[Firewire]

Just cancel it now

[lewis111]

Originally Posted by supertv247

Mostly it will be 2 each week, which is twice as many as usual. Never mind the fact when they do have a double elimination (because there’s only 6 weeks) it’ll be 4 eliminated in one week....... it’s terrible

Hmm that's not AS bad as one eliminated from each Catagory as I'm sure all the girls could get to at least like top 7 ish

[James]

It's the two-hour shows I can't really be bothered with. Sing-offs would probably make it feel even more drawn out. I guess they've also decided the acts won't have enough time to rehearse sing-off songs.

[supertv247]

Originally Posted by lewis111

Hmm that's not AS bad as one eliminated from each Catagory as I'm sure all the girls could get to at least like top 7 ish

No, if there is a double elimination (which there will be) it WILL be one from each category

[Firewire]

It's absolutely NOT fair that certain categories will not compete against each other until week 5

[lewis111]

Originally Posted by supertv247

No, if there is a double elimination (which there will be) it WILL be one from each category

But what if by the time they have say their 2nd there's only 1 group left which could happen - surely they just eliminate the 2 of the night that got the fewest votes even if it is 2 from the same Catagory?

[lewis111]

Originally Posted by Firewire

It's absolutely NOT fair that certain categories will not compete against each other until week 5

I'm hoping they change it around but it probabaly wouldn't work numbers wise if one Catagory is still number strong and one has lost a few they would always have to go against each other

[James]

The judges don't have a say anymore in who goes, yeah?

[Daniel-X]

Sounds horrific

[Headie]

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by James

The judges don't have a say anymore in who goes, yeah?

When you put it like that it does seem to take away the difference that made X Factor unique to the "Idol" shows back when it started.

[supertv247]

Originally Posted by lewis111

But what if by the time they have say their 2nd there's only 1 group left which could happen - surely they just eliminate the 2 of the night that got the fewest votes even if it is 2 from the same Catagory?

The double will probably happen in week 2 (I’m assuming not week one straight after we just voted 4 acts in) so there will be 3 acts in one category an 4 in the other each night. Then another 1 will leave from each?

[Jack_]

This is...the worst format they could've chosen axing the sing-off is CRIMINAL* cause it's the best part of the weekend, pitting two categories against one another is completely unfair, forcing one act to leave each category on occasion (a la The Voice, which is one of the many reasons why it ****ing sucks) is bogus because if all acts in a category are crap, they're crap. What on earth have they done? It's official, it's worse than 2015.

*Talking of Idol, I'm pretty sure the legal case that was brought against The X Factor in its early days determined that the two formats were distinct because of the sing-off (and the category divisions). Hope Simon Fuller is on the phone to his lawyers as we speak tbh xx

[Ross.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

This is...the worst format they could've chosen axing the sing-off is CRIMINAL* cause it's the best part of the weekend, pitting two categories against one another is completely unfair, forcing one act to leave each category on occasion (a la The Voice, which is one of the many reasons why it ****ing sucks) is bogus because if all acts in a category are crap, they're crap. What on earth have they done? It's official, it's worse than 2015.

*Talking of Idol, I'm pretty sure the legal case that was brought against The X Factor in its early days determined that the two formats were distinct because of the sing-off (and the category divisions). Hope Simon Fuller is on the phone to his lawyers as we speak tbh xx

I love you

[Jack_]

A great group of finalists completely wasted as well

The most annoying thing about all of this is that everything about last series was perfect, apart from the finalists they chose. If they'd just looked at last year and gone 'hm, if Judges Houses hadn't been such a disaster maybe the lives would've done better', then we might've had some hope this time around because they've rectified that mistake this weekend. Instead they seem to think it's the actual live shows themselves that were the problem

Put these finalists in last year's series and you have one that's up there with 2008/2010/2012. I'm so gutted

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Ross.

