[Toy Soldier]

No wait... it's about quoting articles in the first post.

[Toy Soldier]

Something something PC something something something free speech something something daaark side.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Something something PC something something something free speech something something daaark side.

Oh right, thanks TS, they all have different headings but all end up in the same senseless squabbles.
Freedom of speech as long as you believe what I believe..hardly debating, more just baiting.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Oh right, thanks TS, they all have different headings but all end up in the same senseless squabbles.
Freedom of speech as long as you believe what I believe..hardly debating, more just baiting.

News & de Baits

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I gave my opinions based on things you defend and things you don't defend in response to you giving your opinions (which btw you didn't even state them as your opinion, therefore making them sound like fact).

I stand by my right to express my view on how I find Muslim women who CHOOSE to wear a burkha in this country as disrespectful to British women and British female equality laws. I am as entitled to my opinion as you, but I did not start with the name-calling.

You do realise that many of these 'Muslim women' you keep referring to are also British women? So how does that fit into your argument?

Just to reiterate - there are British Muslims. The two are not mutually exclusive, Muslims are not some alien race of their own, implicit in your statement is an assumption that they are.

[Kizzy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet View Post
"distrust and panic spread relating to Muslims."


Would you agree that the current spate of Muslim terror may have a hand in this?

‘Rather than defusing public concerns regarding demographic and cultural change, officials have unnecessarily stoked anxiety over immigration and encouraged the growth of populist anti-immigrant sentiment,’ cross-party group of MPs say

'A damning report has accused the Government of fuelling “toxic” anti-immigrant feeling just as it emerged that ministers have for years vastly overestimated the number of foreign students staying in Britain.

The inquiry from a cross-party group of politicians said Theresa May’s discredited target of cutting net migration to under 100,000 was particularly to blame for “stoking anxiety” that has accompanied unprecedented hate crime following the Brexit vote.

It also came as new official immigration data showed the number of European Union citizens wanting to come to the UK collapsing, raising fears of a pending crisis in the labour market.'


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7911241.html

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Forgot what this thread is about now

Freedom of speech... I gave my opinion and was immediately accused of overreacting and scaremongering, so go figure :/

Freedom to agree with the collective is the only available option.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Jack_

You do realise that many of these 'Muslim women' you keep referring to are also British women? So how does that fit into your argument?

Just to reiterate - there are British Muslims. The two are not mutually exclusive, Muslims are not some alien race of their own, implicit in your statement is an assumption that they are.

Yes of course, even more reason why they should respect female equality. Do you think most women want a Britain where we go backwards because of an increase of British women in this country whose religious/cultural beliefs are at odds with such equality? Whether it be a free-thinking opinion or one foisted on them by religious indoctrination or worse, in sufficient numbers it could pose a future threat to equality for women. Women fought hard for equality so why is it so difficult for you to understand that most don't want to see that undermined?

Where do aliens come into it or is that just an over-exaggerated attempt at making some kind of banal point!! Just a respect for the values and equality of British women will do - such a silly, pointless comment in my opinion. It is only implicit if you see what you want to see!! Half the problem on here.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Yes of course, even more reason why they should respect female equality. Do you think most women want a Britain where we go backwards because of an increase of British women in this country whose religious/cultural beliefs are at odds with such equality? Whether it be a free-thinking opinion or one foisted on them by religious indoctrination or worse, in sufficient numbers it could pose a future threat to equality for women. Women fought hard for equality so why is it so difficult for you to understand that most don't want to see that undermined?

Where do aliens come into it or is that just an over-exaggerated attempt at making some kind of benal point!! Just a respect for the values and equality of British women will do - such a silly, pointless comment in my opinion.

I don't know 'most women' and neither do you so I'm not going to pretend I know which way 'most women' stand on this issue. What you need to understand is that while you are entitled to your opinion and to thinking that women wearing the burkha are somehow demeaning or even at odds with equality laws, not everyone agrees. Many of these women choose to wear one when they feel like it and that sounds like freedom of expression and equality to me. It's the same as when people try to make out that women shouldn't be entitled to wear revealing clothing, or show off their body, even slut shaming them. It works both ways, if a woman wants to wear next to nothing, and another wants to cover themselves up from head to toe, they are both empowering themselves by choosing what they want to do with their body. As a feminist you should know that. I do.

alien
ˈeɪlɪən/Submit
adjective
1.
belonging to a foreign country.

noun
noun: alien; plural noun: aliens
1.
a foreigner, especially one who is not a naturalized citizen of the country where he or she is living.

I'd have thought it would've been obvious but that's what I mean by 'aliens', not some green outer space creature. You keep making statements that imply 'British women' and 'Muslim women' are mutually exclusive, when in actual fact you can be Muslim, British and a woman! I just wanted to ensure you didn't think Muslims all come from some foreign country in their quest to ruin British equality laws or something.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Yes of course, even more reason why they should respect female equality. Do you think most women want a Britain where we go backwards because of an increase of British women in this country whose religious/cultural beliefs are at odds with such equality? Whether it be a free-thinking opinion or one foisted on them by religious indoctrination or worse, in sufficient numbers it could pose a future threat to equality for women. Women fought hard for equality so why is it so difficult for you to understand that most don't want to see that undermined?

Where do aliens come into it or is that just an over-exaggerated attempt at making some kind of banal point!! Just a respect for the values and equality of British women will do - such a silly, pointless comment in my opinion. It is only implicit if you see what you want to see!! Half the problem on here.

