[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Labels are silly. Let's just say I no longer buy into the belief that the Allies in WW2 were all that better than the Nazis. The world ain't black and white. Never was.

Eeeerrrrrrrrr. Whilst war is war and the "blood and bravery" images of WW2 are indeed "made pretty for public consumption", and many of the Allied forces no doubt committed terrible war crimes throughout a long and brutal war, to suggest that they weren't much better than the Nazis is a major, major stretch. Nazi ideology is abhorrent in ways that go far beyond the actual waging of war.

Were German soldiers much worse than Allied soldiers? Probably not; all were following orders and doing as they were expected to do, and many low-level German troops I'm sure absolutely hated what they were being asked to do, just as many Allied soldiers would have, and likewise many on both sides probably loved all of it.

But actual top-level Nazi brass pulling the strings? Actual genetic supremacists? About as close to "evil" as it comes in the real world.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'd bet good money that what Brillo saw was simply the national flag with arabic of a middle-eastern country (Iraq, Saudi, Yemen etc. have writing on their flags), and not an actual Jihadist black flag.

Not least because an actual ISIS member flying an ISIS flag on their house would be REALLY stupid .

I've seen an actual IS flag several times, although not on a house. I've seen one fixed to the front of a a table in East Ham High Street (junction of Pilgrims Way, to be exact) alongside a man - and I use that term in its loosest possible sense - handing out leaflets and yelling into a bullhorn. I've also seen it being carried during demonstrations. It's as much of a disgrace as flying a Nazi flag on my opinion.

As for the USA, I think people in the States have so many freedoms compared to other places in the world that they imagine Freedom of Speech is something that allows them to do and say things just to antagonise... and we all know that's not the purpose of it.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

I've seen an actual IS flag several times, although not on a house. I've seen one fixed to the front of a a table in East Ham High Street (junction of Pilgrims Way, to be exact) alongside a man - and I use that term in its loosest possible sense - handing out leaflets and yelling into a bullhorn. I've also seen it being carried during demonstrations. It's as much of a disgrace as flying a Nazi flag on my opinion.

ISIS and Nazi ideology is pretty much identical anyway, if you think about it. Both are hard right, both are supremacist with the only difference being their definition of what it means to be "chosen" (Nazis it's genetics, ISIS it's religion). Other than that their driving forces and methods they use are chillingly similar. I suppose a major difference is that since Nazis believe in genetic supremacy, they will simply want to wipe out those who aren't like they are... where as ISIS is able and willing to convert those who can be converted and kill those who won't. Which I suppose makes them dangerous in different ways.

[Dominic]

I can agree that some countries are way too extra and make **** like misgendering illegal (which I'm not saying isn't rude/offensive, but it should be apologized for and moved on and not against the law). Buuuuut I don't think free speech should go that far to justify anti-semitism and sympathize with nazis.

[MTVN]

It's pretty concerning when the two examples of free speech that you mention taking pride in are holocaust denial and flying the swastika

[Kizzy]

Personally I can see this country hurtling towards nazi ideology, distancing ourselves from the rest of Europe, media manipulation, fear of experts and intellectuals, restriction of immigration, different rules for foreigners, one 'strong and stable' leader, demonisation of the poor and disabled, distrust and panic spread relating to Muslims.

The signs are there.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It's pretty concerning when the two examples of free speech that you mention taking pride in are holocaust denial and flying the swastika

I have never voiced support for Nazism in any of my posts. I also take pride that we can burn the American flag if we want to.

[Toy Soldier]

So holocaust denial, flying the swastika but you're also ok with burning the US flag? Well that makes it OK I guess... no pattern emerging at all here...

[Tom4784]

Freedom of Speech isn't unconditional, even in the US. Whether it's legal or other consequences, ALL opinions come with consequences.

Originally Posted by Greg!

It is NOT allowed and you should have reported it as soon as you saw it.

Can't report what didn't happen.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So holocaust denial, flying the swastika but you're also ok with burning the US flag? Well that makes it OK I guess... no pattern emerging at all here...

The pattern is all of those things I have mentioned are unpopular opinions and expressions. The first amendment does not protect popular forms of speech because popular speech does not need protection. It is unpopular speech that needs protection.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It was an all black flag

... so not an ISIS flag

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Freedom of Speech isn't unconditional, even in the US. Whether it's legal or other consequences, ALL opinions come with consequences.



Can't report what didn't happen.

Really. Didn't know you were there. Or is it a habit of yours to call people liars based on no evidence whatsoever.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

... so not an ISIS flag

Alright, what was it then? An all black flag with something written on it flying high on the front of the house.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Alright, what was it then? An all black flag with something written on it flying high on the front of the house.

Sounds like a fabricated story to further a point. Idk tho.

[MB.]

"I don't believe in labels" is a reasoning used for stuff like sexuality, not "I like the Nazis but I don't want to be called a Nazi", just fyi

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

Sounds like a fabricated story to further a point. Idk tho.

Well it wasn't. That may be something you would do but I wouldn't.

The flag was on the front of a semi on a busy main road on the outskirts of London, somewhere between Chelmsford and London. As previously mentioned the house had metal grates/bars over the windows and front door as well. Thousands must have seen it.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Personally I can see this country hurtling towards nazi ideology, distancing ourselves from the rest of Europe, media manipulation, fear of experts and intellectuals, restriction of immigration, different rules for foreigners, one 'strong and stable' leader, demonisation of the poor and disabled, distrust and panic spread relating to Muslims.

The signs are there.

I think you may be over reacting a smidgeon

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I think you may be over reacting a smidgeon

Was thinking exactly the same. Just scaremongering in my opinion.

[Kizzy]

I didn't ask anyone to agree, that is my view what you make of it is of no consequence.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I didn't ask anyone to agree, that is my view what you make of it is of no consequence.

"distrust and panic spread relating to Muslims."


Would you agree that the current spate of Muslim terror may have a hand in this?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"distrust and panic spread relating to Muslims."


Would you agree that the current spate of Muslim terror may have a hand in this?

So it's Muslim terror, not isis extremist terror? Thanks you're proving my point.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Was thinking exactly the same. Just scaremongering in my opinion.

Yeah, we should ignore things like that and focus on what's REALLY scary, like muslims!

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Freedom of speech can go too far. Having a nazi (or ISIS) flag flying should always be illegal

When you start making some forms of expression illegal, it can lead your country down a dark path. Watch this video and tell me if you think this man deserved to be arrested.

Youtube video

I am glad that America has not gone down this pathway yet.

[DemolitionRed]

So this hilarious guy teaches his dog to react when he says "gas the Jews" and you want our reaction to him being arrested? I wonder how many Jews gave the thumbs up to that video.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Was thinking exactly the same. Just scaremongering in my opinion.

You mean like you do about Muslims?