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Old 24-01-2018, 07:15 AM   #26
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To be fair Kizzy I think you're overlooking the fact that he didn't say that being happy is bad... in fact he says it's desireable... but it's also changeable and I personally agree that it's very important to acknowledge that. In the modern world, the message has become confused; the original "pursuit of Happiness" is really talking about the pursuit of contentment, fulfilment, and meaning. There's a common AND VERY DANGEROUS misconception these days that people should be happy all of the time and that something is fundamentally "wrong" if you aren't happy, right now, every moment. But happiness is just one of a whole spectrum of fleeting emotions that comprise human existence... it's NOT a goal, and if you make "happiness" your life goal, you're in for a disappointment... because you'll be happy, then sad, then devastated, then melancholy, then happy again, then devastated, then relieved, then happy, then bored... etc etc. The goal of always being in a permanent state of happiness is unattainable. But people DO seek it, and when it doesn't work out, it causes feeling of failure, depression, anxiety. It causes people to run to the doctor for pills at the first sign of "feeling unhappy" - because there's an idea that normal people "shouldn't feel unhappy" even temporarily.

All he's saying is... seek real meaning elsewhere. Embrace the happy / joyful times when they are there, but accept that life's phases are not always happy ones. You have no idea what's just over the horizon and if you expect it to always be good, happy things then you are screwed... and you also have to accept that you can never have full control over what comes next.


It's also an oversight to suggest that he's "just another individualistic Tory" - as he's a vocal supporter of full Universal Healthcare for all and also in favour of strong benefits systems / large amounts of wealth distribution. Economically speaking he's about as far from Tory as it gets.


The basics of that come into his ideas about accepting the fundamental differences between males and females, too. Like in that video he mentions how, left to their own devices, females are more attracted to healthcare roles than males and males are more attracted to technical roles than women. This is part of creating the overall pay gap, because technical positions are higher paid than healthcare positions. There's a bull**** idea that to address the pay gap, the thing to do is to shuffle everyone up - shift more women into better paid technical roles... that they don't actually want... because then there'll be a smaller wealth gap. Overlooking the fact that men and women just ARE psychologically different and want different careers... and instead of saying "everyone is the same and can do the same jobs"... you can just as easily address the pay gap simply by paying healthcare providers more.
I didn't suggest he had said it was bad just that it was 'pointless'
There is no chance of people being happy all of the time, it's a forgone conclusion that here will be times if not huge swaths of your life where you will be anything but due you a myriad of contributory factors, that said it doesn't necessarily follow that the pursuit of happiness is a flawed concept.

What even is happiness? My happiness it different you yours and his, so how can he comment on it as a general term? He has no clue what my perception of 'happiness' is to render it 'pointless'.

When you are not happy there is always hope,
Please don't attempt to explain things to me as that never ends well, I have stated my view based on the full interview it's my opinion on the topic as I see it 'm not seeking to alter anyones view with my own and I'm not looking for mine analysed either.

I see you suggesting I'm wrong for my view on his ideology, my response to that is I am aware of his views on social policy but my opinion as to his core values stands.

Gender roles are in my opinion governed by socialisation , I don't know which interview you were watching but the onus wasn't on only on 'technical' roles, it was in the main discussing the masculine use of competitiveness and female being 'agreeable'. Your view misses the point entirely.

In you judgement that Women ARE psychologically different, how does that compare in say the case of the BBC female reporters being paid less than their male counterparts? Even though they have fought to get where they are and used all the combativeness the males spoiling for their role used?
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Old 24-01-2018, 07:33 AM   #27
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He wasn’t making a PC response.He was making a point.He was’nt saying ‘I’m offended,You’ve hurt my feelings’ he was highlighting her hypocrisy and she didn’t have an answer.

“A cursory Twitter search revealed a series of messages directed at the presenter calling her a “b***h”, “*******” and “*******ing idiot”.

^ that just seems like everyday Twitter crap that everyone in the spotlight gets.Celebs,presenters,politicians etc
She did have an answer, if you watch the whole video she give's him an answer, there is just a pause.

There is a difference, it's a fundamental difference these trolls are targeting this woman specifically for her questioning this man and his views on gender roles, it is not based on her as a person or her own views and/ or actions.
If we start to be accepting of these attacks to challenges in the setting of a channel four newsroom then how could similar challenges be met outside? in public? Would they be tolerated ...no of course not.
It isn't acceptable for people to threaten and abuse MPs, quite rightly nobody whether in the public eye or not should have to accept that abuse.
It isn't 'twitter crap' downplaying it like this isn't helpful.