Whilst I kind of agree with you (I'm as anti religious as they come) forcing someone to do what you think they should do isn't a way to give these women "equality" it isn't equality if it's forced upon them. They have equal rights according to the law in Britain, it's their choice to avail of those rights or not. You may not like that but it isn't your choice. Changes within their religion has to come from those involved, the men and the women themselves. British women achieved their rights when they decided they wanted to fight for them, it wasn't a third party coming in and dictating to them what they should and shouldn't be doing.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Whilst I kind of agree with you (I'm as anti religious as they come) forcing someone to do what you think they should do isn't a way to give these women "equality" it isn't equality if it's forced upon them. They have equal rights according to the law in Britain, it's their choice to avail of those rights or not. You may not like that but it isn't your choice. Changes within their religion has to come from those involved, the men and the women themselves. British women achieved their rights when they decided they wanted to fight for them, it wasn't a third party coming in and dictating to them what they should and shouldn't be doing.

Whilst I see your point Niamh I can also see how strong religious indocrination and male control can be within certain cultures and, like many, have concerns that, in time, with suffient numbers of our population feeling that way, that could potentially override many equalities we have in this country.

Some people seem convinced that exposure to life in the West will eventually influence and Change their views. I'm not so sure. I guess time will tell, but what if it goes the other way? Where is that going to leave women? I think we have to be pro-active in protecting ourselves rather than simply assuming and hoping for the best.

[DemolitionRed]

When I walk through town on a Friday or Saturday night, I'm never surprised at how young women and some older ones behave. A woman once called me a ***t for looking in her direction. I've been deliberately pushed by a drunk ladette who was showing off to her mates and the man who used to work in the next office to me was once beaten up so badly by a bunch of women who wanted his ipad, that he was put in the hospital for three days.

I've seen women outside clubs topless. I've seen pissed up women peeing in the gutter. Do I feel intimidated by these women? Do I walk an extra half mile to avoid such women? Do I feel embarrassed for these women? The answer is yes to all of the above. I have never, however, felt any of those things when I've seen a bunch of women wearing hijab.

So Brillo, stop chanting on about Muslim women being disrespectful to our culture because as you can see from the above, it takes all sorts to make up a culture.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

When I walk through town on a Friday or Saturday night, I'm never surprised at how young women and some older ones behave. A woman once called me a ***t for looking in her direction. I've been deliberately pushed by a drunk ladette who was showing off to her mates and the man who used to work in the next office to me was once beaten up so badly by a bunch of women who wanted his ipad, that he was put in the hospital for three days.

I've seen women outside clubs topless. I've seen pissed up women peeing in the gutter. Do I feel intimidated by these women? Do I walk an extra half mile to avoid such women? Do I feel embarrassed for these women? The answer is yes to all of the above. I have never, however, felt any of those things when I've seen a bunch of women wearing hijab.

So Brillo, stop chanting on about Muslim women being disrespectful to our culture because as you can see from the above, it takes all sorts to make up a culture.

It does, but most have no desire to go from one extreme to the other. At least we know those women do so through choice - there has never been any reason to think otherwise.

There are equally plenty of men who behave like that, which is no more acceptable, but do we see men at the other extreme walking around looking like they are wearing halloween costumes or tents with eyes. Sinister in more ways than one in my opinion.

[DemolitionRed]

Well I don't find it sinister but perhaps I'm just so used to it. Its been going on before I was born and it, in my opinion, is no different to how its always been. I can live with it. You find it difficult to live with but just like we have to accept outwardly slutty behavior from some of our women, so too must we accept women who believe they are being modest.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Well I don't find it sinister but perhaps I'm just so used to it. Its been going on before I was born and it, in my opinion, is no different to how its always been. I can live with it. You find it difficult to live with but just like we have to accept outwardly slutty behavior from some of our women, so too must we accept women who believe they are being modest.

You may be used to it but most Western women aren't. This is a Western country - please enlighten me why we must accept un-Western behaviour towards women?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You may be used to it but most Western women aren't. This is a Western country - please enlighten me why we must accept un-Western behaviour towards women?

There are probably less multi-cultural countries you could move to? Spending your life being mad at a group of people for not living like you do just seems a bit wasted to me. Very un-British too, not to get too patriotic. Have you ever considered it?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

There are probably less multi-cultural countries you could move to? Spending your life being mad at a group of people for not living like you do just seems a bit wasted to me. Very un-British too, not to get too patriotic. Have you ever considered it?

In your dreams!

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

In your dreams!

I just wouldn't complain about the people that lived around me everyday for the rest of my life before considering moving to somewhere else personally.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

I just wouldn't complain about the people that lived around me everyday for the rest of my life before considering moving to somewhere else personally.

Going on ignore now!

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Going on ignore now!

Wow, all year youve been responding to my posts with bizarre senseless replies and all I had to do to stop that was ask you a genuine question

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You may be used to it but most Western women aren't. This is a Western country - please enlighten me why we must accept un-Western behaviour towards women?

A lot of these women are Western women!
We live in a land where women can take their kids to school in their jamas ffs. We can strip off and walk naked around London providing we don't do it with the intention to cause distress, alarm or outrage. There's some BDSM guy about a mile from us who regularly dresses his consensual slaves up as half naked ponies and has them pull him in a carriage to his local pub before tying them up outside and going in for a pint and he does this through a high Muslim populated area.

Like withano says, diversity is what makes Britain great. I love living in such a tolerant nation.