[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by luvjustin

You mean she wanted to take advantage of the mentally ill.

I would argue that most paid therapy is this tbh.

My pain clinic keeps trying to get me to go to new therapy...to mentally deal with the pain I am in. As if ****ing thinking it away will make it go away. its stupid

[Bones]

Ann is Queen.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by luvjustin

You mean she wanted to take advantage of the mentally ill.

This as well tbh. Conversion therapy serves no other purpose than to promote an anti-gay agenda and she used other people's suffering for that end. I could give her the benefit of the doubt that she just didn't know enough about it but given her knowledge and intelligence I'd be very surprised.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I would argue that most paid therapy is this tbh.

My pain clinic keeps trying to get me to go to new therapy...to mentally deal with the pain I am in. As if ****ing thinking it away will make it go away. its stupid

That's different though, The point in that therapy would be to help you deal with the pain and that's not what the aim of conversion therapy is. Psychological therapy for people struggling with their sexuality could be good for them but that's not conversion therapy.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

That's different though, The point in that therapy would be to help you deal with the pain and that's not what the aim of conversion therapy is. Psychological therapy for people struggling with their sexuality could be good for them but that's not conversion therapy.

Oh yes, I am not comparing conversion therapy to this stupid therapy i am being offered just saying that basically all paid therapy is taking advantage of the (physically or mentally) ill tbh

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Oh yes, I am not comparing conversion therapy to this stupid therapy i am being offered just saying that basically all paid therapy is taking advantage of the (physically or mentally) ill tbh

Oh right well yeah I suppose it is. Although it's not really a bad thing if it helps

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Oh right well yeah I suppose it is. Although it's not really a bad thing if it helps

Honestly think thats what Ann was referring to, particularly in reference to her time working for the Samaritans, critical point of care .... that by the way is genuinely showing care for every human being .... i don't see many threads saying how commendable that is

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Honestly think thats what Ann was referring to, particularly in reference to her time working for the Samaritans, critical point of care .... that by the way is genuinely showing care for every human being .... i don't see many threads saying how commendable that is

I wasn't referring to conversion therapy with that comment btw ^ it's the opposite of helpful, and if Ann had genuinely good intent then it'd require not having knowledge of it and I just find that really hard to believe... but yes it could be possible. I'm sure she's done good elsewhere with her Samaritan work etc and she's not all bad but she's not all good either and I can't get on board with defending this sorry, promoting conversion therapy knowingly of what the reality of it is and what the dangers are is indefensible imo.

[letmein]

Originally Posted by Smithy

It has literally been a thing since the 1920’s, it’s all well and good telling others to read up about it, maybe you should too....



Like Reece said, her views are outdated, it’s a generational so no doubt a couple of decades from now people will look back at it in horror in a similar way to slavery (and I’m not comparing those two btw, I’m just saying people will look back in a “wow can you believe that actually used to happen” kind of way)

Oh, stop with that nonsense already.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marches

Stop trying to use housemate conversion therapy on Ann fans

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I found it really odd how this managed to stay on the hush until a few days before the final, when there have been a few people constantly going on about her voting record. Good timing for it to surface now. Anyway

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/co...glad-to-be-gay

Is what she actually said on it all.

You can't 'help' someone who is unhappy with being gay by conning them into believing that they can change what gender they love. I think the infertility argument as well as the Transgender arguments are stupid as well. Infertility can be treated, it's a medical condition as is Gender Dysmorphia.

I bet there's few LGBT people in this world who haven't at some point wished they were straight because life is easier when you don't have to worry about the ramifications of being open about your sexuality with the wrong person, it's easier not to deal with the bull**** that anyone who isn't hetero has to face but that doesn't mean that we should support the psychological trauma and self hatred that comes with conversion therapy, I don't care how soft and fluffy Ann makes it seem in her article. The reality of conversion therapy is completely ****ed up as is anyone who believes it's acceptable. Sexuality can not be changed, conversion therapy only exposes fragile people to more psychological trauma as it teaches them to that who they are is wrong, these people need to be taught acceptance for who they love, that's the only way to be happy.

To damage someone so much that they falsely believe they are straight is a ticking timebomb waiting to happen.

[GoldHeart]

If you want to open a can of worms and get really deep into it , why don't we talk about how EFFED up it is that SHOCK therapy existed for anyone and everyone that experienced depression, mental health and stress .

The people in "white coats" thought this was the answer to anyone who didn't conform with the norm of the backwards society back then.

And just remember it doesn't just take 1 person to make these decisions for so called therapy .

[camertone]

Ann hates everyone who is different from her and has no empathy for others. Her voting record is awful.

Dissing Meghan Markle is another example. Seems like everyone already forgot about that.

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Thanks for posting that link Vicky. Again Ann states things clearly. If someone is reaching out to doctors for help, we should treat them. She is saying that we shouldn't turn away someone in mental turmoil. Not the same thing as some wish to imply at all.

