[Vicky.]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/...tim-hierarchy/

Files have been prepared against 29 individuals (almost all of them are women, and almost all of those doing the compiling are men), including that old hero of the radical lesbian far left, Linda Bellos. When Bellos, who once suggested that Margaret Thatcher intended to gas the working class, is considered too right-wing for the Labour party, you can see what kind of government in waiting we have. The trans army demanded their site be kept secret — ‘please, please, please’ they begged — but these dimbos in dresses didn’t realise that nothing on Facebook stays secret for long. I’ve seen screenshots of their somewhat Stalinist black book. So have lots of the people they call Terfs. The personal details of the people on the list have been published, which may have infringed the Data Protection Act. At the time of writing at least one complaint has been made to the police — by Emma Salmon, the former vice chair of Bexhill and Battle Constituency Labour Party (CLP), who signed that original petition calling for proper all-women shortlists and subsequently found herself on a wanted list. Salmon told me that it’s not just about the technicalities of infringing the Data Protection Act. These dossiers are designed to bully, uh, fraternal Labour party members. She is sick of it: ‘We’ve had serious, perpetual aggression. When we state our point of view we’re told we are Nazis, no better than Hitler. They go absolutely mental.’

But that’s Momentum for you: resolutely male and not above bullying and hounding women who disagree with its views. Last week Momentum published its shortlist of candidates for regional chairs. There were 17 candidates. And 17 of them were men. So there you are, girls — meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Except that sometimes, beneath the hipster beard, he’s wearing a nice frock.

I have been following this closely, I was actually on this list at one stage and they were collecting data about me..even though I am not a ****ing member. The spreadsheet originally featured the womens membership numbers, so clearly someone in the group accessed Labours database to get those.

Labour were supposed to make an official statement a couple of days ago but a few hours before the statement was due, they changed their mind as they spoke to their lawyers. They are breaking the law, and the folders collected on people are ****ing ridiculous. Still Labour does nothing and remains silent. Annoying that they were planning on releasing a statement saying they support self-ID, then their lawyers told them this was breaking the law, so they decided to say nothing at all instead, when they could still have released a statement.

This is not my party anymore. I have noone to vote for. Been feeling this way for a while but this is the last straw.


Editing the op to add in https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/sta...37001689370624 - lost 6 points among women voters as this has came out, and Labour have cemented their stance on 'self-ID'

[LeatherTrumpet]

TB tried to turn them into a centrist party and it worked for a bit, this last hurrah of 70s labour under Corbyn is really the end game. I expect a new party to emerge soon and labour to splinter into obscurity

[Vicky.]

Oh, here is the 'transphobic' crowdfunder by the way. Specifially stating that transpeople with GRCs are fine, just not 'self identified' transpeople, which is clearly ridiculous.

https://www.gofundme.com/fighting-fo...epresentatives

I am not sure I agree with the concept of all woman shortlists in the first place tbh but I did donate to it as this lunacy has to end. And the woman who started it has already taken legal advice and been told its winnable.

[joeysteele]

Whatever is really the story here,since reports have gone to the police,legal advice taken.
Until that process goes through and the full and real details are known that are established legal and right facts.
Then it's time to judge any Parties position and what should be done.

Just as the accusations of sexual harassment related to some in the Con party and others.
It was right for the Cons to say little at all until legal advice was given,and the investigation and process of law as to legal rights were near or were completed.

Labour will act and should do so too as to any proven,solidly substantiated wrongdoing on any issue.
So I will wait now,since legal advice has been taken,also any referrals to police or officialdom is completed.
When absolutely full substantiated facts are in place and them legitimately made known.

As for membership, over half a million members is hardly losing members at all.
Of course,as in all Parties,even much smaller Parties,in Labour and Cons,there are people who may be better not in the Parties as Members.

However,where legality is taken as in issues as in sex scandals,expenses scandal,and this issue possibly too.
I will hold my counsel until full investigate processes have actually deemed what are justifiable facts either way before I'll go into the issue.
It sounds bad,however apart from the expenses scandal, few things end up being proven to be as bad as was originally expected.
So I for one unsurprisingly will wait ,while sharing of course dismay at the content IF it were it to be proven fully substantiated,I stress IF.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Whatever is really the story here,since reports have gone to the police,legal advice taken.
Until that process goes through and the full and real details are known that are established legal and right facts.
Then it's time to judge any Parties position and what should be done.

Just as the accusations of sexual harassment related to some in the Con party and others.
It was right for the Cons to say little at all until legal advice was given,and the investigation and process of law as to legal rights were near or were completed.

