[Wizard.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

And some nut jobs confess to the crime when they didn't actually do it. The law doesn't take a confession as truth without full evidence to back up that confession.

There's been a recent re-opening of the Megan and Jossie Russel murders. Michael Stone, the convicted killer has been behind bars in a high security prison for 21 years but recently another prisoner, Levi Bellfield started telling other prisoners he did it. Its highly likely that Bellfield didn't do it but why would he admit to such a thing. Insanity perhaps?

Then again, maybe Michael Stone, one of the most hated men in Britain, will turn out to be an innocent man.

If they confess to something as big as serial killing or child killing then they deserve whatever punishment suitable people aren’t psychics to know that they’re lying. If they can be jailed for confessing they can receive the death penalty too.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Mariah Christmas

If they confess to something as big as serial killing or child killing then they deserve whatever punishment suitable people aren’t psychics to know that they’re lying. If they can be jailed for confessing they can receive the death penalty too.

So you'd kill someone based on the fact they're insane and don't know what they're confessing to?

See, this is now exactly why I'm against it. The waters are getting murky now and the line blurring.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Mariah Christmas

The point is the statement that the punishment makes.

And yes I would have no problem killing someone who was a terrorist about to carry out an attack on my home country or someone breaking into my house threatening my family. Yes it probably better to try and debilitate them but when faced in that situation I'm sure you wouldn't cry if you killed them in self-defence.

That's totally different. Its called self defense.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I prefer to look at the issue another way.

Do you consider human life to be precious. Do you want to do everything possible in terms of health care etc, to both improve life expectancy and quality of life

or ....

do you not put a value on life like the murderous bastards that commit these crimes

The 2 do not reconcile, you do not fight bad with more bad

We can't as a nation promote excellent health care and respect for life on the one hand, and then kill those we do not deem worthy of life on the other.

[Tom4784]

Killing is the easy path and the easy path is rarely the right path.

It's easy to be bloodthirsty and fight fire with fire, it takes strength of character and a strong moral fibre to do what's right and capital punishment just isn't right.

[AnnieK]

Personally, I don't agree with capital punishment but what I do believe is prison should not be an easy time, 23 hour lock down, hard labour and no luxuries. Prison is not a deterrent any more and it should be

[Wizard.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Yeah I've heard a lot too.

Where in Manchester are you?

Salford you?

[Wizard.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Personally, I don't agree with capital punishment but what I do believe is prison should not be an easy time, 23 hour lock down, hard labour and no luxuries. Prison is not a deterrent any more and it should be

I agree but the UN and their human rights laws wouldn’t allow it.

[AnnieK]

Work in Swinton and from salford. Live south manchester now but will always be salfordian

[Wizard.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Work in Swinton and from salford. Live south manchester now but will always be salfordian

Oh I go Swinton quite a lot. I’m from down south but have lived here nearly 3 years.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I prefer to look at the issue another way.

Do you consider human life to be precious. Do you want to do everything possible in terms of health care etc, to both improve life expectancy and quality of life

or ....

do you not put a value on life like the murderous bastards that commit these crimes

The 2 do not reconcile, you do not fight bad with more bad

We can't as a nation promote excellent health care and respect for life on the one hand, and then kill those we do not deem worthy of life on the other.

If I'd been thinking yes to this issue,which as I said earlier I'm not.

Your post would have helped sway me to think again and then vote no to it.

Really well presented bitontheslide.

[Kazanne]

Yes where it is proven beyond any doubt that the murder was premeditated .child killers most definitely.but I would much prefer LIFE in jail,but it rarely happens so I went for yes,IF murderers were given LIFE that would be better and make sure it's a hard life.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You can call it strength of character and moral fibre all you like if it makes you feel better, how boringly sanctimonious does that sound - others may call it self-indulgence and wallowing in one’s sense of self-righteousness.

Following the crowd and adopting the will of others so as to be seen as doing the right thing and fitting in is not strong it is weak.

A yes from me!

Fitting in?

Or simply, if we're punishing someone for committing murder it would be highly hypocritical and incongruous to then murder them and somehow convince yourself you're any better.

[Wizard.]

Originally Posted by Mariah_Carey

Fitting in?

Or simply, if we're punishing someone for committing murder it would be highly hypocritical and incongruous to then murder them and somehow convince yourself you're any better.

