[Cherie]

he largest local authorities in England are to be allowed to raise council tax by up to 5.99% next year.
Communities Secretary Sajid Javid said councils would be able to increase core bills by 3% in April without having to hold a referendum, up from 2% now.
Combined with the 3% "precept" for those councils funding social care, it means some bills could rise by up to 5.99% without voters having a say.
Local government leaders have said they are at "financial breaking point".
And the Taxpayers Alliance said it "beggared belief" that tax bills could be allowed to rise at almost twice the current 3.1% rate of CPI inflation.
On Tuesday, the government announced that council tax bills could be increased to help provide extra funding for police in England and Wales.
At the moment, councils in England that fund social care provision - county councils, unitary authorities, metropolitan districts and London boroughs - are allowed to increase bills by a maximum of 4.99%.
Police to get 'extra £450m funding'
What's the deal with council tax increases?
Outlining the provisional local government funding settlement for 2018-19, Mr Javid said the one percentage point increase to 5.99% would give local authorities "the independence they need to help relieve pressure on local services" while "recognising the need to keep spending under control".
Some councils that fund social care directly are expected to implement the maximum 5.99% increase.
The BBC's political correspondent Iain Watson said, if that happened, that would see the average annual council tax bill for a Band D property rise by £95.
However, the size of rises will vary area by area, as council tax bills are made up of several components - depending on the make-up and responsibilities of different bodies.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Nicola would neva

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14

Nicola would neva

just cut services to one bin collection a month?

[Vanessa]

[Oliver_W]

How about they **** off? Councils should find better ways to spend money they already get rather than taking more.

[bitontheslide]

what a joyous time of year. Let's all sing a carol

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

what a joyous time of year. Let's all sing a carol

so the personal tax allowance gets raised by 100.00 but they claw it back via council tax and more people are caught in the net as every household pays it

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Candy Cane

so the personal tax allowance gets raised by 100.00 but they claw it back via council tax and more people are caught in the net as every household pays it

You can claim up to a 100% rebate if you are on a low income.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Candy Cane

so the personal tax allowance gets raised by 100.00 but they claw it back via council tax and more people are caught in the net as every household pays it

Weeell, that's not really true, there are council tax reductions on low income scaling all the way down to paying zero. I didn't pay council tax in England cos we woz so poor when we lived there (two of us and a baby on 25 hours min wage, ugh...).

But yeah... for most working families, a 6% council tax increase will cost more than they'll get from the personal tax allowance increases . Robbing Peter to pay Paul, and all that.

For the vast majority, also, Scotland's 1p tax increase will cost less than a 6% council tax increase. In fact the only people who will be less affected by the council tax increase than the Scottish income tax are the highest earners - because even the highest council tax bands are only 3x the lowest. Meaning the increase for a 10 bed mansion is only approx £200 a year... whereas it's about £65 a year for even the grottiest band A bedsit.

Looking at it quickly... it seems that middle income is once again hit hardest in relation to income (average family home bands - C/D/E) who will pay just under £100 a year extra.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

Weeell, that's not really true, there are council tax reductions on low income scaling all the way down to paying zero. I didn't pay council tax in England cos we woz so poor when we lived there (two of us and a baby on 25 hours min wage, ugh...).

But yeah... for most working families, a 6% council tax increase will cost more than they'll get from the personal tax allowance increases . Robbing Peter to pay Paul, and all that.

For the vast majority, also, Scotland's 1p tax increase will cost less than a 6% council tax increase. In fact the only people who will be less affected by the council tax increase than the Scottish income tax are the highest earners - because even the highest council tax bands are only 3x the lowest. Meaning the increase for a 10 bed mansion is only approx £200 a year... whereas it's about £65 a year for even the grottiest band A bedsit.
Looking at it quickly... it seems that middle income is once again hit hardest in relation to income (average family home bands - C/D/E) who will pay just under £100 a year extra.

Everyone knows there are reductions for people on a low income but even those on UC ESA or JSA have to pay a percentage towards CT now and the rise will no doubt be reflected here.

Nobody gets to pay nothing anymore except a very small percentage of people.

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=Christmas treeza;9745496]Everyone knows there are reductions for people on a low income but even those on UC ESA or JSA have to pay a percentage towards CT now and the rise will no doubt be reflected here.

Nobody gets to pay nothing anymore except a very small percentage of people.[/QUOTE]

This should please you given you were complaining about the PTA being raised?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by NanaChristmas

You can claim up to a 100% rebate if you are on a low income.

I didn't know that!

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14

Nicola would neva

We love our Nic!

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by NanaChristmas

You can claim up to a 100% rebate if you are on a low income.

Really? i didn't know that!

[Kizzy]

[QUOTE=Candy Cane;9745501]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

Everyone knows there are reductions for people on a low income but even those on UC ESA or JSA have to pay a percentage towards CT now and the rise will no doubt be reflected here.

Nobody gets to pay nothing anymore except a very small percentage of people.[/QUOTE]

This should please you given you were complaining about the PTA being raised?