Labour will act and should do so too as to any proven,solidly substantiated wrongdoing on any issue.
So I will wait now,since legal advice has been taken,also any referrals to police or officialdom is completed.
When absolutely full substantiated facts are in place and them legitimately made known.

As for membership, over half a million members is hardly losing members at all.
Of course,as in all Parties,even much smaller Parties,in Labour and Cons,there are people who may be better not in the Parties as Members.

However,where legality is taken as in issues as in sex scandals,expenses scandal,and this issue possibly too.
I will hold my counsel until full investigate processes have actually deemed what are justifiable facts either way before I'll go into the issue.
It sounds bad,however apart from the expenses scandal, few things end up being proven to be as bad as was originally expected.
So I for one unsurprisingly will wait ,while sharing of course dismay at the content IF it were it to be proven fully substantiated,I stress IF.

This will be proven to be as bad as suspected. I saw the list, I was on it for a short period of time (possibly until they realised I was not a Labour party member so it was useless collecting data on me to start with)and I also saw the 'evidence files'. The 'evidence file' on me was pathetic, but it was still there. Not sure if I should report it as harassment to the police as that seems a bit..much. I kind of just laughed it off as a bunch of nutters being stupid, I didn't realise that I could actually report it to the police and since looking into it all I do see they have definitely broken the data protection act, and this has actually been led by a Labour Womens Officer..I made a thread on 'her' a while back. Wish Labour had been sensible at the time and stopped a 19 year old boy from applying for the position in the first place..given it stated in the rules that the womens officer must be a woman. Could have avoided all of this rubbish. The only thing he has done for women since gaining the post, is try to get women kicked out of the party!

[Vicky.]

I have undeleted this now because I have decided I am not scared of them anymore (plus, I have deleted all posts that may possibly give them hint of where I live and such )

So..

https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/sta...37001689370624

(Not sure how to do the embedded twitter link things)

Labour are down 6 points among women voters.

Good timing, if this is not related eh? The news is getting out about this, and also Corbyn is going on TV saying that the party totally supports self-ID. Seems women really do not like how the party have decided that any man who says he is a woman is actually a woman. Its insulting really. Self-ID seems to be the hill Labour is willing to die on. Unfortunately. I cannot see much support among the general public AT ALL for this, and apparently they are going to make it into law. Anyone can 'change sex' by filling out a form. Plus the end of sex segregation (this is not about transsexual people, its any person)

https://twitter.com/hashtag/LabourLosingWomen?src=hash

An interesting hashtag to search..hashtag was going before yougov results came out

[Vicky.]

And yes, I do think the language in the spectator article is problematic, but it gets straight to the point.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And yes, I do think the language in the spectator article is problematic, but it gets straight to the point.

Because, people will argue semantics if they can't refute the argument, Vicky. And there is no refuting this...

[LeatherTrumpet]

not many left of center members seem to have posted in this thread

That's odd

[Robertocarlo]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/...tim-hierarchy/




I have been following this closely, I was actually on this list at one stage and they were collecting data about me..even though I am not a ****ing member. The spreadsheet originally featured the womens membership numbers, so clearly someone in the group accessed Labours database to get those.

Labour were supposed to make an official statement a couple of days ago but a few hours before the statement was due, they changed their mind as they spoke to their lawyers. They are breaking the law, and the folders collected on people are ****ing ridiculous. Still Labour does nothing and remains silent. Annoying that they were planning on releasing a statement saying they support self-ID, then their lawyers told them this was breaking the law, so they decided to say nothing at all instead, when they could still have released a statement.

This is not my party anymore. I have noone to vote for. Been feeling this way for a while but this is the last straw.


Editing the op to add in https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/sta...37001689370624 - lost 6 points among women voters as this has came out, and Labour have cemented their stance on 'self-ID'

The problem is though Vicky that if you don't vote then you're letting the Tories in by the backdoor. Why not vote tactically in your area to keep the Tories out seeing all the other Parties, i.e. the Greens and Lib Dems, are far better than a Tory MP at any cost?!

I'm still a Labour Party Member myself, not Momentum I hasten to add seeing I'm labelled a 'Blairite', but I do understand where you're coming from. I hate this Tory/DUP Government and Brexit so would vote any way I can to frustrate them.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Robertocarlo

The problem is though Vicky that if you don't vote then you're letting the Tories in by the backdoor. Why not vote tactically in your area to keep the Tories out seeing all the other Parties, i.e. the Greens and Lib Dems, are far better than a Tory MP at any cost?!

The Tories aren't bad enough to be kept out "at any cost", especially with some of Labour's current ideals.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

The Tories aren't bad enough to be kept out "at any cost", especially with some of Labour's current ideals.