How is killing a murderer classed as “murder”? It’s called justice!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Mariah Christmas

How is killing a murderer classed as “murder”? It’s called justice!

The murderer might have killed someone in retaliation for something they see as punishable, maybe even a murder they have also committed, and therefore call it "justice". Do you see how this works?

Murder is the premeditated killing of someone. How is it anything else?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Mariah_Carey

Fitting in?

Or simply, if we're punishing someone for committing murder it would be highly hypocritical and incongruous to then murder them and somehow convince yourself you're any better.

It’s different and it’s better. Being born human doesn’t make someone human in a way that counts. Some so-called humans are just animals.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It’s different and it’s better. Being born human doesn’t make someone human in a way that counts. Some so-called humans are just animals.

In English?

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

We must be better than those we judge in a court of law, I don't see murdering those we find guilty very just.

Murdering someone that's murdered someone else is stupid, backwards and below us. Why should we lower ourselves to support or commit the same acts we condemn people for in the first place?

Would you feel the same if they murdered the person you love most? Their life over for good, and your life probably ruined, and the person that killed them would get about 12 years, three good meals a day, counselling, learning new skills, sky TV, games and other distractions and then get out to carry on with their life which could last for many more years while your loved one lies rotting.
I think life should MEAN life, if CP isn't carried out.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

Would you feel the same if they murdered the person you love most? Their life over for good, and your life probably ruined, and the person that killed them would get about 12 years, three good meals a day, counselling, learning new skills, sky TV, games and other distractions and then get out to carry on with their life which could last for many more years while your loved one lies rotting.
I think life should MEAN life, if CP isn't carried out.

Well that's neither here nor there.

There's a reason a jury isn't made up of people emotionally invested in the crime that was committed.

[_baileys_]

i am all for severe punishments prisons are too soft - there is no 'fear' of prison to criminals it is more of a holiday - i would bring back hard labour and dark ages style cells too PC & human rights should go out the window when you commit horrendous crimes

[jet]

Originally Posted by Mariah_Carey

Well that's neither here nor there.

There's a reason a jury isn't made up of people emotionally invested in the crime that was committed.

Oh I didn't realise this thread was only limited to the jury's perspective.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

Oh I didn't realise this thread was only limited to the jury's perspective.

We're discussing capital punishment so how someone is found guilty of a crime in a court of law comes into the discussion. Obviously.

An emotional reaction to the loss of a loved one has bugger all to do with it. We'd all love to grab hold of whoever has hurt a loved one and punish them severely, but is that frame of mind really the one we should be in when making such huge decisions about whether to end a hell of a lot of lives?

Serious question, if all you have for me is rolled eyes don't bother.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

Would you feel the same if they murdered the person you love most? Their life over for good, and your life probably ruined, and the person that killed them would get about 12 years, three good meals a day, counselling, learning new skills, sky TV, games and other distractions and then get out to carry on with their life which could last for many more years while your loved one lies rotting.
I think life should MEAN life, if CP isn't carried out.

You've tried this argument with me before, it didn't work then and it won't work now. You don't know my life and I don't need to cheapen my life experiences just to prove a point.

Like Marsh said, Juries aren't comprised of people with an emotional connection to a crime and this is a topic about the law so emotion should not come into it.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You've tried this argument with me before, it didn't work then and it won't work now. You don't know my life and I don't need to cheapen my life experiences just to prove a point.

Like Marsh said, Juries aren't comprised of people with an emotional connection to a crime and this is a topic about the law so emotion should not come into it.

Emotion shouldn't come into a topic about capital punishment?!!!
It isn't a topic just about the law, it's a topic about how we FEEL about the bringing back of CP. I seen nothing in the opening post that said the thread had to be viewed only from a point of view of the law.
Deflection is your speciality though, as always.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

Emotion shouldn't come into a topic about capital punishment?!!!
It isn't a topic just about the law, it's a topic about how we FEEL about the bringing back of CP. I seen nothing in the opening post that said the thread had to be viewed only from a point of view of the law.
Deflection is your speciality though, as always.

It's not deflection.

Asking him how he'd feel about a loved one being murdered is completely irrelevant and isn't something that should come into the decision making process when it comes to capital punishment. That's just obvious.