the instinct to nurture, empathize. That's why, according to statistics, women mostly tend to choose majors and jobs that involve helping others, such as psychology, nursing, child developement etc. Estrogen also results in the instinct for women to make themselves physically attractive for potential mates. That's why there's a billion dollar beauty industry and why women tend to make themselves attractive with make-up and other beauty products.

The structure of the brains of transgender women are similar to biological women. The same exact case is for trans men, their brains are more similair to the brains of biological men.

Gender is biology, that's how evolution has mapped out our survival as a species. We're animals and we're driven by our biology.

And yet, despite all this "evidence" (and I'm not getting started on your explanation of oestrogen), Those born female have 'XX' chromosomes and those born male have "XY" chromosomes and all the surgery and counselling in the world is not going to change that.

[Toy Soldier]

The reason it's pretty much nonsense, though, is because the differences between ethnicities beyond physical appearance are ENTIRELY cultural. Black people and white people don't "feel" inherently different or have different personality traits based on genetics .

A middle-class African American doctor living in the suburbs has far more in common with his middle-class white neighbours than he does with an LA gang member, for example. Rich Japanese kids sent to private schools in the UK or the US end up having much more in common with their classmates than they do with their parents. Etc. etc.

There are distinct, measurable differences between the brain chemistry of men and women. There are NO such differences between humans of different races. The inherent differences are purely in skin / hair etc. colour and a few other physical features.

Pretending otherwise is actually quite dangerous and is what leads to ideas of racial supremacy. The idea that one race is more intelligent than another, or stronger than another. The idea that people can be genetically predisposed to violence or criminality, regardless of how they are raised or how their life goes.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The reason it's pretty much nonsense, though, is because the differences between ethnicities beyond physical appearance are ENTIRELY cultural. Black people and white people don't "feel" inherently different or have different personality traits based on genetics .

A middle-class African American doctor living in the suburbs has far more in common with his middle-class white neighbours than he does with an LA gang member, for example. Rich Japanese kids sent to private schools in the UK or the US end up having much more in common with their classmates than they do with their parents. Etc. etc.

There are distinct, measurable differences between the brain chemistry of men and women. There are NO such differences between humans of different races. The inherent differences are purely in skin / hair etc. colour and a few other physical features.

Pretending otherwise is actually quite dangerous and is what leads to ideas of racial supremacy. The idea that one race is more intelligent than another, or stronger than another. The idea that people can be genetically predisposed to violence or criminality, regardless of how they are raised or how their life goes.

I agree somewhat with that... except the bit about racial superiority as if that's not transferable. It's only during the last fifty or so years that women have gained some equality with men in the west, but all over the globe billions of women are still subjugated.. but this doesn't seem to affect males identifying with, and wanting to become, female.

Like John Lennon said, "woman is the n****r of the world".

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

I agree somewhat with that... except the bit about racial superiority as if that's not transferable. It's only during the last fifty or so years that women have gained some equality with men in the west, but all over the globe billions of women are still subjugated.. but this doesn't seem to affect males identifying with, and wanting to become, female.

Like John Lennon said, "woman is the n****r of the world".

That's different though because like I said, there are clear genetic differences between the genders, and one obviously is both physically and intellectually superior .

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's different though because like I said, there are clear genetic differences between the genders, and one obviously is both physically and intellectually superior .

Obviously... But do you know which sex is physically and intellectually superior? Ask you wife, TS... she'll tell ya...

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Livia

I love the definitive "no" that this thread is throwing back. Who makes the decisions?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...-a7653131.html

Are you suggesting that being transracial is a real thing that people can innately be? If so why? have you read any scientific papers on it or just this womans story.
I was very interested in that Rachel woman a few years back. And although the parralells that people draw between race and gender appear to be nonsense for the many reasons above that you've dismissed with this one link(?), I'd love to read something that suggests otherwise?
I did read once that her mindset of her identifying as black is most likely linked to her traumatic childhood where her brother(? Forgot who tbf) forced her to eat her own vomit, and the researcher suggested that it makes sense that is likely why she wants to identify as a group that she also feels was, or is, suppressed by others. The same can't be said for transgenders who often grow up without any form of suppression. The parallels between the two that people make confuse me, its just entirely illogical.

