[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I clicked the wrong option but I agree with that.

I also think that terms like 'Snowflake', using leftie (or loony left) or rightie or whatever as an insult, remoaner etc should be infractable offenses, I read a good point the other day (maybe a few weeks back) that terms like 'cat lady' are infractable offenses but these typically aren't I also think these should be infractable too since they only serve as an insult.

I made this point in the CBB forum when India was still the main talking point but I don't think accusing a forum member of something (Hypocrisy, racism or, in the case of CBB, Transphobia, etc) should be considered an insult unless it's something among the lines of 'You're a racist wanker' etc. If someone says 'well, I think that view is sexist and here's the reasons why' that should not be considered an insult, it's an argument and one backed up with reasoning.

SO there we are again - you want to be able to infract people who say snowflake or leftie but still want to be able to use far more insulting words such as racist unles it is used in conjunction with a word such as wanker.

Might be fair if it also only applied to those who say something along the lines of leftie wanker. Waste of time when the mods still want to practice double standards.

[Toy Soldier]

Make a separate elite subforum for the cream of the crop and make it that you have to earn your way in there by consistently making insightful posts,and after a while there will be one small but excellent little SD subforum. The promised land, so to speak, where the riff-raff may never tread. Every member there will have mod privileges and the ability to edit each others posts - but will never do so, on a trust based system.

I will obviously be the first member because A) we all know I'd get there quickly anyway and B) I don't really need anyone else to reply to my posts, I can just have discussions on my own...

And then eventually others will reach a high enough level to join me there.

Just a thought.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

SO there we are again - you want to be able to infract people who say snowflake or leftie but still want to be able to use far more insulting words such as racist unles it is used in conjunction with a word such as wanker.

Might be fair if it also only applied to those who say something along the lines of leftie wanker. Waste of time when the mods still want to practice double standards.

Like I said, if someone finds a view racist and they can explain why then it should be allowed because that is adding to the discussion, calling people remoaners and snowflakes only serves to bring a discussion to a screeching halt.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I think the only thing with locked threads, Maru...from my forum experience anyway...is that the thread becomes locked, so silliness can’t continue or whatever reason it has been...but that can then spill into other threads more/ a new thread...because people still want to say.....but the locking didn’t allow them....

Isn't that what suggestions is for? If it's done pretty consistently and frequent enough though, it shouldn't appear to be partial to the average user.

There's no way to end disputes, that's part of the job.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Like I said, if someone finds a view racist and they can explain why then it should be allowed because that is adding to the discussion, calling people remoaners and snowflakes only serves to bring a discussion to a screeching halt.

That is your opinion not fact. So if someone finds someone’s view snowflakey or hard left but give an explanation why that is okay? You are not willing to change your stance one iota. Nothing will change clearly.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So if someone finds someone’s view snowflakey or hard left but give an explanation why that is okay?

There's other words you can use, snowflake is just an insult through and through. It'd be like saying 'you can call people stupid or ugly, just as long as you explain why.'

Thinking that someone's post is racist, in itself, is not an insult, especially if they explain why.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So if someone finds someone’s view snowflakey or hard left but give an explanation why that is okay?

"snowflakey" isn't an opinion though, it's a silly jibe.

What you are basically saying when you say "they are snowflakes!" is;

"In my opinion, those people are being too sensitive"

... And the latter would be totally fine to say. You can see the difference, surely.

[Toy Soldier]

To make a couple of direct comparisons;

"I find this over-sensitive"
"I find this a bit racist"

Both fine.

"You are a snowflake!"
"You are a Nazi!"

... Not fine.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To make a couple of direct comparisons;

"I find this over-sensitive"
"I find this a bit racist"

Both fine.

"You are a snowflake!"
"You are a Nazi!"

... Not fine.

"You are a racist" though...?

I have seen that on the forum I think. My idea of insult I try to keep pretty simple... if I can make someone 0-60 super pissed by saying they are XYZ, then that's a pretty good indicator it will be taken as an insult.

Most people where I come from would be livid if you called them racist. And it's said to bait others to get them to throw a punch in a non-criminal/criminal environment.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To make a couple of direct comparisons;

"I find this over-sensitive"
"I find this a bit racist"

Both fine.

"You are a snowflake!"
"You are a Nazi!"

... Not fine.

Yes, nailed it tbh.

There is a huge difference between using baity terms for people, and actually stating that you find them/the post/whatever a bit oversensitive or something.

I have now changed my mind on the snowflake thing actually. I supported it earlier in the thread but of course you are right...'I think you are being oversensitive on this issue' V 'you are a being a snowflake'...of course the former is much better and more grown up

[Cal.]

I disagree purely because I think it would be hard to implement and VERY subjective depending on the moderator in question at the time. It's not as simple and black and white as normal forum rules. People could be posting things which they deemed perfectly fine and a moderator could take issue with it etc.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Maru

"You are a racist" though...?

I have seen that on the forum I think. My idea of insult I try to keep pretty simple... if I can make someone 0-60 super pissed by saying they are XYZ, then that's a pretty good indicator it will be taken as an insult.

Most people where I come from would be livid if you called them racist. And it's said to bait others to get them to throw a punch in a non-criminal/criminal environment.

I think your post is racist because....fine

Random 'you are racist'. No good.

IMO. I guess again, with this stuff a lot of it is context and personal opinion.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's other words you can use, snowflake is just an insult through and through. It'd be like saying 'you can call people stupid or ugly, just as long as you explain why.'

Thinking that someone's post is racist, in itself, is not an insult, especially if they explain why.