I love you

[Headie]

Originally Posted by Jack_

This is...the worst format they could've chosen axing the sing-off is CRIMINAL* cause it's the best part of the weekend, pitting two categories against one another is completely unfair, forcing one act to leave each category on occasion (a la The Voice, which is one of the many reasons why it ****ing sucks) is bogus because if all acts in a category are crap, they're crap. What on earth have they done? It's official, it's worse than 2015.

*Talking of Idol, I'm pretty sure the legal case that was brought against The X Factor in its early days determined that the two formats were distinct because of the sing-off (and the category divisions). Hope Simon Fuller is on the phone to his lawyers as we speak tbh xx

Wait one per category is leaving each week I thought it was just the two with the lowest votes each week is gone

[Jack_]

From what I understood, if it's two leaving a week (one Saturday and one Sunday), it's whoever has the least votes each night. If it's four in a week (which will have to happen at least once), so two each night - then it'll be one from each category, or else a judge could conceivably lose two acts in one night.

Which is all kinds of unfair. If there's two crap acts in your category, they deserve to go. This is part of the reason why The Voice is so ****, because they insist[ed] (idk if they still do) on reducing the teams at an equal rate the lives are the worst part of that show and they're literally copying their format...tragic.

[Marsh.]

I don't see why it matters, the point of the show is to dwindle the numbers to one winner.

Does it really matter if, due to some technicality, a rubbish act in one category last 2 weeks longer than an ok act from another category? At the end of the day there is only one winner that will, debatably, be the "best" and most popular?

Do people pay that much attention to rankings apart from 3rd, 2nd and 1st?

[Jack_]

It matters in terms of creating an entertaining and engaging live show format, IMO. There were problems with the lives, absolutely, but the thing that makes X Factor better than The Voice is that you can get to know the acts over ten weeks and become invested in their journeys. 2015 proved that you can't over a shorter length of time, it was rushed, flat, and beyond predictable. This is even worse, how can acts develop when they're culling like four people in one week? It's tragic. Plus, the sing-off is without question the highlight of the weekend, if only for Louis' classic Deadlock dramas (the biggest loss tbh </3)

In terms of what else you said, under this format it is conceivable that one of the favourites could easily be lost in the one-act-from-each-category-leaves week if they have a bad night. Let's say that Grace or Holly has a bad performance and the other girls shine, meanwhile the fodder in the Boys category continue to underperform and would in a regular series be shoe-ins to leave in week 4. The former could end up being eliminated just because of a stupid arbitrary rule about keeping the categories at equal numbers, while the latter get to float on through just because it's completely unfair.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

It matters in terms of creating an entertaining and engaging live show format, IMO. There were problems with the lives, absolutely, but the thing that makes X Factor better than The Voice is that you can get to know the acts over ten weeks and become invested in their journeys. 2015 proved that you can't over a shorter length of time, it was rushed, flat, and beyond predictable. This is even worse, how can acts develop when they're culling like four people in one week? It's tragic. Plus, the sing-off is without question the highlight of the weekend, if only for Louis' classic Deadlock dramas (the biggest loss tbh </3)

In terms of what else you said, under this format it is conceivable that one of the favourites could easily be lost in the one-act-from-each-category-leaves week if they have a bad night. Let's say that Grace or Holly has a bad performance and the other girls shine, meanwhile the fodder in the Boys category continue to underperform and would in a regular series be shoe-ins to leave in week 4. The former could end up being eliminated just because of a stupid arbitrary rule about keeping the categories at equal numbers, while the latter get to float on through just because it's completely unfair.

I was referring more to the second part, about culling the categories equally, as they do at every prior stage of the competition. Culling them quickly so it's over in a shorter time does allow less time for progression and getting familiar with the acts and also for building up fanbases in time for finale week when it's the last head to head.

But, in terms of a girl like Grace getting booted out due to a bad week whilst a mediocre boy floats through happens regardless every single year. Heck, how many times have the judges wilfully made that exact decision during the sing-off/deadlock?