And yet... When India made the point that people who were trans and couldn't get the medical procedure that helps them become physically what they know they are internally... and often times it cause mental turmoil leading to suicide... Ann argued that others medical procedures are more prevalent. Hmmm.. seems to me a bit of an oxymoron.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I wasn't referring to conversion therapy with that comment btw ^ it's the opposite of helpful, and if Ann had genuinely good intent then it'd require not having knowledge of it and I just find that really hard to believe... but yes it could be possible. I'm sure she's done good elsewhere with her Samaritan work etc and she's not all bad but she's not all good either and I can't get on board with defending this sorry, promoting conversion therapy knowingly of what the reality of it is and what the dangers are is indefensible imo.

...yeah I agree, Jamie...obviously she can be a caring person as well, we all have many aspects to us which makes us not ‘extremes’...and some like Amanda, can just ‘overlook’ certain opinions which is fine also, to focus on the ‘good’ in people etc, especially in the context of spending time with people in the house..but in doing that, you can’t separate that person from their opinions of what they believe in because what they believe in is equally very much them as well, people are their opinions in that those opinions are a representative of them..their opinions is how they express themselves verbally...for me there are things with Ann that just cannot be defended no matter which old way it’s flipped or looked at...I mean, the alleged sexual assault charges of Harvey Weinstein as well../that conversation...actually it was Amanda’s opinion with that as well...the victim blaming of saying one of the females should have said or she didn’t understand why they hadn’t said, no sorry darling, it’s just not worth getting the part... and Ann agreeing it had been a choice...sexual assault is a ‘choice’, then...?...Hmmmm, interesting...and with conversion therapy and her ‘thoughtfulness’ there, should we go back then to thinking about chemical castration as well...how far can ‘old fashioned’ be felt an excuse or a reason or etc....there are some things, some opinions with Ann that are very difficult to look beyond because those opinions are as much a reflection of her as any of the ‘good stuff’, so equally cannot be ignored...

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Mokka

And yet... When India made the point that people who were trans and couldn't get the medical procedure that helps them become physically what they know they are internally... and often times it cause mental turmoil leading to suicide... Ann argued that others medical procedures are more prevalent. Hmmm.. seems to me a bit of an oxymoron.

That's a good point I never even thought about that, she doesn't want people to have to pay to treat those with a genuine disorder... but line the gays up for conversion therapy! Because being transsexual might not be as serious as having cancer but being gay sure is? (and I'd assume it could actually end up being a greater burden on the NHS in terms of money and time/resources if it was available and commonly seen as something that could be helpful which is how she's tried to position it so at best she's a hypocrite.)
She also said in the article that it could help gay men who want to father children and get married yet she apposes adoption and marriage for gay people (and ignores the fact gay people can have children naturally anyway... as well as ignoring lesbians by putting the focus on fathering, which is very interesting). Her pretext of wanting to 'help' these people is ridiculous, the whole article is twisted actually.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

That's a good point I never even thought about that, she doesn't want people to have to pay to treat those with a genuine disorder... but line the gays up for conversion therapy! Because being transsexual might not be as serious as having cancer but being gay sure is? (and I'd assume it could actually end up being a greater burden on the NHS in terms of money and time/resources if it was available and commonly seen as something that could be helpful which is how she's tried to position it so at best she's a hypocrite.)
She also said in the article that it could help gay men who want to father children and get married yet she apposes adoption and marriage for gay people (and ignores the fact gay people can have children naturally anyway... as well as ignoring lesbians by putting the focus on fathering, which is very interesting). Her pretext of wanting to 'help' these people is ridiculous, the whole article is twisted actually.

in 2012 the NHS wasn't in the crisis it is now, and also I presume the number of transgender operations rises year on year, it would be good to see the figures

[Ellen]

She believes that people are entitled to get help if they have problems and that should also be afforded to gay people as well, at the time someone who was struggling with been gay or didnt want to be gay was not been given any help. When she worked at Samaritans they did not promote 'it is ok to be gay' to someone who hated or didnt want to be gay. That is why she agreed if gay people were struggling then they should have therapy like everybody else.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Cherie

in 2012 the NHS wasn't in the crisis it is now, and also I presume the number of transgender operations rises year on year, it would be good to see the figures

Possibly, I'm not sure tbh, although the number of transsexual people is still very small overall. I hadn't really considered that changes with NHS finances might be the reason for her difference of opinions between the two, I can't remember if she said her views on transsexual's operations was specifically because of the NHS crisis or if it was a more general thing of 'there's more serious issues to deal with'. I got the impression she was against it being paid for with public money on principle rather than being solely down to the current state of the NHS. I'm just guessing though I could be wrong about that.

Originally Posted by Ellen

She believes that people are entitled to get help if they have problems and that should also be afforded to gay people as well, at the time someone who was struggling with been gay or didnt want to be gay was not been given any help. When she worked at Samaritans they did not promote 'it is ok to be gay' to someone who hated or didnt want to be gay. That is why she agreed if gay people were struggling then they should have therapy like everybody else.