"At any cost" maybe not, but currently I'd say "at most costs" is accurate. Their unwavering march towards full privitisation (for their own profit) combined with their recent general incompetency is a pretty dire situation. Sadly, when it comes to things like the NHS, I don't think people will fully realise what they've lost until its gone. And even then they still won't realise (or admit) that it was deliberately dismantled by Conservative politicians with conflicts of interest.

[Kizzy]

I don't agree with self ID as women, as female yes women no.
If the Labour stance differs from that then that is where we differ ideologically.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't agree with self ID as women, as female yes women no.
If the Labour stance differs from that then that is where we differ ideologically.

How is that not just semantics?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

How is that not just semantics?

pardon?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Robertocarlo

The problem is though Vicky that if you don't vote then you're letting the Tories in by the backdoor. Why not vote tactically in your area to keep the Tories out seeing all the other Parties, i.e. the Greens and Lib Dems, are far better than a Tory MP at any cost?!

The greens and libdems are even worse.

My issue is, I am disabled and the Tories treat the disabled (and poor) absolutely horrendously. So I don't think I could bring myself to vote Tory.

BUT, I cannot vote for a party that will not recognize that a woman is an actual real thing and that we need rights (and spaces). If Labour make 'self ID' into law, thats literally all of womens rights gone in a second, as anyone can declare themselves a woman. The direction labour is going in is not something I want to support, so I cannot vote for them either.

Libdems are also all for 'self-ID. And greens are horrendous and actually refer to women as 'non-men' for ****s sake

I have noone to vote for. Generally I do disagree with Labours stance on a few things but can overlook that because of the other things I agree with. but this is so important to me that I simply cannot overlook it. Women have fought for rights and their own spaces for a hundred years, and labour want to undo it all. Its mental. And surely with Labour dropping in all polls a LOT, and it being mostly women too, Corbyn will see sense. if he does not, then tbh I don't think labour stand a chance at all, and it would be deserved given how stupid they are being.

Seems many women agree too and are not willing to vote for a party than wants to give away their rights.

Also tbh, a party that will do nothing when it is public knowledge that their members, and some of their MPs/womens officers, are literally hunting down other voters for supposed thoughtcrimes and sending them threats and trying to get them kicked out of the party..is not a party for me anyway.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't agree with self ID as women, as female yes women no.
If the Labour stance differs from that then that is where we differ ideologically.

I don't understand this at all?

[Underscore]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

not many left of center members seem to have posted in this thread

That's odd

I don’t support momentum and their ilk

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't understand this at all?

I have no issue with people transitioning from male to female or from female to male.
I don't however feel that it is possible to 'become' a woman or a man due to socialisation factors. So this would rule out for me transitioned peoples sitting in roles specifically reserved for men/women.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I have no issue with people transitioning from male to female or from female to male.
I don't however feel that it is possible to 'become' a woman or a man due to socialisation factors. So this would rule out for me transitioned peoples sitting in roles specifically reserved for men/women.

Ah right, that makes more sense.

I have no issue with people transitioning either

But this is not about transitioned people anyway. Its about any person simply declaring they are the opposite sex and that being accepted, when its clearly false.

If Labours definition of a woman is 'anyone who says they are a woman' this is very very problematic.

[waterhog]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

TB tried to turn them into a centrist party and it worked for a bit, this last hurrah of 70s labour under Corbyn is really the end game. I expect a new party to emerge soon and labour to splinter into obscurity

he was excellent - until the war - people will never forgive this - right or wrong and that is what finished him off.


but he landed on his feet - now keeping the peace

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Ah right, that makes more sense.

I have no issue with people transitioning either

But this is not about transitioned people anyway. Its about any person simply declaring they are the opposite sex and that being accepted, when its clearly false.

If Labours definition of a woman is 'anyone who says they are a woman' this is very very problematic.

It is, very problematic and very wrong.

[Cherie]

Politics in the UK is a mess, there is no party that represents me and I believe it is the same for many, we don't have a choice it's left or right and that's it, the liberals are not to be trusted as they will cosy up with whichever side gets into power if they have a sniff at being in coalition, I have been mocked on here previously for being a centrist but that is the place to be.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Politics in the UK is a mess, there is no party that represents me and I believe it is the same for many, we don't have a choice it's left or right and that's it, the liberals are not to be trusted as they will cosy up with whichever side gets into power if they have a sniff at being in coalition, I have been mocked on here previously for being a centrist but that is the place to be.

Welcome to my world

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Welcome to my world

Sure