When it comes to that, the problem lies in talentless dreck making it to the live shows at all. The show's standards when it comes to talent needs to improve, no matter the process of eliminating them in the live shows.

However, I still maintain 12th place or 8th place, they're elimination fodder for the only places anyone cares about - 3rd, 2nd and 1st. The rest of them are just "those people eliminated throughout the lives." The order in which that happens is inconsequential IMO.

[LukeB]

Im glad this didnt happen last year because Saara would have not made final </3

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I was referring more to the second part, about culling the categories equally, as they do at every prior stage of the competition. Culling them quickly so it's over in a shorter time does allow less time for progression and getting familiar with the acts and also for building up fanbases in time for finale week when it's the last head to head.

But, in terms of a girl like Grace getting booted out due to a bad week whilst a mediocre boy floats through happens regardless every single year. Heck, how many times have the judges wilfully made that exact decision during the sing-off/deadlock?

When it comes to that, the problem lies in talentless dreck making it to the live shows at all. The show's standards when it comes to talent needs to improve, no matter the process of eliminating them in the live shows.

However, I still maintain 12th place or 8th place, they're elimination fodder for the only places anyone cares about - 3rd, 2nd and 1st. The rest of them are just "those people eliminated throughout the lives." The order in which that happens is inconsequential IMO.

I see the point you're making (and I definitely agree re. putting fodder through to the lives in the first place, though I think this is the best bunch of finalists for a while) but my use of Grace and Holly as examples was less about them being culled over dull boys a la any other year, and more just because they're the favourites, you could swap them for whoever you like really - the same point would still apply. You could lose the favourites to fodder in any category, just because of a rule whereby someone from each category must leave. What if the three favourites were in one category? It's nonsense.

My main issue with this though lies in not being able to become invested in the acts over a lengthy period of time. The live shows are my absolute favourite part of X Factor and their insistence on reducing them for the second time in three years, and this time axing my actual favourite part (the sing-off), is so frustrating. They got almost everything right last year and this series was going so well, it's such a shame.

[lewis111]

In regards to "what if three favourites were in one Catagory" and the whole one leaves from each Catagory thing

Every single one of the girls is ahead of every single one of the boys in the betting odds (and almost overs too) in the odds
So say week 1 they done 4 eliminations - we could be loosing Rai-Elle who may get like the 5th most votes and keep 2 boys who got like 8/9th most votes and thus isn't a vey unlikely scenario

Regardless of wether you like less weeks or not In live tbis is clearly an unfair format that takes away from what made the X factor more interesting

[supertv247]

Originally Posted by Jack_

A great group of finalists completely wasted as well

The most annoying thing about all of this is that everything about last series was perfect, apart from the finalists they chose. If they'd just looked at last year and gone 'hm, if Judges Houses hadn't been such a disaster maybe the lives would've done better', then we might've had some hope this time around because they've rectified that mistake this weekend. Instead they seem to think it's the actual live shows themselves that were the problem

Put these finalists in last year's series and you have one that's up there with 2008/2010/2012. I'm so gutted

I COMPLETELY agree with everything you’ve said. Judges Houses ruined last series (for the best part) and that was all they had to correct this year. And they technically did! The final 12 are the best in a while AND they’re even making the public happier by giving us 4 acts we choose ourselves. Now put this on a normal 10 week format and it would be the best live shows since 2012. Instead we’re getting an absolute car crash of a mess...

Acts like Alexandra, Rebecca Ferguson, James, Little Mix, Fleur East and, most notably, Saara were not winners or even near that at the beginning of their own live shows yet because of the format they managed to grow and make the final and some of them did manage to win. None of them would’ve won on a format like this.

Louisa was a shoe in for the win in 2015, and because there were so little shows, it was all so predictable. We didn’t really get to know the acts as well as usual (which is partly why I believe she hasn’t been that successful since)