She is essentially being bullied for daring to challenge this man by those who decry 'pc' as limiting freedom of speech.... it makes no sense :/
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Old 31-01-2018, 07:23 PM   #28
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Default Jordan Peterson on The Cathy Newman Interview

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Old 31-01-2018, 07:28 PM   #29
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I'll watch this later tonight if I can get settled enough, NM

It's been crazy busy here... and I have a lot of YT to catch up on
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Old 31-01-2018, 07:55 PM   #30
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I'm not going to watch the interview now as I'm kind of watching something Peterson recommends.

I recently finished his book '12 Rules for Life'. A relative gave it to me and I initially recoiled because Peterson is known to be alternative Right and religious... I'm neither. I'm glad I did read it though, I find a lot of his philosophical thinking around reforming capitalism and how in this neoliberal world we search for our individual self's (self realization) through consumerism, quite captivating. There's no doubt that Peterson believes the Right overlaps the Left. For example, both, in these divided ideologies voice opposition to corporate power; both condemn our financial system and both are trying to find a moral compass.

There are a lot of things I don't agree with re his thinking but the way in which he thinks things out make for an inspirational read.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:14 PM   #31
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I'll watch this later tonight if I can get settled enough, NM

It's been crazy busy here... and I have a lot of YT to catch up on
Don't know if you've watched this yet Maru. I watched it last night and thought you may appreciate it.

Peterson and Shapiro having a good old natter.

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Old 01-02-2018, 06:25 PM   #32
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The one thing Peterson can do is talk about the political left and the political right in a positive way. He's not offensive, he's not hostile, unless someone tries to twist his words and not address what he's actually saying, but instead take a small snippet of his dialogue and make an accusation that it meant something else. People use this rhetorical technique all the time. They do it on social media, they do it in interviews and we do it on here. When Peterson reacts, he's doing so because he sees this nonsense as needless devision.

Edited to add: I'm not about to become alternative Right but I'll continue to follow his very interesting views on life.
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:38 PM   #33
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There are reports that someone did a survey and Peterson got like thirty times more abuse than her from her fans and feminists.

Only he didn’t ring the police to try and distract everyone from the content of the interview
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:04 PM   #34
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There are reports that someone did a survey and Peterson got like thirty times more abuse than her from her fans and feminists.

Only he didn’t ring the police to try and distract everyone from the content of the interview
It's the Marxist tactic. When you can't win the debate, play the victim.
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Old 02-02-2018, 01:35 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by DemolitionRed View Post
The one thing Peterson can do is talk about the political left and the political right in a positive way. He's not offensive, he's not hostile, unless someone tries to twist his words and not address what he's actually saying, but instead take a small snippet of his dialogue and make an accusation that it meant something else. People use this rhetorical technique all the time. They do it on social media, they do it in interviews and we do it on here. When Peterson reacts, he's doing so because he sees this nonsense as needless devision.

Edited to add: I'm not about to become alternative Right but I'll continue to follow his very interesting views on life.
He's not Alt-right. He dislikes the alt-right as much as he does the progressive left.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:56 AM   #36
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He's not Alt-right. He dislikes the alt-right as much as he does the progressive left.
Regressive left, I am starting to believe.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:38 PM   #37
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He's not Alt-right. He dislikes the alt-right as much as he does the progressive left.
Try reading his book. He's a confessed anti far left and embraces a lot of alternative right ideology. That's not far right, its alternative right.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:46 PM   #38
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He doesn't dislike the progressive Left!! Progressive left come under the same umbrella as social democrats and social liberals.

"It's the Marxist tactic. When you can't win the debate, play the victim." Its this sort of comment that Peterson would rip you a new one for. You clearly don't understand how this man thinks.
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Old 03-02-2018, 04:33 AM   #39
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I had watched this before your clip, it goes into a bit more detail (psychoanalysis) of how the interview went (in his eyes), so I thought I would include it here.

Youtube video
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I do think because he is a psychologist, he had a huge advantage over her in turns of tuning into what she was saying and why she was saying it.

I do agree with the video, that the interview was her tossing out positions to him that he didn't actually hold in order to trick him into defending it. That happens a lot in the news media. They are attempting to generate controversy, not get to the actual facts... but people looking for controversy in Peterson because they hear things like "alt-right" "white supremacist", they're not filtering for a difference in opinion, they are waiting to see if he will become defensive and lose his composure (does he have anything to hide?, etc)

Also, clean your room!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf View Post
Don't know if you've watched this yet Maru. I watched it last night and thought you may appreciate it.

Peterson and Shapiro having a good old natter.

Youtube video
Click to view this video on Youtube

This is quite good. I did all the way through and it covers a variety of topics. The discussion over theology was fascinating.

Honestly, I love Rubin's chats because they're just so unplanned. You don't really know much of what they end up talking about by the end, it's like watching a rather normal conversation unfold between two people.
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