What should please me CT hikes... why's that then?

I'm in favour of income tax rises not council tax.

[waterhog]

the biggest tax of all - is the government and what ever one we have - they are all the same.

put up tax for less service is a delboy deal but only he could convince us it was worth happening and more importantly land on his feet.

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=Christmas treeza;9745509]

Originally Posted by Candy Cane

What should please me CT hikes... why's that then?

I'm in favour of income tax rises not council tax.

your point on the budget thread was that you were not happy with the personal allowance being hiked, the allowance that helps the lowest paid the most...you were hand wringing over where the money would come from to support the services, now you have your answer


Personally i don't mind paying 3 per cent extra for social care as long as that is where it is directed, it is better than raising NI contributions in my opinion where the money just gets wasted on more managers and meetings. That 3 percent extra is what I have a problem with as services will remain the same or be cut..

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Greg-nog!

We love our Nic!

Your services will be cut instead, I would rather pay a bit more to keep what we have got..!

[bitontheslide]

My council have been pretty fair in their increases over the last few years. I don't know anyone that likes paying council tax, but I'm happy to pay the money knowing that the fire service will be there if I need them, that local services are maintained.

When Maggie T first introduced the poll tax, all hell broke loose, and that issue was the one that actually forced her out of power. The first thing that John Major did was introduce the much fairer tax that we still have today.

Want to grumble, but really, I can't.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by The_Hogfather

How about they **** off? Councils should find better ways to spend money they already get rather than taking more.

Local councils are being funded less and less by central government. I work within a sector of the NHS that is broadly involved with MASH ((Multi-Agency Safeguarding Hub) and from where I'm sitting, things are looking more and more bleak, especially for social services because the budgets are now so ludicrously tight.

They can only spend according to their cloth and there's not much of that at the moment. The problem here is, local councils are going to take the flack for this deliberately mean central government decision. This really is central government passing the buck.

[Kizzy]

[QUOTE=Candy Cane;9745524]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

your point on the budget thread was that you were not happy with the personal allowance being hiked, the allowance that helps the lowest paid the most...you were hand wringing over where the money would come from to support the services, now you have your answer


Personally i don't mind paying 3 per cent extra for social care as long as that is where it is directed, it is better than raising NI contributions in my opinion where the money just gets wasted on more managers and meetings. That 3 percent extra is what I have a problem with as services will remain the same or be cut..

Can you ever not just comment without the face palming and hand wringing mockery cherie?...
It's getting really boring.

It is seen as an answer but in my opinion it's a crap answer, I would prefer it to come from income tax as I stated in the budget thread.

How would CT have a very specific useful purpose but a raise in NI or income tax be 'wasted'?

The way I prefer sounds similar to Scotlands system according to TS and he sounds happy enough with it so what's your issue?

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=Christmas treeza;9746516]

Originally Posted by Candy Cane

Can you ever not just comment without the face palming and hand wringing mockery cherie?...
It's getting really boring.

It is seen as an answer but in my opinion it's a crap answer, I would prefer it to come from income tax as I stated in the budget thread.

How would CT have a very specific useful purpose but a raise in NI or income tax be 'wasted'?

The way I prefer sounds similar to Scotlands system according to TS and he sounds happy enough with it so what's your issue?

My issue is tax is tax? At least 3 per cent of council tax is earmarked specifically for social care, as social care provision is managed individually by local councils, what is your issue with that? a 1 per cent rise in income tax might not be earmarked specifically and not given to local councils, so at least this way they are certain to have more funds which has to be a good thing yes?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Candy Cane

My issue is tax is tax? At least 3 per cent of council tax is earmarked specifically for social care, as social care provision is managed individually by local councils, what is your issue with that? a 1 per cent rise in income tax might not be earmarked specifically and not given to local councils, so at least this way they are certain to have more funds which has to be a good thing yes?

I think it's assuming a lot to think that a Tory lead government mandated CT increase will lead to an overall increase in council funding... It will almost certainly go hand on hand with a cut in government funding to local councils. I'd say it's very, very optimistic to think that local councils will come out of this better funded.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

I think it's assuming a lot to think that a Tory lead government mandated CT increase will lead to an overall increase in council funding... It will almost certainly go hand on hand with a cut in government funding to local councils. I'd say it's very, very optimistic to think that local councils will come out of this better funded.

its not purely about funding though, it about being progressively more efficient while still providing adequate services. That shouldn't be a one off event every time they are told to, it should be constantly under review as we are paying for it.

I guess that where I am lucky, being in a conservative led council, they don't tend to waste the money

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

I think it's assuming a lot to think that a Tory lead government mandated CT increase will lead to an overall increase in council funding... It will almost certainly go hand on hand with a cut in government funding to local councils. I'd say it's very, very optimistic to think that local councils will come out of this better funded.

if households are paying 3 per cent towards social care in their Council Tax there is a level of accountability for families who have elderly relatives don't you think?, rather than it going into a black hole of income tax