Conversion therapy doesn't help it damages the person further, this is the point, she's promoting something that actually harms people under the guise of being helpful. It has 'therapy' in it's name but it isn't therapy. Actual therapy that helps someone deal with their struggle could of course be beneficial. Conversion therapy isn't that.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Possibly, I'm not sure tbh, although the number of transsexual people is still very small overall. I hadn't really considered that changes with NHS finances might be the reason for her difference of opinions between the two, I can't remember if she said her views on transsexual's operations was specifically because of the NHS crisis or if it was a more general thing of 'there's more serious issues to deal with'. I got the impression she was against it being paid for with public money on principle rather than being solely down to the current state of the NHS. I'm just guessing though I could be wrong about that.



Conversion therapy doesn't help it damages the person further, this is the point, she's promoting something that actually harms people under the guise of being helpful. It has 'therapy' in it's name but it isn't therapy. Actual therapy that helps someone deal with their struggle could of course be beneficial. Conversion therapy isn't that.

Maybe Ann didn't know this at that time afterall she isn't a doctor,she probably thought it was helpful,maybe she thinks differently now this is the thing ,we DON'T know,unless she is questioned on it,people do change their minds on things, even so all this is way in the past,it doesn't happen now,so don't know what people want to happen.

[Ellen]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Possibly, I'm not sure tbh, although the number of transsexual people is still very small overall. I hadn't really considered that changes with NHS finances might be the reason for her difference of opinions between the two, I can't remember if she said her views on transsexual's operations was specifically because of the NHS crisis or if it was a more general thing of 'there's more serious issues to deal with'. I got the impression she was against it being paid for with public money on principle rather than being solely down to the current state of the NHS. I'm just guessing though I could be wrong about that.



Conversion therapy doesn't help it damages the person further, this is the point, she's promoting something that actually harms people under the guise of being helpful. It has 'therapy' in it's name but it isn't therapy. Actual therapy that helps someone deal with their struggle could of course be beneficial. Conversion therapy isn't that.

I think she more promote's the idea that gay people should receive help if they ask for it.
Things have changed since then but i still think she would agree that anybody asking for help should receive it.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Maybe Ann didn't know this at that time afterall she isn't a doctor,she probably thought it was helpful,maybe she thinks differently now this is the thing ,we DON'T know,unless she is questioned on it,people do change their minds on things, even so all this is way in the past,it doesn't happen now,so don't know what people want to happen.

I hope that's the case Kaz, I did say earlier on tbf that she could be unaware, I just find it hard to believe that's all given who she is and that she would write an article on it being uninformed without looking into it, but yes it could be true.
I don't want anything to happen, I'm just pointing out why I believe her to be wrong on this because it's something I feel strongly about.

Originally Posted by Ellen

I think she more promote's the idea that gay people should receive help if they ask for it.
Things have changed since then but i still think she would agree that anybody asking for help should receive it.

No, she specifically endorses conversion therapy for them and that doesn't help them. Yes they should receive help but that's not what conversion therapy does.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I'm surprised tbh, even with her views she's still an intelligent woman and just a small amount of knowledge of/research into conversion therapy will show that it's not only useless but also can be pretty damaging.. If somebody wants to have conversion therapy then it means their issues with their sexuality are so deep that they'll very likely only be damaged further by having it, it's actually quite cruel to those people to encourage it.

Well said Jamie.
It is cruel in the end,you are right.
It's worrying that anyone elected to Parliament would advocate such views as this.
More worrying to me is others supporting it and her view too.

As you pointed out thankfully,there is near a fair bit of contradiction in other her long held views,and this issue too.

[jaxie]

Ann was speaking out on behalf of someone else who wanted to have this therapy and wasn't allowed. She wasn't supporting it personally, she was supporting his right, which is really different matter. Perhaps he needs to do it to convince himself it does not work, sometimes it's hard to be in someone elses head. As with many things to do with Ann, some people pick up a sentence and see black and white and ignore the grey area of what she really said.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well said Jamie.
It is cruel in the end,you are right.
It's worrying that anyone elected to Parliament would advocate such views as this.
More worrying to me is others supporting it and her view too.

As you pointed out thankfully,there is near a fair bit of contradiction in other her long held views,and this issue too.

Reminder, Ann has been retired for 8 years now. She was retired when she wrote that article.

[Paula D]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Ann was speaking out on behalf of someone else who wanted to have this therapy and wasn't allowed. She wasn't supporting it personally, she was supporting his right, which is really different matter. Perhaps he needs to do it to convince himself it does not work, sometimes it's hard to be in someone elses head. As with many things to do with Ann, some people pick up a sentence and see black and white and ignore the grey area of what she really said.

People with their own agenda don't read articles, they just read one-liners off Twitter or Facebook and run with that.

So much easier to get outraged over a soundbite you see.