Racist is an insult through and through. It is not for you to state what is and isn’t insulting and that is half the problem. People clearly do find it insulting but you think you know best and can insult people that way despite them not having made any reference to skin colour - you just interpret it in a hysterical way and try to label people based on that premise.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I think your post is racist because....fine

Random 'you are racist'. No good.

IMO. I guess again, with this stuff a lot of it is context and personal opinion.

And that's as far as I'd take it really. I think picking and choosing words is a bad way to go about crafting any policy. It's better to go with context... and I think some need to let up off the moderators if they get it wrong. We're human beings with completely different subjective realities. Perception is not an exact science.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Maru

"You are a racist" though...?

I have seen that on the forum I think. My idea of insult I try to keep pretty simple... if I can make someone 0-60 super pissed by saying they are XYZ, then that's a pretty good indicator it will be taken as an insult.

Most people where I come from would be livid if you called them racist. And it's said to bait others to get them to throw a punch in a non-criminal/criminal environment.

I think I've been guilty of saying it in one thread during a temper tantrum. In general, no, it's not really OK. None of us here know each other well enough to make such a definitive statement.

However, I think quoting something and saying "This is kinda racist", or "I think you're being racist" is quite different from "You ARE A racist".

Mainly because I don't think most people are racist, but I do think pretty much everyone is capable of being racist at times, whether intentionally or not.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think I've been guilty of saying it in one thread during a temper tantrum. In general, no, it's not really OK. None of us here know each other well enough to make such a definitive statement.

However, I think quoting something and saying "This is kinda racist", or "I think you're being racist" is quite different from "You ARE A racist".

Mainly because I don't think most people are racist, but I do think pretty much everyone is capable of being racist at times, whether intentionally or not.

Of course

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cal.

I disagree purely because I think it would be hard to implement and VERY subjective depending on the moderator in question at the time. It's not as simple and black and white as normal forum rules. People could be posting things which they deemed perfectly fine and a moderator could take issue with it etc.

This is something I certainly do agree with. We are dealing with people insulting others based on their narrow interpretation of what they said or think they implied. There is no black and white and will allow some to carry on as usual.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Racist is an insult through and through. It is not for you to state what is and isn’t insulting and that is half the problem. People clearly do find it insulting but you think you know best and can insult people that way despite them not having made any reference to skin colour - you just interpret it in a hysterical way and try to label people based on that premise.

Okay, let's see it from the other perspective, you prevent people from finding things racist and voicing but at the same time if someone's misogynistic or says something about the right then you can't voice your disapproval of what they are saying because if you're going to prevent people from being allowed to say that they believe something is racist then you better believe the same rules will apply to issues you care about as well.

It doesn't work because what you essentially want to do is neuter someone's right to reply, you can use a different word to snowflake and still say the same thing but you can't do the same if you find something racist and if someone finds something racist or sexist or homophobic then why can't they say so as long as it's not a one line response or done as an insult?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think I've been guilty of saying it in one thread during a temper tantrum. In general, no, it's not really OK. None of us here know each other well enough to make such a definitive statement.

However, I think quoting something and saying "This is kinda racist", or "I think you're being racist" is quite different from "You ARE A racist".

Mainly because I don't think most people are racist, but I do think pretty much everyone is capable of being racist at times, whether intentionally or not.

...but then wouldn’t that be making a comment that would have no substance, which is what Vicky is saying that posts should have, they should be well thought out etc..rather than just throwing out labels, whichever way that label was said and attached, that part seems less important...it’s also like the thread Withano made, which is...are we entitled to..?...and Admin might say yeah, you’re entitled to, it’s within the rules ...but then what purpose does it have to further and progress a discussion ...because it would only serve to put on the defensive....defensive is never an equal in discussion, so it doesn’t make for good debate..

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"snowflakey" isn't an opinion though, it's a silly jibe.

What you are basically saying when you say "they are snowflakes!" is;

"In my opinion, those people are being too sensitive"

... And the latter would be totally fine to say. You can see the difference, surely.

Racist may have a valid meaning but is also used as a silly jibe - you honestly think you can say it isn’t.

I have been called racist based on my opposition to mass migration and/or Burkha wearing on many occasions by the very same people who claim it isn’t used to insult or shut-down when it clearly is - long before the flag-waving of the Muslim mother and son who had to wash dishes thread.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Racist may have a valid meaning but is also used as a silly jibe - you honestly think you can say it isn’t.

I have been called racist based on my opposition to mass migration and/or Burkha wearing on many occasions by the very same people who claim it isn’t used to insult or shut-down when it clearly is - long before the flag-waving of the Muslim mother and son who had to wash dishes thread.

While snowflake can ONLY be used as a jibe, it's not a valid comparison.

[Vicky.]

I am closing my own thread as its now quite clear that no matter what we do, we will be in the wrong. I did think that maybe we could sort something out, but it is clear that this is not possible tbh. I don't know what I was thinking making this thread and being optimistic about it all. Also closing as I can see the direction this is now going to go, in exactly the same direction as most other threads.

Moderating is always going to be subjective. And context is important also so no 'set rules' would really work.

So I guess, I will be doing the same as usual, but I may also be reminding people that they need to be ontopic, and also intervening/deleting when appropriate. This will be my last attempt to sort out this section, and tbh, I am sure it won't work either but it has to be tried. If people do feel victimized, so be it. Its the nature of the job really isn't it..

So yeah, closed as its already going the same way as usual, tbh.

People may PM me if they disagree with this being closed, but I am sure most can see exactly why it was.