[Denver]

Can I be white? They have it so easy

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Withano

Are you suggesting that being transracial is a real thing that people can innately be? If so why? have you read any scientific papers on it or just this womans story.
I was very interested in that Rachel woman a few years back. And although the parralells that people draw between race and gender appear to be nonsense for the many reasons above that you've dismissed with this one link(?), I'd love to read something that suggests otherwise?
I did read once that her mindset of her identifying as black is most likely linked to her traumatic childhood where her brother(? Forgot who tbf) forced her to eat her own vomit, and the researcher suggested that it makes sense that is likely why she wants to identify as a group that she also feels was, or is, suppressed by others. The same can't be said for transgenders who often grow up without any form of suppression. The parallels between the two that people make confuse me, its just entirely illogical.

We get one trip here - unless you adhere to the idea of reincarnation - so if someone identifies as a woman but was born male... or identifies with the black community but was born white, I don't have any problems with them doing everything they can to rectify what they see as a fault and to enjoy this one chance to be happy and no one should be allowed to tell them that what they're doing isn't right.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

Obviously... But do you know which sex is physically and intellectually superior? Ask you wife, TS... she'll tell ya...

You assume I wasn't already talking about females! More aesthetically pleasing, bodies capable of incubating & nourishing infants, generally much better company...

I mean, although I'm physically big and quite masculine, I'm not really into ANYTHING "blokey", other than being exclusively attracted to females . I'm basically a giant transgender lesbian.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Livia

We get one trip here - unless you adhere to the idea of reincarnation - so if someone identifies as a woman but was born male... or identifies with the black community but was born white, I don't have any problems with them doing everything they can to rectify what they see as a fault and to enjoy this one chance to be happy and no one should be allowed to tell them that what they're doing isn't right.

I dont either, identify as whatever you like, whatever makes you happy, sure. Thats not what I was asking though. There is scientific backing of 'transgender' being very real, but I dont have any reason to believe that 'transracial' is.. Your post made me assume you might have thought otherwise?

[Toy Soldier]

I mean I once went on a "lads weekend" with some mates and on the second night I stayed in the hotel and watched "Cruel Intentions". ACTUAL TRUE STORY.

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by Livia

We get one trip here - unless you adhere to the idea of reincarnation - so if someone identifies as a woman but was born male... or identifies with the black community but was born white, I don't have any problems with them doing everything they can to rectify what they see as a fault and to enjoy this one chance to be happy and no one should be allowed to tell them that what they're doing isn't right.

Great sentiment which i wholeheartedly share!

Why people get so heated about how others live their lives is extremely puzzling to me.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You assume I wasn't already talking about females! More aesthetically pleasing, bodies capable of incubating & nourishing infants, generally much better company...

I mean, although I'm physically big and quite masculine, I'm not really into ANYTHING "blokey", other than being exclusively attracted to females . I'm basically a giant transgender lesbian.

Strangely, that's how I've always imagined you :-)

Originally Posted by Withano

I dont either, identify as whatever you like, whatever makes you happy, sure. Thats not what I was asking though. There is scientific backing of 'transgender' being very real, but I dont have any reason to believe that 'transracial' is.. Your post made me assume you might have thought otherwise?

No, I don't think otherwise. Maybe "trans-racial" isn't thought of as a real thing, but I'm sure if it's in your head and you feel that's who you want to be, all the scientists in the world aren't going to be able to tell you that what you're feeling doesn't exist.

Humans are just so complex and wonderful, but sadly we as a race have so little idea what makes us work despite all our technological advancement... so I think the best we can do is try to be happy before we die.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I mean I once went on a "lads weekend" with some mates and on the second night I stayed in the hotel and watched "Cruel Intentions". ACTUAL TRUE STORY.

If you can iron and keep your mouth shut when you're told, you could be the perfect man.

Originally Posted by JTM45

Great sentiment which i wholeheartedly share!

Why people get so heated about how others live their lives is extremely puzzling to me.

Especially when the people they're getting so heated about are not generally likely to be bombers, shooters, abusers... just people trying to have a life that doesn't make them sad.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

If you can iron and keep your mouth shut when you're told, you could be the perfect man.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... My shirts are wrinkle free .

[thesheriff443]

If we got to choose then what would happen to immigration?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

... ... ... ... ... ... ... My shirts are wrinkle free .

LOL... yeah, that's what I thought.